Vapourware RPGs that can legitimately be called masterpieces

[Verylittlefishes]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but The Void.

hell, it's so majestic and arcane I can't even find any imgur-hosted screenshots at the moment

I know your ADHD ass won't bother to look it up, especially without screens posted in the thread. Oh well you're loss. Amazing piece of art you're missing out on.

EDIT: Just heard it was made by the makers of Pathologic. OK here you go you bastids

The Void is more screensaver (or date simulator on PCP) than RPG, but yes, it is the masterpiece. Impossible to beat, though.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Masterpiece RPG

strategy game

Nigga what

 

[lophiaspis]

If we are talking about 5/5, 10/10, all-round flawless RPG then I’m not sure that such exists yet. There are no such all-round excellent RPGs in the way that, say, Starcraft is a 10/10 RTS. Closest contender would probably be Witcher 3. Crusader Kings 2 is also up there if it counts as RPG (and I think it does). BG2 and QFG1 are also close but none are flawless in the way Starcraft is. So we are still waiting.

 

[RickOmbo]

There are none, all of them suck at combat.

Spoiler

Maybe Disco Elysium.

 

[Lilura]

It's clear to me that many people posting ITT haven't played Jagged Alliance 2.

So, maybe it's time to leave Castle Codex for a while, return to my Stronghold (lilura1.blogspot.com), and start planning my crusade against the infidels...

 

[Verylittlefishes]

There are none, all of them suck at combat.

Spoiler

Maybe Disco Elysium.

It's clear to me that many people posting ITT haven't played Jagged Alliance 2.

So, maybe it's time to leave Castle Codex for a while, return to my Stronghold (lilura1.blogspot.com), and start planning my crusade against the infidels...

I thought JA2 is TBS.

 

[Lilura]

I thought JA2 is TBS.

It doesn't matter what you think, infidel. The 'Dex rates JA2 14th all-time. Monocled 'Dexers at least rate it top 5; the most monocled no. 1. To give you a picture, the 'Dex rates a shallow popamole like Gothic 2 above JA2, when JA2 has more reactivity in its questing, exploration, critical path and dialogue than Gothic, Gothic 2 and Gothic 3 put together.

Not to mention JA2 is isometric, turn-based and party-based (from solo to three squads of six).

JA2 is GOAT.

 

[Lilura]

Here is what the 'Dex rates above Jagged Alliance 2:

1. Planescape: Torment (the second most overrated RPG of its era)
2. Fallout (this is where it belongs, just beneath JA2)
3. BG2 (the most overrated RPG of its era; generic as it gets)
4. Arcanum (ranked too highly; should be about 7th)
5. Vampire Bloodlines (an edgy, bug-ridden popamole for hipsters)
6. Fallout 2 (a mod of Fallout)
7. Oblivion With Guns: New Vegas (a mod of Oblivion With Guns)
8. Deus Ex (it's top 3 all-time)
9. Gothic 2 (cuts a poor figure in any top 10)
10. Morrowind (a shitstain on the genre; a hiking sim)
11. Age of Decadence (deserves to be in any 'Dex top 10)
12. Dark Souls (overrated popamole)
13. Poncefinder: Cuckmaker (grossly overrated current gen Baldur's Gate clone)
14. Jagged Alliance 2

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Here is what the 'Dex rates above Jagged Alliance 2:

1. Planescape: Torment (the second most overrated RPG of its era)
2. Fallout (this is where it belongs, just beneath JA2)
3. BG2 (the most overrated RPG of its era; generic as it gets)
4. Arcanum (ranked too highly; should be about 7th)
5. Vampire Bloodlines (an edgy, bug-ridden popamole for hipsters)
6. Fallout 2 (a mod of Fallout)
7. Oblivion With Guns: New Vegas (a mod of Oblivion With Guns)
8. Deus Ex (it's top 3 all-time)
9. Gothic 2 (cuts a poor figure in any top 10)
10. Morrowind (a shitstain on the genre; a hiking sim)
11. Age of Decadence (deserves to be in any 'Dex top 10)
12. Dark Souls (overrated popamole)
13. Poncefinder: Cuckmaker (grossly overrated current gen Baldur's Gate clone)
14. Jagged Alliance 2

Wow, you're so suggestive. Wish you had a blog or something.

