Incline Shoot'em up goodness (review and discuss)

[Palikka]

You folks tried out ShmupArch? Basically a shmup fork of RetroArch.
If you're interested in input lag and stuff then shmuparch might be woth a try.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Nevermind the naysayers, Retroarch with runahead is pretty much the best way to play shmups. Some consider using runahead a "cheat", but I say less input lag is always better. Next-frame response is so good.

Specially if they post passive agressive dark message, I request politely a clarification on the alternative, and after that they only react with the mystery emote instead of answering what they considers the best emulator.

It´s not like I asked for the answer to 2+2=? or something very obvious. Morenatsu.

I guess I expected too much from a furry avatar.

I tried RetroArch once in my entire life and the interface was complete shit and it wouldn't display in the correct resolution on my CRT. MAME works, SSF works, Xebra works, and I don't want to switch to something that's more annoying and retarded to use just because of some input lag. I'll play PS3 games at 2 FPS sooner than I will replace my emulators with popular ones I've never heard of. I'd rather use ZSNES or ePSXe than even attempt to see whether RetroArch is actually tolerable or not.

 

[Valestein]

I posted this in the metroidvania thread a while back and this title is an unusual one in that it's a hybrid of metroidvania and shmup.

 

[Great Deceiver]

You folks tried out ShmupArch? Basically a shmup fork of RetroArch.
If you're interested in input lag and stuff then shmuparch might be woth a try.

It's not a "fork", it's just regular Retroarch with some (very aggressive) frame delay/runahead settings dialed in (i.e. preconfigured), and some per-game savestates to unlock characters etc., by a user called Mark (Electric Underground on YouTube). He was very annoying when he tried to peddle a simple config file as some kind of elite ultra custom build in various shmup forums, but he's since been knocked down a few pegs and has mostly simmered down.

 

[Lutte]

Nevermind the naysayers, Retroarch with runahead is pretty much the best way to play shmups. Some consider using runahead a "cheat", but I say less input lag is always better. Next-frame response is so good.

There's nothing wrong with using that, and most people wouldn't consider it cheating, but it is considered good etiquette when talking about scoring on shmup boards to state when your conditions deviate from the norm, and having an "easier time" than with the arcade original or a decent emulation of is deviation enough. Particularly with the games that were unfortunate enough to have high input lag on the arcade boards, it doesn't make sense to use the same scoring board as with someone playing on RA with runahead.

 

[Great Deceiver]

That's fair enough. In the absence of a hard enforceable standard, though, shmup scoring boards should have clearer guidelines to better reflect modern developments. And I think everything should be discriminated: use of turbo in games with no native support, 1P/2P, region (if there are difficulty-related differences), etc.

As with everything in emulation, even for casual play, there's the absolute purist camp, the anything goes camp, and something in between, which is where I would place myself. To my personal taste, if I can get next-frame response, I'll always go for it. Muh 5f Garegga can fuck right off.

 

[Lutte]

use of turbo in games with no native support

That one is highly interesting and often debated, but there has been a close consensus that settled around "if most people on real arcade used turbo, then using turbo on emulators is fine and the default assumption on main scoreboards is use of turbo" because of some games that are, quite frankly, physically painful to play without a turbo, so much so that in the real world there were almost no arcades out there that weren't modded to add a turbo addon. The only people playing Darius Gaiden without turbo are turboautists. There was no native support for turbo on gaiden, but arcade operators knew nobody would play this game if they didn't mod their arcade.

 

[Matador]

I can now beat 3 first stages of Batsugun Special with one quarter and maybe even not dying once in my most clutch moments.

I know the shit hits the fan in stage 4 or 5, but this is a start to get my first 1cc.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Guise, what kind of ships do you identitfy as? Fast, slow, wide, narrow, big, small, retarded, magical loli? On all levels except Ultra I am a speeddragon.

 

[Machocruz]

Was thinking the other day that, pound for pound, shmups offer the greatest spectacle in video games. Especially space shmups, which can contain all other settings within. Take Forgotten Worlds, a favorite of mine on the visual design front. It's one of the most insane spectacles ever programmed. It has outer space, post-apocalyptic cities, several world mythologies, dragons, lizardmen, Fist of the North Star, Contra, Stargate, Renaissance art references, etc. And it all fits together seamlessly, somehow.

