sea's (Mostly Technical) Skyrim Initial Impressions

[Kaol]

I'm leaving this now, perhaps once modded it will be more enjoyable.

Character creation is poor - although i do quite like the player models, theres no stats involved and race dosn't have a big impact on your game at all. Worse is the fact you get no indication of who you are actually meant to be. Why did you decide to travel to skyrim? The whole opening makes absolutely no sense.

The game is supposed to be about exploring but i never felt incentivised to actually do that. The main quest line never gives you an excuse to actually go and explore whether it be a necessity to power up to get past a certain stage or a need to investigate to actually proceed or even a plausible lull in the action.

Within the first 10 minutes of gameplay you encounter your first dragon and within the first hour you find out you are some kind of chosen one. I can live with the use of the beaten to death "chosen one" concept but it would have been nice to not find out during what is effectively the tutorial.

Theres no plot to speak of, you are the dragonborn you are born to slay dragons. Theres this big bad dragon and you must slay him. No plot twists no need to explore. We'll still make you do some fed ex quests for no logical reason to lengthen the game.

Imagine if fallout told you at the start of the game exactly where you needed to go and what was going on in the world giving you no reason to actually explore.

I'm guessing the game is more fun if you totally ignore the plot right after the intro and just do the exploring/sidequests before turning into jesus, i just wish there was a non metagaming reason to do so.

I don't like the inventory system one bit, i hate games where you freeze time to do anything but because of the lack of a ui its pretty much impossible to do anything completely in real time with only 8 number hotkeys. "Excuse me while i freeze time and drink 10 minor hp potions to get back to full health"

The perks system is quite nice, i think i was level 17 when i finished the game and perks were nicely limited. Unfortunately since the game can be completed on max difficulty at lvl 1 theres no actual point in levelling up.

Alot of stats don't seem explained, i have no idea how armour rating works, it dosn't seem to actually do alot.

Blocking is the same, nowhere is it explained how much damage you can absorb by blocking an attack which makes the perk to increase it seem abit pointless.

Alot of stuff seems based on chances which makes for frustrating gameplay, for instance landing a power attack gives a chance to stagger an opponent but is just as likely to have no visible effect and get you killed. Again this chance seems to be invisible.

The dragons are amazingly lame - you just shoot them with arrows they die. Really makes you wonder what the fuss is about.

Dialogue is dreadful, whats worse everyone seems to talk really slowly. I skipped everything i could skip, it's not like you need to actually listen to anyone in this game.

 

[Stabwound]

I am wondering on what difficulties do you guys play on? I am playing on Master since the beginning, but to be honest, as a pure mage, I feel the difficulty to be even more random.

For example, when exploring the tombs, I can kill a normal Draughr with a dual cast firebolt, but any other above Restless it seems it takes forever to kill. The main problem seems that just exactly like in Morrowind and Oblivion, difficulty levels only affect the damage you receive and the health of the enemies, and magic damage in Skyrim doesn't scale, so difficulty can become absurdly high when facing tougher than normal enemies. A guy on the bethsoft forums tested it out, monsters at master difficulty seems to be 4x as tough as normal. Doesn't mean well for a mage since there is FUCKING NO WAY to increase spell damage with equipment.

That's something I'm finding to be pretty annoying while trying to play a pure mage. While playing a melee guy you have a lot of opportunity to increase your damage output; new weapons, enchantments are not hard to come by. I'm level 13 or so and playing Master difficulty, and there are some monsters I simply can't kill without having to use a bunch of mana potions - if I can do enough damage to kill them at all. Dual-casted firebolt barely scratch some enemies (the health bar barely moves), and I can only cast it maybe 5 times before I'm completely out of magicka.

Unless there is equipment that increases spell damage output, playing a mage seems a bit unbalanced. I haven't looked at much outside of the destruction and conjuration lines, so maybe I'm missing something, though.

 

[Heresiarch]

I am wondering on what difficulties do you guys play on? I am playing on Master since the beginning, but to be honest, as a pure mage, I feel the difficulty to be even more random.

