RPG design should be about...

[luj1]

Purity of vision is the most important

 

[Sweeper]

Codex is not a hivemind either way. There are plenty here obsessed with mechanics and systems, who think Pathfinder is the greatest thing since sliced bread and the feeling of walking along the coastline in Morrowind and soaking up the atmosphere is for fags.

Based and redpilled.

I'll admit immersion and world design is probably my biggest priority. If the immersion is amazing, and I feel like I'm exploring a cool place, I can forgive failings in other areas.

Cringe and bluepilled.

 

[Serus]

One might think that gameplay would be the obvious choice, but in all fairness and honesty, the most beloved cRPGs on the Codex aren't the ones with great gameplay or even good, well-designed mechanics. If you take a look at the Codex Top Ten, there's maybe two games there that aren't consistently discussed in terms like "oh, yeah, the combat is awful and terrible, the dungeon design is comically bad, the character building is kind of broken, half of these skills/abilities/doohickeys are objectively useless and did you know that this complex roleplaying subsystem here is totally bugged out and doesn't even do anything? Oh man, but seriously, the game is so good!"

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the ticket to being a great, beloved cRPG doesn't have that much to do with the mechanics, or at least their inherent quality and polish. Rather - and I don't really know which category it would fit - I think the most critical aspect is whether the gameworld is interesting or not. RPG fans will clearly tolerate utterly mediocre or straight-up bad game mechanics - at least to some extent - if the world the game would have them inhabit possesses the kind of charm and intrigue that exploring it is its own reward.

That doesn't mean that mechanics aren't important. Doubtlessly they are. What's more, even broken, humdrum mechanics can be applied to the task of making a world fun and engaging to explore and do things in. However, whereas in many other genres, good gameplay is sufficient to carry a game all on its own, I don't think that is the case in an RPG - good mechanics in an uninteresting world amount to nothing. Obviously having good mechanics is a plus, but the quality of the world is the foundation that everything else rests on.

Who cares what the majority have as "beloved" or "great"? You are talking here about popularity. What does it matter what "crpg playesrs" accept as poor mechanics or not? They accepted Oblivion as a good game and love romances in CRPGs too. If You want to base your design "ideal" on catering to the majority, be my guest. But I think Your whole premise is based on a terrible fallacy. So yes if the ideal for your main design goal is to make game as popular or "beloved" as possible and make a lot of money - then you are 100% right. Sorry if i disagree that this is an "ideal" design goal at all though.
Interesting world and bad mechanics can make an interesting game - an adventure one, the genre often doesn't have many advanced mechanics to begin with (there are exceptions though so I might be wrong). Or a visual novel. An interesting game in many aspects perhaps but will be a bad crpg 100% of the time. The opposite is not true, there are good crpgs with little immersion and basic world building. A very good game in some aspects but a bad crpg overall. Like Planescape. BTW I counted ~5 games that have good gameplay mechanics in the top 10. Also what argument is this: "Some codexers are bitching about it constantly"? That's what we do for a living. And if you bothered to scroll lover, you will find that the majority of games have good systems. The ones that go to the top are - surprise - the most popular ones. The most well known to the majority of codexers as in any such poll everywhere. This polls are always about, you guessed it, popularity not quality. I for once, as "ideal", don't take the final product popularity as any kind of goal. And you shouldn't either. Unless you are a game developer making a commercial game. But even then it shouldn't be the main consideration as far as design goals are concerned. Hopefully making a good game should. Whether it will be popular or beloved by many should be of no consequence to the player - which almost everyone in this thread are.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Purity of vision is the most important

 

[gurugeorge]

They should create a virtual world simulation and abstract as much away from it as they need to to create good gameplay.

But of course it's not actually possible to work that way yet, so they're forced to create "gameplay systems" and as much of a Potemkin virtual world as they've got time for around that.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

"character and plot driven" -- VTMB
"systems and gameplay driven" -- ToEE
" immersion and roleplay driven" -- Arcanum

 

[vortex]

"character and plot driven" -- VTMB
"systems and gameplay driven" -- ToEE
" immersion and roleplay driven" -- Arcanum

BG2 is all of this, IMO.

 

[BING XI LAO]

RPGs are about immersion into another world, but that immersion can come from engaging with character mechanics, from visuals, from story, or from setting/exploration, so as long as couple of those are good you're all set.

 

[Funposter]

cool graphics

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Pointed ears.

 

[guestposting]

"character and plot driven" -- VTMB
"systems and gameplay driven" -- ToEE
" immersion and roleplay driven" -- Arcanum

BG2 is all of this, IMO.

lol fuck no