 

[razvedchiki]

Why is pork souls considered a rpg?

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

Diablo.

Diablo is a masterpiece.

I have fond memories of Diablo, but calling it a masterpiece is a bit too much.

 

[Lichtbringer]

Diablo: "Masterpiece"
Baldur's Gate 2: "The most overrated RPG of its era; generic as it gets"

dis thread bro

 

[octavius]

Here is what the 'Dex rates above Jagged Alliance 2:

1. Planescape: Torment (the second most overrated RPG of its era)
2. Fallout (this is where it belongs, just beneath JA2)
3. BG2 (the most overrated RPG of its era; generic as it gets)
4. Arcanum (ranked too highly; should be about 7th)
5. Vampire Bloodlines (an edgy, bug-ridden popamole for hipsters)
6. Fallout 2 (a mod of Fallout)
7. Oblivion With Guns: New Vegas (a mod of Oblivion With Guns)
8. Deus Ex (it's top 3 all-time)
9. Gothic 2 (cuts a poor figure in any top 10)
10. Morrowind (a shitstain on the genre; a hiking sim)
11. Age of Decadence (deserves to be in any 'Dex top 10)
12. Dark Souls (overrated popamole)
13. Poncefinder: Cuckmaker (grossly overrated current gen Baldur's Gate clone)
14. Jagged Alliance 2

Did you even vote in the poll?

Anyway, for me there were two issues that made JA2 not quite being the awesomest game of all time:
1. Rather boring encounter design. But I guess that's the price you pay for having a realistic setting. X-Com was more exciting in this area. Although it does have a thinly disguised Cleve Blakemore.

2. Hard to find the optimal version to play on a modern computer.
Straciatella doesn't have the same options when it comes to screen resolution as 1.13 does, but 1.13 Vanilla is severely bugged. And there seems to be no concensus what is the up to date version of the full 1.13.

 

[Lilura]

Did you even vote in the poll?

No. At the time, I was too busy with my own polls:

Anyway, for me there were two issues that made JA2 not quite being the awesomest game of all time:
1. Rather boring encounter design. But I guess that's the price you pay for having a realistic setting. X-Com was more exciting in this area. Although it does have a thinly disguised Cleve Blakemore.

There are melee attacks, ranged attacks, super long-ranged attacks, burst attacks, AoE attacks, rooftop attacks, crepitus attacks, bloodcat attacks, tanks, alarms, destructibility, tactical detonations etc. There is stealth and camo. There is also phased encounter design, which ToEE has as well. For example, you can injure someone and dialogue pops up that allows them to be reasoned with/surrender/hand something over.

Yes, we mostly go up against humans. As you say, it's realistic unless we go sci-fi mode for crepitus (of which there are a few kinds). But each human can do much more than just attack. They can pick up and use items in the gameworld. Also, consider their movement and stances: each enemy can walk, run, climb, duckwalk, army crawl, strafe, backpedal, swim and vault over fencelines. This leaves other RPGs in the dust.

2. Hard to find the optimal version to play on a modern computer.
Straciatella doesn't have the same options when it comes to screen resolution as 1.13 does, but 1.13 Vanilla is severely bugged. And there seems to be no concensus what is the up to date version of the full 1.13.

1.13 is not the official Sir-Tech game, though. It's a mod. So is Strac. The official 1.12 version is rocksolid, and runs under Strac reliably.

 

[d1nolore]

Why is BG2 the most overrated game of its era? I thought it was the best RPG I had played until I encountered Arcanum.

 

[Lilura]

Why is BG2 the most overrated game of its era?

It's 3rd-ranked on 'Dex.

It's got a 95% rating from 30 "critics" on metacritic. For the 20th anniversary of the original Baldur's Gate, PC Gamer talked about BG2, which it wasn't the anniversary for. Its community is packed full of elitists of the worst kind, from its modders to its players. They think they are tacticians, and that BG2 is hardcore. But they love banter and romances, too.

So yeah, 95% rating from 30 "critics", yet there are no critic ratings for JA2 on metacritic. Not one.

