Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

[Cadmus]

Look, it's DraQ's list of bullshit again.

For starters Skyrim is, even in its vanilla state, not a bad game while Oblivion was absolutely abominable.

lol what an argument, besides, it's not even true

For all its faults Skyrim looks like a genuine attempt at TES game, rather than terminally bland, generic aRPG with TES label slapped on for marketing reasons.

It's the other way around.

Skyrim looks like there was genuine effort and thought put into it, while Oblivion looks like none of the devs gave a flying fuck about what they were making

You mean, the game looks like some modder actually updated Oblivion? Skyrim is the most low effort shit there is.

Skyrim's gameplay mechanics more or less works and is enjoyable, Oblivion, past few initial levels became a pointless exercise in tedium no matter what you did.

No, what the fuck?

Skyrim has far more overall cohesion, both internal and in terms of preexisting lore consistency.

Which is better and why? Dragonborn killing dragons at lvl 1 or Hero of Kvatch killing Stunted Scamps at lvl 1?

It's the same shit you've been peddling forever now and it still not true.

 

[varangos]

may i ask what skyrim has that makes it superior to oblivion?
they even removed the attribute stats ffs.

 

[Cadmus]

may i ask what skyrim has that makes it superior to oblivion?
they even removed the attribute stats ffs.

they managed to make the faces look marginally better after 5 years of development

 

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

Clearly fluent should tell us his take on the matter.

 

[Hirato]

may i ask what skyrim has that makes it superior to oblivion?
they even removed the attribute stats ffs.

They made it so modders could add jiggle physics.

 

[varangos]

the only good thing that came out of oblivion is nehrim,the only good thing that will come out of skyrim is endereal.
too bad it will be in faxten foyxten and it will take some time for an englsih translation.

 

[Kalon]

they even removed the attribute stats ffs.

Given that Oblivion's level-scaling rendered stats meaningless, they might as well have been removed anyway.

 

[Sjukob]

They made it so modders could add jiggle physics

 

[Hirato]

They made it so modders could add jiggle physics

Those are animation based, the skyrim ones piggyback (hue) on the physics engine

 

[Miner Arobar]

may i ask what skyrim has that makes it superior to oblivion?
they even removed the attribute stats ffs.

Decently well-done open world. Which, in a series which is all about free-form wandering in an open world with well-developed lore background, with quest storylines and the like a bit of an afterthought, is absolutely essential.

I'm happy to accept the removal of attributes and the introduction of perks, or even the truncated and occasionally incomprehensible faction questlines of Skyrim, if it means a gameworld that actually looks like a successor to Morrowind,
instead of a themepark with very remote connections to TES lore.

Some time ago some Codexer (can't recall who, probably DraQ) mentioned one key difference between Morrowind/Skyrim world design and Oblivion absence of world design, which is that in Morrowind and Skyrim, the various races have
specific positions in society: catpeople are thieves or slaves in Morrowind, caravan traders in Skyrim (I'm not sure there is a single city-dwelling Khajiit in Skyrim). Orcs in Skyrim live in their strongholds or work as hired muscle (with the exception
of the librarian). Dunmer are working-class refugees in Riften and Windhelm. And so on. Whereas in Oblivion, just about every city (and cities is all there is - Cyrodiil gets by without agriculture) is a happy mixture of everything. That's the
difference between world design with some thought put into it and world design with no thought put into it at all.

And if you like TES games at all, this is extremely important. Completely vital. If you don't, that's fine - but don't argue that Skyrim isn't miles ahead of Oblivion at what it does.

 

[Hirato]

Whereas in Oblivion, just about every city (and cities is all there is - Cyrodiil gets by without agriculture) is a happy mixture of everything.

While you're not wrong, Oblivion however does have agriculture all over the place - not much in the line of ranches (for mutton and things), but there's fruits and vegetables grown everywhere.
You may be confusing it with Oblivion With Guns, which indeed didn't have any agriculture anywhere.

 

[Miner Arobar]

I did exaggerate a little - Oblivion does have some farms and hamlets outside of the main cities - but still Skyrim does a lot better at creating some illusion of a working economy outside of the cities (mills, mining camps, etc.). For the civilized heartland of the empire, Nibenay is very empty and desolate.

