Decline Second-tier gameplay features in neo-RPGs

[Valky]

What's with all of these popamole features?

 

[undecaf]

None of the poll options are "important", but a number of them can be used to some degree of benefit of a game. Eyecandy, overelaborate character sculpturing and romance are the most useless ones providing little function beyond wow-effect and egostroking.

E.g. Sparingly (and specifically) used cutscenes and voiceacting can boost up the feel of certain situations (see Fallout/Fallout 2); playerhouse not as a dollhouse, but a mission hub; etc.
I think there are clever or at least somewhat satisfying and unobtrusive ways to use those kinds of features.

 

[funkadelik]

None of the poll options are "important", but a number of them can be used to some degree of benefit of a game. Eyecandy, overelaborate character sculpturing and romance are the most useless ones providing little function beyond wow-effect and egostroking.

E.g. Sparingly (and specifically) used cutscenes and voiceacting can boost up the feel of certain situations (see Fallout/Fallout 2); playerhouse not as a dollhouse, but a mission hub; etc.
I think there are clever or at least somewhat satisfying and unobtrusive ways to use those kinds of features.

Sparingly is the key thing though. Modern developers cannot into sparingly with voice acting or cut scenes because they use that in place of actual gameplay to fill up the time slot the game is supposed to last, be it 20 hours or higher.

Romances, there is just no justification for them. They are just sickly embarassing.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Eye-candy

Graphics generally don't matter to me. Optimally, there's no need to be uglier than Wiz6 (clearly a tech limitation) or prettier than D:OS/PoE. Why go beyond that level? Specifically in this instance I'm referring to things like particles, FX, volumetric fog, shaders, stuff like that. Decorating and beatifying the game superficially. When that goes beyond a certain point gameplay is neglected.

Good graphics are always welcome. Good astetics can add a lot to a game's atmosphere, and you can relay much information to the player with it (ex.: a painting depicting a key moment in a culture's history, or a bloodstained elevator wich informs of a trap).
Of course when a developers wastes more resources on visuals than mechanics that's a bad sign.

Physics

GTFO.

What... Seriously.

Physics adds a whole new level to gameplay like few other mechanics can.

With good physics you can do shit like, pile objects to reach somewhere, make more complex puzzles and spells, use the sorroundings to your advantage, destruction systems come from good physics and in shooters makes a fuck lot of difference.
Fuck, good physics reward a player with imagination and contributes very much to emergent gameplay (something that RPG's must have).



This is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[luj1]

What's with all of these popamole features?

They are stupidly prioritized as it stands.

 

[Iznaliu]

but said items are of a set level anyway.

Item levels are decline. They aren't inherently so, but most games with them have crappy itemisation.

 

[luj1]

So, apparently romances take the cake as far as uselessness goes. Followed closely by player housing. Figures.

 

[Sacred82]

• they compensate for traditional content
• they are mostly inconsequential to gameplay
• they detract from optimal game development
• they encourage decline
• they reduce product standard
• they reduce consumer standard

Player housing doesn't seem to do any of these things.

 

[anvi]

Dumb poll.

 

[Reapa]

Never understood player housing. I understand the need for storage in some games but it doesn't require you to have a house. In most games town is your "house" as after you return from the raid you walk around traders/repairers/quest dispensers and so on.

i take it you just fuck the skyrim npcs right there in the street instead of luring them to your house first.

 

[Iznaliu]

What's with all of these popamole features?

That's what happens when people who like RPGs for marginal reasons enter the genre en masse.

 

[luj1]

What's with all of these popamole features?

That's what happens when people who like RPGs for marginal reasons enter the genre en masse.

Finally, I can agree with something you wrote. Nailed it.

 

[mindfields]

I don't consider crafting to be a "secondary feature" at all, although the other features listed are indeed unneccessary.

 

[anvi]

It is a dumb poll... They are all lame and superfluous things except itemization, which if you went without, the game would have no items at all... And yet the poll option lumps it in with crafting which is completely unrelated. Learn to poll.

 

[Iznaliu]

Finally, I can agree with something you wrote. Nailed it.

The issue is that RPGs have a bit of an identity crisis. If you ask five people what they like about RPGs, they will all answer different things.

 

[anvi]

Sub genres are annoying but I think it is a necessary evil. For example if the game has multiple characters and they all need to be controlled individually and made to do specific things to win, then it should be called a Tactical-RPG. And if the game only has 1 character, and they can win fights by mashing the left mouse and occasionally side stepping, then it should be classified as an Action-RPG-For-Spazzes-Millennials-And-ConsoleTards.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

crafting/itemization

Amazing feature that adds depth to gameplay when done well. I wish more RPGs had it.

voice acting

Again, great when done in moderation - think about Wizardry 8 without PCs grunts, FO 1/2 with text-only talking heads, BG 1/2 with no character sound at all etc.

eye candy

How is this second-tier? Most great RPGs have great visuals/style, there are exception but they succeed despite, not because of it. Think how much better AoD could have been if they went for a clean, stylish 2D instead of that bleached NWN-style 3D that added nothing gameplay-wise.

mini games

Depends. Speech check "game" in DOS was terrible. Nethack's minigame "with a twist" was one of that game's most memorable parts.

1. romances
2. player housing
3. cutscenes
4. over-the-top cosmetic character customization

This I agree with.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Housing has been an important part of RPGs since the PnP days. Working to get your own castle was always a cool sign of prestige. The problem is that it served more than as a shack for item storage (though that was also part of it).

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[toro]

There should be a prize for the most retarded vote pool of the year ... cause this shit would win easily

 

[deuxhero]

Unless it's a stronghold or the player's ship (so it serves a direct gameplay purpose), everything beyond official ownership+free rest+basic storage is pointless for player housing. A basic house is pretty low cost in dev resources to add (an interior that looks like half the interiors in the game and some method of winning/buying ownership) so it's hardly a force ruining RPGs.

Minigames are the worst though. I can't remember an RPG with a non-gambling minigame that was fun and couldn't just be cut with no actual mechanical or plot loss, and gambling minigames are really only useful for setting atmosphere (Both it and hookers that produce a fade to black when paid are needed to portray seedy low class areas, and NV couldn't really do its setting without blackjack and slots being implemented) when the player can savescumming.

 

[Iznaliu]

and gambling minigames are really only useful for setting atmosphere

You could have other atmospheric minigames.

 

[deuxhero]

Iznaliu
Like? Looking for actually implemented in something, not hypothetical.

 

[Iznaliu]

Like? Looking for actually implemented in something, not hypothetical.

Why don't hypothetical games count? Insisting that we need to copy what exists leads to creative torpor.

 

[deuxhero]

Because I was speaking about games that exist, not design in general. You could, theoretically, do it but as far as I know nothing currently does.

 

[Lacrymas]

No idea why crafting and itemization are both in the same category. Itemization is very, very important, while crafting is horrible most of the time. It's either too overpowered, like in D:OS, or a vestigial element that shouldn't be in at all. Eye candy is vague, I would consider eye candy the whole art direction if done right, but you think eye candy = graphics? Mini games is vague as well, what do you even mean? Like lockpicking or hacking mini games? Also, cutscenes? What kind of cutscenes? CGI Blizzard-style kitschy bullshit which require a whole different, specialized studio to make or once-in-a-while loss-of-control for some scripted scenes; or something in the middle?

Of all these things only voice acting and romances aren't in some way vague or context-sensitive. Both are cancer 99% of the time.