BG2 has 1,324 user ratings for 9.2; JA2 has 154 at 8.8.

 

[Atchodas]

But they love banter and romances, too.

Faggots.

 

[Urthor]

The Nameless Mod

 

[Pink Eye]

Here is what the 'Dex rates above Jagged Alliance 2:

1. Planescape: Torment (the second most overrated RPG of its era)
2. Fallout (this is where it belongs, just beneath JA2)
3. BG2 (the most overrated RPG of its era; generic as it gets)
4. Arcanum (ranked too highly; should be about 7th)
5. Vampire Bloodlines (an edgy, bug-ridden popamole for hipsters)
6. Fallout 2 (a mod of Fallout)
7. Oblivion With Guns: New Vegas (a mod of Oblivion With Guns)
8. Deus Ex (it's top 3 all-time)
9. Gothic 2 (cuts a poor figure in any top 10)
10. Morrowind (a shitstain on the genre; a hiking sim)
11. Age of Decadence (deserves to be in any 'Dex top 10)
12. Dark Souls (overrated popamole)
13. Poncefinder: Cuckmaker (grossly overrated current gen Baldur's Gate clone)
14. Jagged Alliance 2

Why is Baldur's Gate 1 not even on that list..... Also thanks for mentioning Pathfinder.

 

[Roguey]

So yeah, 95% rating from 30 "critics", yet there are no critic ratings for JA2 on metacritic. Not one.

That's due to laziness/lack of motivation. The classic reviews are certainly there (though more difficult to find since a lot of those old sites have gone defunct)

Here are the big two, both positive https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/jagged-alliance-2-review/1900-2535569/ https://www.ign.com/articles/1999/08/03/jagged-alliance-2

 

[biggestboss]

Why is Baldur's Gate 1 not even on that list..... Also thanks for mentioning Pathfinder.

The collective Codex rated BG1 below JA2 so that's why it isn't in the above list.

 

[DeepOcean]

Deus Ex is one of my favorite games but it sure as shit is not a masterpiece if going by the definition that a masterpiece is an as-close-as-possible-to-perfect work.

Without mentioning that the levels on New York are one of the best designed levels I played on a hybrid FPS/RPG , Hong Kong isn't bad but the story takes a nose dive after you leave UNATCO (it is a big failure on roleplaying you being railroaded into not being able to remain at UNATCO, what I don't understand to this day), the whole Paris section is absolutely dreadful, it doesn't even seem to belong on the same game. Really is one of the best RPGs made but masterpiece? Nope.

I would consider that if the quality on level design was sustained through the whole game and you could remain at UNATCO.

 

[razvedchiki]

the adventures of geralto riviero 3.

 

[Lord_Potato]

Subjectivity is strong with the above post.

 

[Fishy]

Deus Ex is one of my favorite games but it sure as shit is not a masterpiece if going by the definition that a masterpiece is an as-close-as-possible-to-perfect work.

Without mentioning that the levels on New York are one of the best designed levels I played on a hybrid FPS/RPG , Hong Kong isn't bad but the story takes a nose dive after you leave UNATCO (it is a big failure on roleplaying you being railroaded into not being able to remain at UNATCO, what I don't understand to this day), the whole Paris section is absolutely dreadful, it doesn't even seem to belong on the same game. Really is one of the best RPGs made but masterpiece? Nope.

I would consider that if the quality on level design was sustained through the whole game and you could remain at UNATCO.

Imho time hasn't been kind to Deus Ex either, and if one is trying to define 'masterpiece' then an engine that can age gracefully could arguably be part of it. I have very very fond memories of the Hong Kong section, mostly the gameplay (didn't like Miss Chow, threw her out the window, and was amazed at how the game just dealt with it, including the people in the street below being in a state of panic when I came out of the building afterwards), but also the whole look and feel of the place. Then... watched the wife play through the game a couple years ago and could hardly believe that ugly empty bad FPS level was what all these memories came from.

There's a lot to be said for good raster art or more artistic 3d rendering techniques (low poly, cel shading...) in order to withstand the ravages of time. For another cyberpunk comparison, the HBS Shadowrun games will imho maintain a lot of their appeal over time when Deus Ex will simply become harder and harder for new gamers to play.