Serpent Rider? I Hardly Know Her! (The Heretic & Hexen Games)

[Cat Headed Eagle]

I'd still maintain that Jedi Academy is one of the best Star Wars games ever made. It just gets what's fun about being a jedi.

 

[Darth Roxor]

To fully capture that classic Geocities look, the thread is only missing the minotaur braziers from Hexen.

Also, contributing to heretical tunes:

 

[Darth Roxor]

 

[deuxhero]

If anyone wants it, pack of Heretic+Hexen+Hexen xpack+Hexen 2 is on sale for $2.50 on Steam, and sourceports don't care about launchers

 

[Valestein]

The only one of these that i never played was heretic 2, that any good?

 

[deuxhero]

Man, Hexen 1 really suffers from its limited enemy variety. There's only 11 normal enemies, but 3 are just advanced versions of other normal enemies (more HP+additional attack), 2 others are only used in a single area, and 1 is only seen on water. That means there's only 5 normal monsters for the most part.

The only one of these that i never played was heretic 2, that any good?

Heretic 2 is weird, being a third person game with a talking PC in an FPS series full of grunt only PCs.

 

[Lemming42]

Hexen never goes as full FPS as it feels like it should do. Some of the weapons are fun but you get bored with them so fast and it's just the same enemies over and over. It's good that it feels distinct from Heretic but at the same time they could let you go a bit more apeshit now and then. The only really satisfying part of the whole game combat-wise is when you're playing as (I think) the Cleric and finally assemble the ghost staff, and even that gets old after a couple uses.

 

[Great Deceiver]

The only one of these that i never played was heretic 2, that any good?

It's a pretty good third person shooter and compares favourably to other similar stuff that came out at around the same time or even a few years later (Drakan, Heavy Metal FAKK 2, etc.).

You have to jump through some hoops to get it running properly on modern OSs as the game isn't as popular as other games based on the Q2 engine. There's an Enhancement Pack that works pretty well but I remember having to fiddle a lot to get music working properly.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

The only one of these that i never played was heretic 2, that any good?

It's a hidden gem of action fantasy gaming. Which is weird considering it's a Raven game and part of a pretty famous franchise.

 

[F. J. Rothchild III]

The only one of these that i never played was heretic 2, that any good?

It's a hidden gem of action fantasy gaming. Which is weird considering it's a Raven game and part of a pretty famous franchise.

I concur! It’s also pretty wild that it’s the only one you’ve played, given how it’s usually the only one that most haven’t.

This means that (in keeping with the thread’s 90s/Y2K Geocities aesthetic)…

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

The only one of these that i never played was heretic 2, that any good?

It's a hidden gem of action fantasy gaming. Which is weird considering it's a Raven game and part of a pretty famous franchise.

I concur! It’s also pretty wild that it’s the only one you’ve played, given how it’s usually the only one that most haven’t.

This means that (in keeping with the thread’s 90s/Y2K Geocities aesthetic)…

Oh, thus far I've played Heretic 1 and 2 and Hexen. I'm going to play Hexen 2 soon since I got it from GOG a while ago.

 

[F. J. Rothchild III]

I am a certied retard.

I read that as “the only game I ever played was Heretic II”. It also, in hindsight, makes no sense for them to ask if it was good if they already played it.

I expect as many negative reactions to this post as humanly possible. Just flood it with “NO”s, “Shit”s, “Decline”s, take your pick.

I deserve this. Flog my back until it is raw.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

What an amazing game. Aesthetics on point too -- the land is ill, dying. Every stage has its own identity yet the main theme persists. The combat is perfect too.

 

[F. J. Rothchild III]

What an amazing game. Aesthetics on point too -- the land is ill, dying. Every stage has its own identity yet the main theme persists. The combat is perfect too.

Yet again, I agree. In my opinion, Heretic II's style of early 3D graphics was RIGHT between:

a) when they were SUPER early and polygonal in a more abstract way, thus a bit uglier and less charming

and

b) when edges atarted getting smoother and shaders beter, but still not to a degree where those didn't look dodgy, either.

In other words, what that little harlot, Goldilocks, might deem "just right".

Thankfully, for me, a game has to have pretty atrocious graphics for me to not play it if I love its gameplay. Also, more impoprtant than graphics to me, even, is art style.
I won't get hyperbolic and say Heretic II's graphics are "timeless". They're not. They look exactly like their time. Hoiwever, that time (to me, a perfect period in the evolution of 2-D graphics)
is really my favorite style of 3D PC Game graphics. Games like Sacrifice, Rune, American McGee's Alice...just perfect.
Early and jagged, perhaps, but with enough room to execute a cohesive art style. I honestly love Hexen II's graphics, as well, for the same reason.