 

[DraQ]

As much as I agree with all the points you made, you have to concede that there are quite many people who actually prefer Oblivion to Skyrim. Because they first played Oblivion and are used to its mechanics, or because they genuinely prefer the overall tone and settings of Oblivion's game world.

Yes. Those people are collectively referred to as "morons".

Just like people who prefer Oblivion to Morrowind or Daggerfall.

Look, it's DraQ's list of bullshit again.

For starters Skyrim is, even in its vanilla state, not a bad game while Oblivion was absolutely abominable.

lol what an argument, besides, it's not even true

For all its faults Skyrim looks like a genuine attempt at TES game, rather than terminally bland, generic aRPG with TES label slapped on for marketing reasons.

It's the other way around.

Skyrim looks like there was genuine effort and thought put into it, while Oblivion looks like none of the devs gave a flying fuck about what they were making

You mean, the game looks like some modder actually updated Oblivion? Skyrim is the most low effort shit there is.

Skyrim's gameplay mechanics more or less works and is enjoyable, Oblivion, past few initial levels became a pointless exercise in tedium no matter what you did.

No, what the fuck?

Skyrim has far more overall cohesion, both internal and in terms of preexisting lore consistency.

Which is better and why? Dragonborn killing dragons at lvl 1 or Hero of Kvatch killing Stunted Scamps at lvl 1?

It's the same shit you've been peddling forever now and it still not true.

QED.

Can you use search or will I really need to explain each point in detail again?

 

[Fowyr]

Hey, I'm tewwible sowwy to interrupt intellectual discussion about two sorts of shit, but does anyone know little thingy about Arena? Is its world really seamless as in Daggerfall or, as I thought previously, its locations are surrounded by procedurally generated territory and don't really overlap? I recently thought about second playthrough, started game, travelled east of Wayrest and noticed that name of territory has changed. I travelled north for 30 or 40 minutes but still was in this area.

 

[DraQ]

Hey, I'm tewwible sowwy to interrupt intellectual discussion about two sorts of shit, but does anyone know little thingy about Arena? Is its world really seamless as in Daggerfall or, as I thought previously, its locations are surrounded by procedurally generated territory and don't really overlap? I recently thought about second playthrough, started game, travelled east of Wayrest and noticed that name of territory has changed. I travelled north for 30 or 40 minutes but still was in this area.

Disjoint, infinite procedurally generated surroundings for each location.

Anyway, Arena is kind of meh being very proto-TES, with none of the series strengths established yet.

 

[Drax]

Can you use search or will I really need to explain each point in detail again?

Do it, it's a boring monday, nothing interesting to read and fuck if I'm gonna work at work.

 

[DraQ]

I'm happy to accept the removal of attributes and the introduction of perks, or even the truncated and occasionally incomprehensible faction questlines of Skyrim, if it means a gameworld that actually looks like a successor to Morrowind,
instead of a themepark with very remote connections to TES lore.

"Happy" is a bit much, Skyrim could have had both and be better for it, but it's Oblivion that butchered the attribute system by making it redundant in respect to skills - in Morrowind the attributes controlled different things than skills - there was some overlap, but weapon skills didn't govern damage, strength did so exclusively, agility was important in how it made you resistant to stagger and so on; in Oblivion marksman and agility did largely the same thing, strength and blunt&blade likewise, athletics and speed likewise, etc.
Skyrim just cut the deadwood out.

Similarly the spellmaker - in Morrowind spells were sequential, so it made a lot of sense to apply effects so that they would benefit from the previous ones, you could also have multiple summons, in Oblivion you could just have one summon and effects couldn't affect each other in single casting, so spellmaker was mostly spurious apart from making bigger nukes.
Skyrim could actually use spellmaker as it added a lot of interesting stuff to magic system - concentration spells, wards, walls, runes, necromancy, AoE around self, etc. - but it still allows much more interesting gameplay variation just by allowing dual wielding of spell + weapon, spell + shield, same spell or different spells - in which case there was a lot of room for finding tactical uses for different combinations - than Oblivion ever did even with spellmaker.

Whereas in Oblivion, just about every city (and cities is all there is - Cyrodiil gets by without agriculture) is a happy mixture of everything.