For example, when exploring the tombs, I can kill a normal Draughr with a dual cast firebolt, but any other above Restless it seems it takes forever to kill. The main problem seems that just exactly like in Morrowind and Oblivion, difficulty levels only affect the damage you receive and the health of the enemies, and magic damage in Skyrim doesn't scale, so difficulty can become absurdly high when facing tougher than normal enemies. A guy on the bethsoft forums tested it out, monsters at master difficulty seems to be 4x as tough as normal. Doesn't mean well for a mage since there is FUCKING NO WAY to increase spell damage with equipment.

That's something I'm finding to be pretty annoying while trying to play a pure mage. While playing a melee guy you have a lot of opportunity to increase your damage output; new weapons, enchantments are not hard to come by. I'm level 13 or so and playing Master difficulty, and there are some monsters I simply can't kill without having to use a bunch of mana potions - if I can do enough damage to kill them at all. Dual-casted firebolt barely scratch some enemies (the health bar barely moves), and I can only cast it maybe 5 times before I'm completely out of magicka.

Unless there is equipment that increases spell damage output, playing a mage seems a bit unbalanced. I haven't looked at much outside of the destruction and conjuration lines, so maybe I'm missing something, though.

Yeah, that is exactly the problem with playing as a pure mage in Skyrim. There are enchantments and perks to greatly improve melee damage, but for magic, you can only get a 50% increase with SIX perks for three elements, and nothing else. Hmm actually I've found a potion which can increase my Destruction damage by 30% for 45 secs, and there are poisons which can make enemies become weak to a element by 40%, but that enough isn't enough to improve spell damage consistently.

About dual casting, it is actually very cost inefficient because you will spend an extra 50-80% of magicka while getting about 20-40% of damage/duration increase. TWIN casting is much more effective magicka-spending wise. But dual casting with the impact perk is very useful and maybe even essential for late game survival.

About difficulty, after more thorough testing it seems you deal 100%, 75-80%, 60-66% damage, and receive 100%, 150%, 200% damage on adept, expert, and master correspondingly. So you can imagine how much one-shotting will occur at master, and when fighting the already higher level enemies you'll need to use a lot of magicka potions. On an interesting note, on higher difficulties your followers seems to become MUCH tougher than normal, my Lydia can tank extremely well at master, but once on adept she's two shotted by a saber cat. Thus on higher difficulties it seems you more or less must rely on followers to do most of the fighting, as you must spend 3x magicka to kill the tougher stuff and run out of juice fast, while your follower seems tougher than normal as she isn't affected by the extra punch dealt by monsters.

 

[msxyz]

I think leveling up too fast doesn't pay in this game. My first character hit lvl 20 very early. By then, I had hardly found any worthwhile weapon or armor, didn't have enough money for the best items in the shops and I was constantly raped by trolls and other critters which seem to be way stronger then dragons.

I started again with a new character and decided NOT to use any birth sign stone at all (especially those granting a 20% faster progression is skills) no trainers and no skill books. Now I'm at level 10, the world around me evolves at a slower pace and I have time and chances to collect better equipment.

On a side note, I gave up using mouse and keyboard and went for an Xbox gamepad

I couldn't find a key combination comfortable enough for me (I don't use WASD but directional keys, since I use the mouse with my left hand). Interaction with the UI is STILL bad even with the game pad (so I don't think consoles are to blame... Oblivion UI was more functional and the default buttons layout better designed as well) but at least I don't have to waltz all over the keyboard to perform the most basic functions.

Other than the UI, I sort of like this game though it's no masterpiece. It's better than Oblivion in many ways even if Bethesda made some incredibly stupid design decisions (ie the UI) but that's totally like them.

 

[Multidirectional]

I was on Master, but eventually just gave up and put it on Expert

Yeah, same. Switched to Expert yesterday after reaching level 18 on Master. Combat with stronger enemies just started to feel like a waste of time. Damn cave bears and trolls and whatnot.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

HEY MULTIHEADED COW

I've been told Oblivion GOTY edition is $5 on Steam.

