Vapourware RPGs that can legitimately be called masterpieces

[Galdred]

- Fallout (PC)
- Deus Ex (PC)
- Jagged Alliance 2 (PC)
- Warband (PC)
- Diablo (PC)
- Darklands (PC)
- Wasteland (C=64)
- Captive (Amiga)
- Hired Guns (Amiga)
- Dungeon Master (Atari ST)

Fallout: simplisitic single character turn based combat is a flaw, especially when it lets your companions show how retarded their AI is.
Deus Ex: Too easy, and the end game state only depends on what you do in the last 5 minutes or so. That certainly is a flaw

JA2: OK, this one is harder to find a flaw with, but the game can be finished in less than 8 minutes, because the guards and queen won't mind you blasting walls with an RPG:

This oversight certainly count as a flaw.

Warband: Siege AI. Enough said

Diablo: The fact that the game makes you feel like a hamster in a wheel, and require little skill other than perseverance to complete could count as a flaw.

Darklands: 90% trash mob encounters, especially once everyone is in plate armor. How is it not a flaw? Also, without spells, and a lack of encounter variety in the mid game, the RTwP combat becomes very simplistic.

Wasteland: Haven't played it

Captive: never got this one
Hired guns: Same here
Dungeon Master: How is real time an improvement in Dungeon crawlers?

All of the games that you mentioned and I have played definitely would deserve the masterwork status IMO, but I don't think the flawless approach is as objective as needed.
I'd rather have games that are so good that their flaws can be largely ignored count as masterpieces.

I don't see how Baldur's Gate is less worthy of being there than some of these entries. It had a lot of pointless trash mobs, and stupid "hidden object' parts, but that can be said of some of the games there too.

 

[razvedchiki]

diablo 2
it basically created a gerne of its own.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

JA2: OK, this one is harder to find a flaw with, but the game can be finished in less than 8 minutes, because the guards and queen won't mind you blasting walls with an RPG:

There's actually a cut scene after first combat where queen orders more guards around palace; so that speedrun may work as intended.

I think biggest flaws with JA 2 can be found on some shortcomings of AI, like inability to go from one elevation level to another or tend wounds.
Both of these AI issues makes holding sectors against black shirt attack with one merc possible; as long as there's flat roof to hide in and enough ammo.

 

[GarfunkeL]

1.13 fixes both issues.

 

[Fishy]

1.13 fixes both issues.

But Lilura said 1.12 was the only authoritative version of JA2. CHECKMATE!

 

[Beastro]

Yeah yeah yeah you have a blog or something. Don't get a swelled head.

Too late.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

And now I will have to replay FO. Damn it.

 

[Roguey]

But Lilura said 1.12 was the only authoritative version of JA2. CHECKMATE!

It also adds a whole ton of stuff of arguable quality.

 

[fantadomat]

Arcanum,deus ex, Torment and ELEX!

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Don't talk shit about Darklands.

 

[Galdred]

I didn't! I played Darklands for the first time in 2007, and I really loved it. I totally agree it is a masterpiece, between its atmosphere, its character sheets, and the fact that it didn't make me walk several minutes in each town to find the tavern, the church and the shopkeepers. But calling it flawless is pushing it a bit too far.

 

[The_Mask]

We should lock Lilura and Darth Roxor in a room.

* * *
Days: 1 - 3:

Lilura on one side of the room screaming: JAGGED ALLIANCE 2 IS A MASTERPIECE!!!

Darth Roxor on the opposite end screaming: FIVE POINTS FOR ELEX!!!

Days 4 - 6:

Swapping of furtive looks. Hands may accidentally touch leading to faint roses in sweet cheeks.

Days 7 onwards:

Intense fucking.

* * *

A new generation of RPG aficionados is born: the JA 2 - ELEX hybrid*. And they will hunt you down with their... authoritative write-ups and love for mistranslated Chinese videogames.

Spoiler

*Nicknames may vary, but most of them will be taken from WarHammer.

 

[octavius]

Day 8: After mating Lilura eats Darth Roxor.

 

[Citizen]

On a serious note, there's no such thing as flawless. If you analyze anything long enough you will always find imperfections, because there's always a way something could have been done better. It's just that when we're talking about masterpieces, we are talking about great, memorable and interesting games, and when the overall impression is good, these flaws can be forgiven

If you really think that anything can be flawless as in impossible to improve - you are wrong

 

[Funposter]

On a serious note, there's no such thing as flawless

have you ever played tony hawk's pro skater 2?

 

[Citizen]

have you ever played tony hawk's pro skater 2?

I was once stuck in a hospital with a spine trauma for a few weeks and I just played pros skater (4 I think was) on a PS1 with the dude I shared ward with. So since then I cannot tolerate this game cuz I'm just sick of it

 

[Theldaran]

I agree about Diablo, but I played it in late 90s, so I was on time.

I have Deus Ex and JA2 from bundles, so I really should put them to use.

 

[Lord Andre]

Is anyone ever going to mention how JA2 becomes mind-numbingly boring half-way through?

Don't agree?

suck my dick

 

[Lilura]

By the way guys, I never said Jagged Alliance 2 was a flawless victory. I even said in the OP that it isn't a perfect game (and the OP has not been edited). However, in respect to games that are accepted as RPGs on the 'Dex, on Wikipedia, and on my blog (which is, perhaps, the most authoritative source of all), Jagged Alliance 2 has come closest to perfection, is an immortal masterpiece, and has, indeed, occupied god-tier all alone, by itself, for the last two decades.

 

[overly excitable young man]

I'm not sure. Does Lilura really have a blog?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I'm not sure. Does Lilura really have a blog?

One blog to rule them all.

 

[overly excitable young man]

Hi there! My name's Lilura1 and welcome to my blog. For its treatment range, the Role-playing
Game Renaissance (Core: 1996-2002), this blog contains three main forms of content:
retrospectives, reviews and pro-tips. As you may have gathered from the image above, the
coverage is mostly for Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights; however, other Renaissance
role-playing games receive coverage, too, such as Fallout, Jagged Alliance 2 and Diablo 2.

 

[Lilura]

By the way guys, I never said Jagged Alliance 2 was a flawless victory. I even said in the OP that it isn't a perfect game (and the OP has not been edited). However, in respect to games that are accepted as RPGs on the 'Dex, on Wikipedia, and on my blog (which is, perhaps, the most authoritative source of all), Jagged Alliance 2 has come closest to perfection, is an immortal masterpiece, and has, indeed, occupied god-tier all alone, by itself, for the last two decades.

To expand on this a little, what is also impressive is that Jagged Alliance 2 is one of the most ambitious RPGs ever made. I won't say the most ambitious but we're talking broad vision from the devs here. So we have the vision coupled with the execution and coding wizardry, which is very rare in the genre.

 

[biggestboss]

Speaking of ambitious, the amount of effort and money that SirTech put into the voiceover and portrait animations for Jagged Alliance 2 and Wizardry 8 always impressed me. The combination of the two (and relative conciseness of the dialog in comparison to bloated modern CRPGs) feels like some golden formula that only they were able to concoct and execute properly. I wonder if it had anything to do with SirTech going bankrupt however.

 

[Theldaran]

"Perhaps the most authoritative source of all"

Totally not narcissistic lol