While you're not wrong, Oblivion however does have agriculture all over the place - not much in the line of ranches (for mutton and things), but there's fruits and vegetables grown everywhere.
You may be confusing it with Oblivion With Guns, which indeed didn't have any agriculture anywhere.

The amount of agriculture Oblivion had wouldn't even qualify as allotment gardens, let alone farms, whereas Skyrim actually tries to create illusion of some agriculture.

 

[Kalon]

The amount of agriculture Oblivion had wouldn't even qualify as allotment gardens, let alone farms

Cyrodiil according to Oblivion is basically a society of hunter-gatherers.

 

[Fowyr]

Anyway, Arena is kind of meh being very proto-TES, with none of the series strengths established yet.

Outdoor maps were awesome. Repetitive, but you always knew that there is something more nearby. Farm lands with tavern, old keep with several lizardmen, small village with peasants, farm land, small keep with spellswords, temple, small keep with thieves, graveyard, small keep with goblins...
Daggerfall depended on fast travel to find all these small keeps, because travelling on foot or horse was pretty tedious and needed exact knowledge of where is this landmark.

 

[DraQ]

The amount of agriculture Oblivion had wouldn't even qualify as allotment gardens, let alone farms

Cyrodiil according to Oblivion is basically a society of hunter-gatherers.

Hurper-derperers, more like.

Anyway, Arena is kind of meh being very proto-TES, with none of the series strengths established yet.

Outdoor maps were awesome. Repetitive, but you always knew that there is something more nearby. Farm lands with tavern, old keep with several lizardmen, small village with peasants, farm land, small keep with spellswords, temple, small keep with thieves, graveyard, small keep with goblins...
Daggerfall depended on fast travel to find all these small keeps, because travelling on foot or horse was pretty tedious and needed exact knowledge of where is this landmark.

That's part of why I consider Morrowind to be the best TES.


In Morrowind different parts of the game actually work together:

• Overworld isn't just there, but it both connects locations and serves as an integral component of the gameplay (as it should)
• Enemies actually use the equipment they have in their inventories - weapons, ammo, armor, enchanted trinkets, potions - and look the part.
• Places strive to make sense in the context.

...and so on.

Daggerfall is, in the end, a disjoint mess of very ambitious and awesome ideas.
Sure, it's great in its own way but something is missing, for example its vast, continuous world is in the end just another number to brag about on the box - take it away and most players wouldn't even notice because there is simply no reason to ever be in the wilderness.

 

[MWaser]

[...]in Morrowind and Skyrim, the various races have specific positions in society: catpeople are thieves or slaves in Morrowind, caravan traders in Skyrim (I'm not sure there is a single city-dwelling Khajiit in Skyrim). Orcs in Skyrim live in their strongholds or work as hired muscle (with the exception of the librarian). Dunmer are working-class refugees in Riften and Windhelm. And so on.

Why, you might simply not be appreciating Oblivion's deep and thoughtful anti-racism messages, showing that in the well-developed province of Cyrodil, the center of Tamriel and effective capital of its culture ever since the Empire is in charge, racial stereotypes such as in they are in the less-developed, backwards provinces, simply don't exist.

I mean what is with black people not all being gangsters and thieves and every arab not having a suicide belt strapped to them. Fucking real life is so lore-unfriendly.

 

[DraQ]

[...]in Morrowind and Skyrim, the various races have specific positions in society: catpeople are thieves or slaves in Morrowind, caravan traders in Skyrim (I'm not sure there is a single city-dwelling Khajiit in Skyrim). Orcs in Skyrim live in their strongholds or work as hired muscle (with the exception of the librarian). Dunmer are working-class refugees in Riften and Windhelm. And so on.

Why, you might simply not be appreciating Oblivion's deep and thoughtful anti-racism messages, showing that in the well-developed province of Cyrodil, the center of Tamriel and effective capital of its culture ever since the Empire is in charge, racial stereotypes such as in they are in the less-developed, backwards provinces, simply don't exist.

?

 

[varangos]

i didnt wrote the above by the way.

 

[MWaser]

i didnt wrote the above by the way.

It wouldn't be the first time I fucked up a quote. Quoting multiple posts too hard.

 

[Fowyr]

?

Uriel Septim IV and one of his legendary orgies?