Serious Business - Is Dishonored better than Thief?

[Curratum]

Calling JarlFrank and other LGS heads.

Just finished concurrent no-kills, no-powers playthroughs of Dishonored 1 and 2 (my third for D1 and first for D2) and the question whether D1 and 2 are really better than T1 and 2 is bugging me a lot.

I keep Thief 2 installed at all times, mostly playing fan missions every couple of months. I love the series with all my heart, I really do, but I am having a hard time bringing myself to play the truly low-poly and barebones levels of the original games (hence FMs because of the higher poly count and often better artistic direction).

Dishonored, both games, have been a non-stop blissful ride for me. Obviously, I prefer to play the way you would play a regular Thief game - without fancy powers and without killing, which no doubt brings the experience closer to the classic games. This is also why I'm comparing them to Thief - the pace at which I play and the care for stealth is comparable to the pacing of the old Thief games.

The main thing Thief does decidedly better is the sound design, footstep propagation and ambient drones. I still can't understand why nobody has been able to implement a similarly good sound system in later stealth games, could be that Eric Brosius sold his soul to the devil back then in exchange for some dark magic.

Even though the stealth and detection mechanics in Dishonored are not as refined as some aspects of Thief's stealth, the gameplay is still thoroughly enjoyable and we all know you can meta Thief to death and do ridiculous things like front-lean and thwack a guard on the nose as he's approaching you face to face, right before he bumps into you, if you're in the dark.

I thought the texture, "scent", the feeling of being there and the immersion of Thief would never be matched but Dishonored does a pretty good job of it, to my mind. I really get into the zone, the way I do with Thief.

Can we maybe agree than the games are equally good? I've been on a "down with the old, in with the new" streak recently, re-evaluating my holy cows in the FPS genre and admitting to myself that there actually contemporary games made in that style and following similar design process and goals, who are, in no small part by virtue of modern technology, better than the old ones. Maybe that's also the case with immersive sims?

As a final note - this is only concerning the stock, developer-made content of Thief 1 and 2.

 

[abnaxus]

Serious_Business

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Thief 1/2 are amazing.

Dishonored has you looking like some hyper gay techno ninja with all the whacky magical bullshit you get.

Also where's Kingcomrade?

 

[JarlFrank]

I'd say they're about equal for me. Thief is of course a timeless classic, I love it to bits, and the fan mission community keeps churning out top notch content. Dishonored is also great, though, and the level design of Dishonored 2 is some of the best level design I've seen in a commercial release ever. So when it comes to level design, the two series are about equal - Clockwork Manor, Grand Palace, etc, are amazing levels, but so are Bonehoard and The Sword.

When we go down to the systems, it comes down to preference I guess. Thief is the purer stealth game, and it's mechanically more solid in its stealth. You have great sound propagation, different surfaces have a different footstep loudness, light and shadow play a huge role in how easy you are to detect and the light gem always unmistakably tells you how obvious or hidden you are.
Dishonored has worse sound propagation, surfaces play less of a role in determining your footstep sounds, there are no major light and shadow mechanics, stealth is mostly line of sight based and you evade guards by hiding somewhere vertical rather than hiding in shadows.
As for the exploration, Thief has rope arrows for vertical movement while Dishonored has blink. Both have plenty of vertical exploration.
If you play without powers, Dishonored is actually harder to stealth than Thief. Guards tend to be a bit more aware and able to turn their heads, while in Thief guards can be cheesed quite easily. Knockouts are quicker in Thief than in Dishonored: the blackjack is instant, choking out takes a few seconds. Some guard patrols in Dishonored, especially Dishonored 2, are designed to require powers or sleep darts to take out. Most guard patrols in the original Thief games can be KO'd one by one with the blackjack. Dishonored also has dynamic patrol routes I think - in the flooded district level in Dishonored 1, I remember that a different guy took over a patrol route after I knocked out the original guard.

Overall, the Dishonored games aren't and don't want to be pure stealth games. Thief is better at that, but yes, the AI isn't up to par with newer games anymore.

I like them both about equally. Though Thief still has the edge simply because of the modding scene. If Dishonored had a map editor, it could surpass Thief at some point. But it doesn't, so it won't.

 

[Mikeal]

I like "Dishonored" but "Thief" series will always be superior.

 

[Somberlain]

They are different games with their own strengths and weaknesses

 

[J_C]

I haven't played Dishonered, but Thief has such an amazing sound, atmosphere, visual and level design, that it is hard to believe that any modern games can rival it. Mechanically Dishonered may be better, but I'm an atmoshpere fag first and foremost, and Thief is unbeatable in that regard.

 

[Curratum]

I haven't played Dishonered, but Thief has such an amazing sound, atmosphere, visual and level design, that it is hard to believe that any modern games can rival it. Mechanically Dishonered may be better, but I'm an atmoshpere fag first and foremost, and Thief is unbeatable in that regard.

That's part of my quandary - Dishonored really sucked me in with its locations, tone and settings, it's top-shelf stuff.

 

[Falksi]

Both are shit

Theif less shit

EDIT: OK I lied about Theif.