My advice is to buy it, install FCOM convergence, and have an enjoyable enough time.
Or just buy/pirate Skyrim.

Edit: Wait a minute, can't remember if FCOM includes Deadly Reflex or not. If not, make sure you get that too.

 

[villain of the story]

Dragons do sweeping attacks while flying or stop mid-air to shower you with fire. Actually I haven't seen one land just to attack until it has lost 25+% of its HP (and obviously, stop flying completely when it drops to 50-%).

I have yet to see how a dragon can be killed mid-air for that dramatic crash-landing, like the one you see at pre-release video.

Biggest problem with dragons is that they don't require any in game expertise to kill. Just exhaust the HP until it dies. It's shit.

Man, I fucking failed my own TES lore check. Arena and Daggerfall allowed perpendicular and horizontal weapon swinging, so point there definitely conceded.

In Daggerfall, it's horizontal, diagonal and vertical (diagonals are one way down from left or right and considered the same as vertical down-swing). All three types have different parameters but sadly they don't really make as much difference as intended.

Form of input, however, is vastly superior to every FP melee combat in any game. And elegant too. Makes good use of what little input options you have and feels involved instead of passive button mashing.

And instead of expanding on Daggerfall's system, we've been getting the same retarded shit since Morrowind. That system could be expanded to be fairly realistic and tactical with stances and parrying.

- Blocking with weapon does nothing

I believe this to be partially true, and I'm glad it is. I can see being able to block a blade with a blade and I'm pretty sure you can as long as you're not dual-wielding, but that's the only non-blocking setup there is. Blocking with a two-hander should not be as effective as with a shield.

Why not? It's called fucking blocking. You either block or you do not. This "absorb more/less damage" approach is boring grindy bullshit. And this time around, we are given even an attack to attempt to break an opponent's block (shield/block bash). But wait, stamina is also a more involved matter now, factoring into combat so blocking could just as well consume stamina (as well as with regular attacks, except not as big a stamina hit as power attacks) and you could simply start failing to block anything with depleted stamina, turning combat into a far more tactical and elaborate affair. So why still stick to the same old shit?

MW did at least that part right despite the badly implemented To-Hit. When someone blocked with a shield, it literally meant he blocked, not just "minimised" the damage. Same with Daggerfall, of course, with dodge skill and parrying checks.

 

[Commissar Draco]

In Skyrim atleast sword and shield style is usefall since you have bashing and shield blocks fire and magic damage with right perk. Shame there's no option parry automaticly with success rate acording to your skill.
Love how armor and weapons can be upgraded when you're smith, this way my Legionary gear is up to the chalenge even on level 20. The fights are chalenging on medium dificulty when you have no Magic and bow which is not heavily trained for long range fight, good I picked my Housecarl.

 

[crazy_dave]

Guys is dual wielding viable? Or is it better to stick with sword and shield? If anyone has tried it... Also how about two handed?

 

[Trash]

Just had a pretty awesome fight with an orc on a snowy slope on master. Fucker insulted me and dared me to a fight so I bit. He had a sword and a shield and I decided to just go sword. Pretty cool to just weave in and out and see him do the same. Bitch even slapped me with the shield a few times. Not spamming potions and magic actually made it quite hard as well. Very Conan and all.

Dragons do sweeping attacks while flying or stop mid-air to shower you with fire. Actually I haven't seen one land just to attack until it has lost 25+% of its HP (and obviously, stop flying completely when it drops to 50-%).

Had one repeatedly land and take off again with full hp near the big lake west of the first bigger town. He was pretty much butchering local wildlife, some fishermen and bandits before leaving. Also saw quite a few that just fly circles for a bit before buggering off. Haven't seen one crash land yet, which make that video reek of more Bethesda bull.