I can't even think of any 3D games that come close to the scale, intensity, and variety of shmup environments, enemies, firepower, colors, destruction, etc. Closest I can come up with are Bayonetta 2 and Asura's Wrath. Definitely don't see shmup-like bosses and exotic worlds in modern space games. Developers are pre-occupied with their games being believable, "internal logic" and such. They don't take advantage of one of the main freedoms that video games allow, compared to other narrative media ( I contend that the course of play, with its beginning, middle, and completion, is a form of narrative), to let loose with whatever visions they can conjure and try to make it all tie together in a reasonably cohesive manner.

It's the visionary genre, imo.

 

[Nutmeg]

I like Garegga because of the art. That is all.

1993-1998 Raizing has great art. Mahou Daisakusen, Shippu Mahou Daisakusen, Soukyugurentai, Battle Garegga, Armed Police Batrider. They're all 10 out of 10.

BTW for more of the Garegga aesthetic, checkout Gun Frontier and Raiden Fighters (2 is my favorite).

 

[Nutmeg]

I can now beat 3 first stages of Batsugun Special with one quarter and maybe even not dying once in my most clutch moments.

I know the shit hits the fan in stage 4 or 5, but this is a start to get my first 1cc.

Batsugun Special has a very interesting format, it's 4 loops, with every loop starting one stage ahead. So loop 2 starts from stage 2, loop 3 from stage 3 etc. The devs obviously meant for you to do the 4-ALL.

Getting the 1-ALL is doable even for a beginner, probably the easiest high tier arcade shmup.

 

[Chanel Oberlin]

It's the visionary genre, imo.

It's less about the genre and more about the jump to 3D and the obsession with reality (or internal logic as you say). You can find several 2D sidescrollers mixing all kinds of settings with its wacky moments. It was one of the beautiful things of pre-5th gen vidya. What happened with the shmup genre is that despite its niche status it kept creating new titles while not benefiting as much from 3D graphics —this helps developers to create worlds unchained from the shackles of internal logic. They don't have to please normies with the impositions of immersion.

 

[Nutmeg]

There's internal logic and consistency of setting in a lot of shmups too. For every Forgotten Worlds or Gradius you have an Under Defeat or Gun Frontier.

 

[Machocruz]

It's less about the genre and more about the jump to 3D and the obsession with reality (or internal logic as you say). You can find several 2D sidescrollers mixing all kinds of settings with its wacky moments. It was one of the beautiful things of pre-5th gen vidya. What happened with the shmup genre is that despite its niche status it kept creating new titles while not benefiting as much from 3D graphics —this helps developers to create worlds unchained from the shackles of internal logic. They don't have to please normies with the impositions of immersion.

Yes the major distinction is between 2D and 3D, which is why I wrote "pound for pound" (also taking into account game length and budget). But even among genres in 2D, I think not having to be tethered to land or gravity grants the genre a broader space of possibilities, no pun intended. Mixing settings isn't the thing, I just like that about FW in particular, as it has a lot of themes I dig and makes them all work together as if it's natural. You right, side scrollers do it to, and top down games. There are other shmups that are more immense, more trippy than Worlds while being less eclectic.

There's internal logic and consistency of setting in a lot of shmups too. For every Forgotten Worlds or Gradius you have an Under Defeat or Gun Frontier.

Certainly. I was never into the more tame settings. The psychedelic highs of the genre are still much, much higher/more frequent than 3D games. I think Garegga is about as "realistic" as I like. Glad you mentioned Gradius. That and Lifeforce were actually the first games I played that had awe-inspiring scale, to a kid at least. Little touches from the real world past, like having Moai heads, added a sense of history/time/age, which made it seem even more epic. FW accomplishes the same thing with its mythological references.

1993-1998 Raizing has great art. Mahou Daisakusen, Shippu Mahou Daisakusen, Soukyugurentai, Battle Garegga, Armed Police Batrider. They're all 10 out of 10.

BTW for more of the Garegga aesthetic, checkout Gun Frontier and Raiden Fighters (2 is my favorite).