 

[Curratum]

Both are shit

Theif less shit

I don't think someone who is eagerly replaying Sega Genesis games and rating them 5/5 is qualified to comment on anything that has to do with either Dishonored or Thief.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Thief 1/2 is better ofc. And I was trying to play Dishonored 1 before deciding to play Thief series. The setting is better, the sound is better (at least for footsteps), imho levels in Thief was less linear than in Dishonored, writing and plot are better (at least for my taste).

 

[Curratum]

Thief 1/2 is better ofc. And I was trying to play Dishonored 1 before deciding to play Thief series. The setting is better, the sound is better (at least for footsteps), imho levels in Thief was less linear than in Dishonored, writing and plot are better (at least for my taste).

I beg to disagree on the writing and plot. The storyline missions were more exciting and better written in Thief 1, sure, but the better part of the actual "writing" and storytelling is all done with notes, books and posters and text, as well as overheard NPC conversations in all four games.

I also want to give credit to the Dish devs for making a game that is playable and great fun in, like, 5 different modes / playstiles, while Thief only supports one.

 

[Falksi]

Both are shit

Theif less shit

I don't think someone who is eagerly replaying Sega Genesis games and rating them 5/5 is qualified to comment on anything that has to do with either Dishonored or Thief.

That's because you don't appriciate the true era of incline

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

thief is thief, you work with what you have in mind and execute the plan the way you think best.
dishonored you already know that the passage x has been tailored to be done with power y, then z, then y and y again. you won't spend time trying to understand if that platform can actually be reached, you already know that it's either inside your powers or beyond. a couple levels into the game and everything felt so fake i had to quit.

 

[Curratum]

thief is thief, you work with what you have in mind and execute the plan the way you think best.
dishonored you already know that the passage x has been tailored to be done with power y, then z, then y and y again. you won't spend time trying to understand if that platform can actually be reached, you already know that it's either inside your powers or beyond. a couple levels into the game and everything felt to fake i had to quit.

Again, I usually play both games both without powers and without killing, so this changes the gameplay A LOT.

 

[Jonnaz]

Thief 1 >>>> Dishonored 1 > Thief 2 >>>> Dishonored 2

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

yes, and of course i could play deus ex with a hand tied behind my back and blindfolded, and that surely would change the gameplay A LOT too.
retarded self imposed limits aren't a game's merit, they're just larping in the hope of finding a better game into a pile of shit.

 

[Infinitron]

The Thief games are better, not because of muh hardcore pure stealth or anything like that, but because of the greater diversity in map design. Even without powers, Dishonored is like a Thief game where most of the levels are variants of Shipping... and Receiving and Life of the Party.

 

[RaptorRex888]

It's been nearly 200 years since Thief and it's stealth mechanics have not been surpassed or even matched by any other game. What the fuck.

 

[Tigranes]

Even though the stealth and detection mechanics in Dishonored are not as refined as some aspects of Thief's stealth

I tried Dishonoured once. I climbed some scaffolding, and stood on a wooden beam directly above a couple of guards. I chucked some flammable thing right down at them, setting one of them on fire. The other guard proceeded to stare calmly at his buddy on fire, and neither of them looked up, even when I started jumping on the beam.

Then I uninstalled.

 

[Shadenuat]

Dishonored gives you teleport so early; with all its magic abilities it cannot be like Thief, ever.

 

[Nano]

I beg to disagree on the writing and plot. The storyline missions were more exciting and better written in Thief 1, sure, but the better part of the actual "writing" and storytelling is all done with notes, books and posters and text, as well as overheard NPC conversations in all four games.

Dude, are you for real? Dishonored's writing sucks (and same goes for Arkane games in general). The dialogue was so horribly cheesy that it often took me out of the game.

Regarding story delivery: you're mistaken. A lot of Thief 1/2/3's plot is delivered in the cutscenes between missions. Also the notes and such that you find in Thief are almost always related to the mission at hand, and they're shorter than Dishonored's. Dishonored's notes suffer from TL;DR syndrome, especially because they're often not related to the mission, they're just infodumping about the setting.

 

[luj1]

Thief 1 >>>> Dishonored 1 > Thief 2 >>>> Dishonored 2

Just swap DH2 with DH and it's about right

 

[MpuMngwana]

I tried Dishonoured once. I climbed some scaffolding, and stood on a wooden beam directly above a couple of guards. I chucked some flammable thing right down at them, setting one of them on fire. The other guard proceeded to stare calmly at his buddy on fire, and neither of them looked up, even when I started jumping on the beam.

Then I uninstalled.

When I played Thief, during one mission I messed up, got spotted by a guard, and while running away got spotted by more guards. I ended up climbing on a bathtub where they couldn't reach me with their swords and they just stood there waving at me angrily while I killed them all with arrows.

Should I have uninstalled then?

 

[Curratum]

The Thief games are better, not because of muh hardcore pure stealth or anything like that, but because of the greater diversity in map design. Even without powers, Dishonored is like a Thief game where most of the levels are variants of Shipping... and Receiving and Life of the Party.

But those are some of the game's best levels! :D