 

[villain of the story]

Were it not not for a few simple things that break challenge, like health regen, potion spamming and abundant loot, the game could actually almost be hardcore.

 

[Data4]

I've yet to go out fighting with a companion, and can't be arsed to fire up the game right now to try this out, so a question for you guys who are using them--

Friendly fire: yes or no?

While combat is improved over Oblivion, it's still a mangled mess with all the maneuvering around, and whacking my companion because he/she is in the way would just piss me off.

 

[Gord]

Form of input, however, is vastly superior to every FP melee combat in any game. And elegant too. Makes good use of what little input options you have and feels involved instead of passive button mashing.

And instead of expanding on Daggerfall's system, we've been getting the same retarded shit since Morrowind. That system could be expanded to be fairly realistic and tactical with stances and parrying.

Yeah, should would could. Bethesda has obviously zero interest in creating a fencing simulator.
That being said I agree that the system we get is far too simplistic. However I'm very sceptic if it's easily possible to integrate character skill into a (mainly player skill driven) 1st person system in way that doesn't feel clumsy, simplistic or unnatural in the end.

Why not? It's called fucking blocking. You either block or you do not...

I agree with most of what you write in that paragraph. Even the most simplistic solution of just basing blocking on stamina to me at least seems like a much better solution than what the current system appears to be. Shields could cost less stamina than weapon-blocks and the skill level will determine the stamina cost. Add some perks and you might have something nice to work with.

 

[thesisko]

Were it not not for a few simple things that break challenge, like health regen, potion spamming and abundant loot, the game could actually almost be hardcore.

I disabled health regen and reduced mana regen via console. I'm considering also deleting all healing spells, that would make resource management much more crucial.

 

[anus_pounder]

Finishing moves can be performed on you if you aren't careful.

I found this orc who told me he was looking for a good death. Naturally, I told him I could give him one. Fucker hit real hard. He hit me several times and performed a cinematic kill on me when I was at 40% health. Second time around, I got lucky and didn't get finished. Won the fight, badly hurt.

Lv.10, Giants still one or two hit kill me. On the plus side, its dead easy to sneak up on one, sneak attack and then run away shooting arrows at it. Overall, I hate to say it, but I'm having some amount of fun with this game.

 

[PWSteal.Ldpinch.D]

Are they finishers or are they parries? Every so often I instakill a guy on the first hit or a hit or two in, in the first case maybe they were just low level health wise compared to me so they were given finisher status but I'm sure I've done the second on decent enemies.

 

[Luzur]

yesterday i was sneaking around a vampire nest, hid in a dark corner and when a vampire fledling came around it unaware of me i swung my two-hander blade and the game did that "stab in the stomach so hard that you lift them on your sword" move.

it was kinda cool.

 

[crufty]

Were it not not for a few simple things that break challenge, like health regen, potion spamming and abundant loot, the game could actually almost be hardcore.

I disabled health regen and reduced mana regen via console. I'm considering also deleting all healing spells, that would make resource management much more crucial.

Man

I have not found healing potions anywhere. I think I have two minor ones (l15).

The game is good. I really like it. It is a good challenge. There is also amazing detail. From faces of the old ones holding animal symbols to Nordic engravings on rando, wood beams. A lot of things for me to deduce, which I like. I prefer inference to csi style "the gun is smoking so it was just fired" style idiocy.

I am not worrying about level scaling for now. Fucking trolls are a god damn menace. They are essentially immune to arrows because of their regen and I am only armed with a dagger. I'm going to have to find an alternate weapon for close up non sneak combat.

This kind of challenge is good. I don't mind getting bitch slapped for being stupid. No dungeon has been easy. And even the random ones seem to have these ridiculous side stories. WHICH is how it should be.

Yeah dragons have been wrecking hunters. Also wedding parties. Better thems then mes amen.

 

[torpid]

Form of input, however, is vastly superior to every FP melee combat in any game. And elegant too. Makes good use of what little input options you have and feels involved instead of passive button mashing.