Yeah those games look dope. Raiden Fighters 2, so clean. I like the supplemental art of the Mahou Daisakusen games. There's even a manga.

 

[Valestein]

These look interesting.

 

[Matador]

Playing a lot of Dodonpachi last week. My favorite shmup so far. I found that I like more bullet hell format more than classic ones like Tatsujin.

Also played some Ketsui in the excellent PS4 port with great challenge mode (training). Exillarating game, but It´s very brutal, so I think will not try to get serious with it until I improve in a more manageable game like Dodonpachi.

 

[Rocket-Propelled Game]

Is the Steam port of Hellsinker any good?

 

[Great Deceiver]

Playing a lot of Dodonpachi last week. My favorite shmup so far. I found that I like more bullet hell format more than classic ones like Tatsujin.

Also played some Ketsui in the excellent PS4 port with great challenge mode (training). Exillarating game, but It´s very brutal, so I think will not try to get serious with it until I improve in a more manageable game like Dodonpachi.

Dodonpachi is an amazing game. My favourite Pachi is probably DaiOuJou, which has a great PS2 port - try it out if you haven't yet.

I suck at them, though. Not even close to clearing even the first loop.

 

[Nutmeg]

classic ones like Tatsujin

If you want a good, accessible, Toaplan classic that's still very unique to this day, try Outzone.

I suck at them, though. Not even close to clearing even the first loop.

Yeah same. I was playing DDP a few years back and I hit a brick wall with stage 5. Even with save state practice I couldn't get a good feel for the stage, kept cornering myself and mismanaging the threats, but I didn't want to look up videos and autistically follow a route either. It's also too early to blow your bomb load if going for a shit clear. I probably would have stuck with it a bit more if I enjoyed the music, but sadly, DDP's music is not my cup of tea.

Right now I'm alternating between Nexzr and Sin and Punishment credits. The latter isn't really a shmup, but it's related. The former is great. Some call it a hybrid between Image Fight and Soldier Blade, which is accurate, IMO. Great music. Very well designed stages and patterns, as well as power ups and checkpoints. Highly recommended.

 

[Matador]

Playing a lot of Dodonpachi last week. My favorite shmup so far. I found that I like more bullet hell format more than classic ones like Tatsujin.

Also played some Ketsui in the excellent PS4 port with great challenge mode (training). Exillarating game, but It´s very brutal, so I think will not try to get serious with it until I improve in a more manageable game like Dodonpachi.

Dodonpachi is an amazing game. My favourite Pachi is probably DaiOuJou, which has a great PS2 port - try it out if you haven't yet.

I suck at them, though. Not even close to clearing even the first loop.

I have DOJ pending after first Dodonpachi because is harder. I played the first stage and the first boss is very cool.

Very nice bosses in Dodonpachi games. Very fun to learn and try to beat.

 

[Lutte]

The music is what sells me on CAVE the most, really helps get in the mood.

 

[Valestein]

Not your standard shmup, it has top down airship combat and top-down on foot "twin stick" action ala hotline miami.




It's in early access ^

 

[Silentstorm]

Fuck me, i bought R-Type Final 2 on Xbox like an idiot, i thought "hey, i have this, let me be nice and support a system that is usually ignored by this genre these days" and now there is a R-Type Final 3 version that is a heavily updated version coming exclusively to PS5, which includes new features, quality of live improvements, PSVR 2 support and EXCLUSIVE STAGES FOR THIS VERSION ONLY, oh, they also made the game be on Unreal Engine 5...only on PS5.

But wait, i hear you say, didn't the game come out to everything, people could have bought it on a computer or their Switch...well, the developer says "Fuck you and anyone that doesn't play on one of Sony's systems, go fuck yourselves or buy a PS5 and this new edition!".

And as an extra screw you, exclusively to Xbox users, R-Type Tactics 1 and 2 are getting remasters and will be sold on a compilation to everything but Xbox...man, i don't even own a PS4/5 but still, now i regret supporting the developer on Xbox, though i would have been screwed out of Final 3 even if i bought it on my PC.

 

[Palikka]

Another marathon from Shmup Junkie.

Every KONAMI Shoot Em Up Reviewed​