This could be some sort of bias based on my age and the window (even though I didn't play any of these on release) of what I consider the perfect middle ground/sweet spot, graphically, though.
Those older than me might, with their own valid reasons, think that Doom was the peak of their preferred style (I do certainly love Monolith's Blood), or folks even older than that might miss the artful simplicity
of graphics in games like Adventure or River Raid, so who knows.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The only one of these that i never played was heretic 2, that any good?

Yep. I will just quote myself from some earlier time:

heretic 2 is a great game because it lets me chop elves into bits and watch them run around bleeding out in panic with missing limbs except for the cases when the elf in question is a magus so he just uses his remaining limb to throw fireballs at me and this is most rude

Man, Hexen 1 really suffers from its limited enemy variety. There's only 11 normal enemies, but 3 are just advanced versions of other normal enemies (more HP+additional attack), 2 others are only used in a single area, and 1 is only seen on water. That means there's only 5 normal monsters for the most part.

In my view Hexen's small bestiary is balanced out by the fact that EVERY SINGLE ENEMY IS ANNOYING AS SHIT. Every. Single. One. Even the fucking ettins are annoying with their respawns.

Hexen never goes as full FPS as it feels like it should do.

On the contrary, I don't think it should, and I also don't think it's really an "FPS" to begin with. To me, it's more of a first-person dungeon crawler, it even has very clear paper D&D vibes all over the place.

 

[F. J. Rothchild III]

To me, it's more of a first-person dungeon crawler, it even has very clear paper D&D vibes all over the place.

Do you think Hexen II is just as much of a dungeon-crawler with D&D vibes, or more shooter-y than its predecessor?

The poll definitely doesn't agree (YET!), but I personally really dig Hexen II. As muhc as I've been in agreement regarding the Heretic II gushing, I think I might consider Hexen II to be the quintessential game of the series. I know it's as obtuse as trying to teach speech to a goose (one with both down feathers and Down Syndrome) but each game in the series can be that way, too, at times. Hexen II combines the vibes and Dark Fantasy FPS premise established in Heretic, the doom-laden, more RPG (feeling) D&D-ness of Hexen, and the graphics I just love that Heretic II more or less shares.

It's the best of all worlds, and, atmospherically, is as sinister as a babysitting minister.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Do you think Hexen II is just as much of a dungeon-crawler with D&D vibes, or more shooter-y than its predecessor?

I will pass judgement after I finish it.

 

[Beans00]

Heretic was one of my favorite 90s shooters so I voted that. I remember I did beat it but I think it was the original version with only 3 episodes.

Hexen was cool aesthetically but the puzzles were way too obtuse. Civvie 11 basically sums up my thoughts on the game in his review video. Maybe I could have figured it out if I was poor and hexen was my only game, or if I was older when I played it.

Never played or owned hexen 2

Heretic 2 we owned, I remember watching my dad play it but I never played it myself.

 

[Lemming42]

They are going for a dungeon crawler vibe in Hexen 1 but it still feels closer to Doom/Heretic for me. But it ends up in kind of an unhappy middle-ground since the dungeons have nothing to do beyond finding your way and switch hunting, but the combat isn't really up to scratch for an FPS. As a kid I basically considered it to be Heretic but with worse levels and crap weapons, which is wrong, but I can see why I thought that.

Anyway here's some hasitily-made desktop wallpapers of the Heretic and Hexen 2/PoP box art if anyone wants them:

 

[Machocruz]

This could be some sort of bias based on my age and the window (even though I didn't play any of these on release) of what I consider the perfect middle ground/sweet spot, graphically, though.
Those older than me might, with their own valid reasons, think that Doom was the peak of their preferred style (I do certainly love Monolith's Blood), or folks even older than that might miss the artful simplicity
of graphics in games like Adventure or River Raid, so who knows.

I am River Raid age, loved playing it back on Colecovision, but no thank you on the graphics. NES is the start of acceptable 2D to me, when talented graphic designers are involved; I still get a kick of some of the iconography that was produced on that platform, NES is a style category all its own.

Doom still has a visual charm, but Hexen is the peak of that "handrawn" FPS art style imo.

Hexen 2 is still pretty good 3D. Most importantly the visuals are clean/legible while sporting a good amount of detail, and the game is fast compared to today. That would put it in the sweet spot for me

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Heretic and its Serpent Riders expansion was the most fun for me of the Doom-engine spin-offs in the good ol' dusty days of DOS. Played it about a month after I first played Doom circa 1994-95. It was bright and cheery in visuals yet dark and creepy in atmosphere so I liked the sweet and the sour of that. Hexen with its "pull hidden switch A in east side of map to open hidden door B in west side of map" hub mechanics was a disappointment, but still okay as far as these Doomy things go. IIRC I had to quit Hexen that first time (played a few months after Heretic) because I couldn't find the switch I'd just opened on the other side of the map but did eventually come back to it a year or 2 later to complete it. Heretic was so linear it was impossible to be confused.