And instead of expanding on Daggerfall's system, we've been getting the same retarded shit since Morrowind. That system could be expanded to be fairly realistic and tactical with stances and parrying.

Yeah, should would could. Bethesda has obviously zero interest in creating a fencing simulator.
That being said I agree that the system we get is far too simplistic. However I'm very sceptic if it's easily possible to integrate character skill into a (mainly player skill driven) 1st person system in way that doesn't feel clumsy, simplistic or unnatural in the end.

But they keep stripping out or dumbing down the character skill elements and yet they can't be arsed to go all the way and design some proper action gameplay, with stances and different types of strikes and whatnot. If the combat was good (and they got rid of the level scaling) these games could be entertaining action-adventure titles; hell, a game like Risen is fairly similar -- an open-world game with simple RPG elements -- but the combat is far better. Parrying and timing one's attacks plays a much bigger role than in Oblivion/Skyrim (the combat in Skyrim seems to be essentially the same as in Oblivion, except with reduced HP to make the fights more "visceral"). And having a more developed combat system emphasizes player skill, so in a way Risen -- at least when playing a fighter -- is even more action-oriented than TES, but that makes for a better and more satisfying game. With Bethesda you get a bare-bones character system and dull combat.

 

[Commissar Draco]

You have MAJESTIC Hero who can fight with the arrow in his nose.... :patriot:

MAJESTIC

And BTW first mods are out to get rid of winkles, scars and dirt... Skyrim is not fagosexual enough for young Kwans.

 

[Neeshka]

It's really depressing when the combat in literally ancient games like diablo 1 or world of warcraft is more fun than skyrim.
Why couldn't bethesda have at least borrowed some concepts from established combat oriented action RPGs is something I'll never understand.

Melee is just so dull; it would have been so easy to add things like combo points/attacks, finishers or directional hits+blocking and stuff like reactive abilities or ripostes and so forth. Even charge up strikes.....

God it feels like they didn't even bother trying.

Even mount and blade had some elements of medieval combat done really well, they could have stolen at least a few ideas.

 

[Gord]

And BTW first mods are out to get rid of winkles, scars and dirt... Skyrim is not fagosexual enough for young Kwans.

I say fuck them. I play with my wrinkly Dunmer Jensen and am proud of it. Finaly a game again where the heroes don't look like they spend the last week in some fucking beauty salon.

Melee is just so dull; it would have been so easy to add things like combo points/attacks, finishers or directional hits+blocking and stuff like reactive abilities or ripostes and so forth. Even charge up strikes.....

There are power attacks, shield bashes and perks associated with it. It's not overly much, but more than you make out of it.

 

[crufty]

Form of input, however, is vastly superior to every FP melee combat in any game. And elegant too. Makes good use of what little input options you have and feels involved instead of passive button mashing.

And instead of expanding on Daggerfall's system, we've been getting the same retarded shit since Morrowind. That system could be expanded to be fairly realistic and tactical with stances and parrying.

Yeah, should would could. Bethesda has obviously zero interest in creating a fencing simulator.
That being said I agree that the system we get is far too simplistic. However I'm very sceptic if it's easily possible to integrate character skill into a (mainly player skill driven) 1st person system in way that doesn't feel clumsy, simplistic or unnatural in the end.

What would be nice is to have parry perks as part of each weapon skill. So, once someone gets to 40, have multiple levels of parry. Then have that factor in as an automatic parry when not attacking. Obviously parry should only work vs other weapons so not good vs creature attacks.

For some reason some bandits are ok with me but hate my horse. Not sure what the deal is there. Whatever, don't be hating on "lucky".

Other wishes...climb as a skill. Mounted combat. Pole arms. Crossbows. Oh, and for the horse, some way to whistle for it, maybe as a power. Bonus points if whistle has a range.

I am ok with not having dodge explicitly. And block perks are a good start.

I am digging all the vignettes. Come across two treasure hunters. Furious melee ensues. Find the treasure they were scoping out. Then up the hill a bit is their camp with clues. Beyond that, a destroyed huntsmen camp. Maybe related. Maybe not. All in all...nice!

 

[Clockwork Knight]

And BTW first mods are out to get rid of winkles, scars and dirt... Skyrim is not fagosexual enough for young Kwans.

I say fuck them. I play with my wrinkly Dunmer Jensen and am proud of it. Finaly a game again where the heroes don't look like they spend the last week in some fucking beauty salon.

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/top/

*sigh* There's already a "Nude females" mod, in the Top 5 obviously. Well, at least there are some useful performance enhancing mods like this and this, and this one should be useful for people who don't care about the lockpicking minigame.

...

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=45

I hate mods like this, In real medievil life what women would ever wear just a bikini and pantie MADE OF CHAINMALE? f***ing hell people, get off your viagra and quit poking your sausage out.

It begins. But for you it ends. Banned for trolling the Skyrim release threads. -mm

 

[abnaxus]

I am wondering on what difficulties do you guys play on? I am playing on Master since the beginning, but to be honest, as a pure mage, I feel the difficulty to be even more random.

For example, when exploring the tombs, I can kill a normal Draughr with a dual cast firebolt, but any other above Restless it seems it takes forever to kill. The main problem seems that just exactly like in Morrowind and Oblivion, difficulty levels only affect the damage you receive and the health of the enemies, and magic damage in Skyrim doesn't scale, so difficulty can become absurdly high when facing tougher than normal enemies. A guy on the bethsoft forums tested it out, monsters at master difficulty seems to be 4x as tough as normal. Doesn't mean well for a mage since there is FUCKING NO WAY to increase spell damage with equipment.

That's something I'm finding to be pretty annoying while trying to play a pure mage. While playing a melee guy you have a lot of opportunity to increase your damage output; new weapons, enchantments are not hard to come by. I'm level 13 or so and playing Master difficulty, and there are some monsters I simply can't kill without having to use a bunch of mana potions - if I can do enough damage to kill them at all. Dual-casted firebolt barely scratch some enemies (the health bar barely moves), and I can only cast it maybe 5 times before I'm completely out of magicka.

Unless there is equipment that increases spell damage output, playing a mage seems a bit unbalanced. I haven't looked at much outside of the destruction and conjuration lines, so maybe I'm missing something, though.

Yeah, that is exactly the problem with playing as a pure mage in Skyrim. There are enchantments and perks to greatly improve melee damage, but for magic, you can only get a 50% increase with SIX perks for three elements, and nothing else. Hmm actually I've found a potion which can increase my Destruction damage by 30% for 45 secs, and there are poisons which can make enemies become weak to a element by 40%, but that enough isn't enough to improve spell damage consistently.

About dual casting, it is actually very cost inefficient because you will spend an extra 50-80% of magicka while getting about 20-40% of damage/duration increase. TWIN casting is much more effective magicka-spending wise. But dual casting with the impact perk is very useful and maybe even essential for late game survival.

About difficulty, after more thorough testing it seems you deal 100%, 75-80%, 60-66% damage, and receive 100%, 150%, 200% damage on adept, expert, and master correspondingly. So you can imagine how much one-shotting will occur at master, and when fighting the already higher level enemies you'll need to use a lot of magicka potions. On an interesting note, on higher difficulties your followers seems to become MUCH tougher than normal, my Lydia can tank extremely well at master, but once on adept she's two shotted by a saber cat. Thus on higher difficulties it seems you more or less must rely on followers to do most of the fighting, as you must spend 3x magicka to kill the tougher stuff and run out of juice fast, while your follower seems tougher than normal as she isn't affected by the extra punch dealt by monsters.

Destruction sucks balls at high levels. Illusion is win button. With 100 illusion there's a perk that will let you control everything, including centurions, daedra and undead.

Alternatively you can enchant your gear so that you can cast destruction spells with ZERO mana cost. It requires 100 enchant though.