 

[deuxhero]

Just beat Hexen.

A very solid game, with some unique for the time features. A great candidate for bringing back as a proper FPS Metroidvania with progression blocked by mobility upgrades instead of a switch relay race. Hub 3 was my favorite since it introduced the best utilized enemy (a floating mage who teleports and fires projectiles with a slight homing effect, but is stunlocked very easily), had many distinct sublevels, and upped the pace and difficulty while telling story with the new area. Also it had good sense to tell you which switches you've hit. . Least was either 2 (swamp maze, key hunt), or 5 (3 had you break into one of the bad guy's training/recruiting place, 4 had break into their castle stronghold, 5 is... a graveyard. Also does least with it's hub area.) The only time I actually had to resort to a guide was hub 2, and that was something I could have done without if I was willing to blow the time (hub 2 revolves around finding keys and finding their door).

Pro:
Very nice atmosphere. Shows that the Doom engine can do more than random corridor mazes if it wants to.
Solid 90s FPS action
Class system gives some replayability
The map is actually useful. Switches are visible on it due to how they're set into the wall, so you don't have nearly the switch hunt issues some other games give you.
Final boss was an attempt. I think it was the best final boss of any 90s FPS I've seen since those devolve into circle strafe and shoot till it's dead (with some infighting in Doom). This one teleports away after it loses enough HP and throws minions at you. Would be a great fight if the player wasn't absolutely loaded with inventory items they had no reason to use till now (Hexen has one scripted fight that's totally forgettable, one boss fought twice, both times where the terrain works against him, three deathmatch bots that die near instantly, and the final boss.)
Some of the weapons are actually pretty fun and creative. Sapphire Wand is a very undersung hero of FPS weapons. I'm sure it's why future FPS pistols with unlimited ammo have a slower fire rate: It stunlocks nearly everything.

Con:
The lack of enemy variety. You will very quickly find optimal strategies for all five normal enemies (one of which is absent for 2/5ths) in the game, and rarely see them used in interesting ways.
Most of the inventory is pointless. Enemies rarely come in units or areas where it's worth the hassle of using them. If there were actual minibosses it would be worth experimenting with them more, but as is.
Puzzles mostly felt pointless
All the secret levels were stupid. A real trend of 90s FPSes seems to have been taking reject levels and using them as an optional "secret" level.
Doom's AI/monster hitboxes can not navigate sharp corners well. The game is full of sharp corners and the enemies (except the three fights near the end that are literally just multiplayer bots) are all larger than human size which makes it worse. Unless a room locks you in, you can cheese most enemies by waking them up and backing up.
Mana system discourages using weapons that cost mana, especially once you get the fourth weapon that uses both. It's always the same with universal ammo. I found myself using wand 90% of the time, with Arc of Death for centaurs, frost shards for areas I had to kill low numbers of enemies quick in CQC, and staff for huge groups of enemies (rarely seen)

Oddities:
The areas you're supposed to put multiple different quest items into are actually separate triggers, meaning you actually need to aim for the one you're putting in.
Even for the era, it's weird to see three playable characters (each of whom has unique grunts) and all of them are male.

I'll give it a rest before trying out the expansion.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

I think the inventory was more or less the same than Heretic's? At least in Heretic the level design and number of enemies you'd face were closer to Doom's, which makes items more useful in different instances. But Hexen's level design is still very cryptic and there's less enemies, and less varied, as you said.

 

[F. J. Rothchild III]

Starting to think the poll data on the codex is processed by Dominion Voting Systems, because Heretic currently being at #1 is quite a surprise.

I love it. It’s a grand Doom clone that I actually even prefer to Doom, at least aesthetically. I’m not surprised that people on here like a solid, classic, FPS. However, it has the least RPG elements of the Serpent Rider FPS trilogy. One would think this site would be more partial to the Hexens.

Not complaining, though. Happy to be surprised! Just a heads up, though, the poll is not closed (and never will be) so, if you feel like throwing in a vote for your favorite, it’s not too late.

 

[deuxhero]

I think the inventory was more or less the same than Heretic's? At least in Heretic the level design and number of enemies you'd face were closer to Doom's, which makes items more useful in different instances. But Hexen's level design is still very cryptic and there's less enemies, and less varied, as you said.

Heretic limited you to carrying over one item of each type (or zero in the case of Wings) between levels. This "use it or lose it" somewhat reduces the hoarding issue. The big issue with it is that the player has no idea how much longer the current level will be.