Review RPG Codex Review: Pillars of Eternity, by Decado

[Jasede]

Well, we tried, but then the Soviets and the Americans stopped it...

 

[Peter_the_Bard]

I admit it is a bit surprising there has been no comment from administrators yet regarding the positive review being the only one on the curator page. Since the curator page is officially called RPGCodex it represents this site, no matter which mod(s) is running it. If only the positive review is allowed to stand there, despite most here disagreeing with it, then I have to sadly admit this will be the day RPGCodex entered a real and permanent decline. This website is supposed to be the last bastion; we don't suck up to any developers or company no matter how much we might like them. We judge games based on merit alone.

There will be people, many lurkers, who still believe Codex knows it's rpgs and may be influenced in their purchase decision due to the curator page.

 

[Decado]

Just for clarification, I didn't write this review to be "pro-PoE" beyond stating that I liked it. I also did not write it as a counter to Roxor's review. I thought I was asked to write it because Roxxor's review -- while full of salient points -- reads like a rant, and not something you'd want to throw on the front page.

If the staff of the Codex are using the piece I wrote as political fodder (and I'm not saying they are, because I'm not privy to those conversations) then that's on them. It wasn't written to curry favor with Obsidian. Frankly -- and I know this sounds arrogant but fuck it -- If I want to curry favor with Obsidian, I will do it in person. I don't need to do it on the fucking internet.

Finally, my piece should probably not be the review representing the opinion of the Codex on Steam, since it appears that the forum is much less pleased with the game than I am.

 

[Jasede]

Damn right you are!
Though I maintain quite a few of our classic reviews read like rants.

 

[Western]

I like the rants and critical stuff, it's a sad day when something like VDs brilliant Morrowind review (whether you agree with it or not), wouldn't be linked to the curator page. Different opinions should be on that page, it's better to give consumers different opinions than try to move units by only linking positive pieces.

 

[Tigranes]

Are we Fox News now, that we label reviews "Positive Man" and "Negative Man" and need one of each? Roxor's review wasn't a 'negative review'. He didn't write it to 'give the negative point of view'. He said POE was shit because he thought it was shit. Meanwhile, I like POE, but I hated on decado's review, because I thought it was a bad review. It astounds me that so many Codexers want to emulate the best of BSN/Gamefaqs and pin everybody into black and white, it's like watching Xbox vs. Playstation mudfights.

And yeah, I don't even know what the curator page is, does it usually put up every Codex review? Or is decado's an exception for some reason?

 

[Infinitron]

I like the rants and critical stuff, it's a sad day when something like VDs brilliant Morrowind review (whether you agree with it or not), wouldn't be linked to the curator page. Different opinions should be on that page, it's better to give consumers different opinions than try to move units by only linking positive pieces.

VD doesn't have a Morrowind review. Perhaps you're thinking of the Oblivion review.

Do you understand what the Steam curator is for? It's a list of recommendations. The games on it show up on people's Steam front pages, telling them "You should buy this!", if they follow us. And no, they don't get to see a caption from the review or anything.

So to link to VD's Oblivion review, the Codex would have to recommend that people buy Oblivion. Kind of cutting off your nose to spite your face, don't you think?

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

And yeah, I don't even know what the curator page is, does it usually put up every Codex review? Or is decado's an exception for some reason?

Steam Curator page:
http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6866630-RPG-Codex-(Official)/
edit:

Finally, my piece should probably not be the review representing the opinion of the Codex on Steam, since it appears that the forum is much less pleased with the game than I am.

While I agree with this, the idea of Roxxor representing the Codex doesn't sit well with me either. Heck, I may do a review myself, being the trusted authority on RPGs that I am.

 

[markec]

So the question is why is this game even recommended by Codex curator page? Its little awkward that the official first review says the game is bad but we still recommend it.

Then people say its not a real review, we are waiting for a official one by esteemed VD a celebrated veteran who just recently praised mediocre game called W2, so he will surely give a good score to this.

But then VD said that review is put on hold seeing how the game is so banal shit boring that even he is unable to force himself to go past Act 2 (and he managed to finish Oblivion).

Boy wasnt that even more awkward and in the same time funny as hell hearing countless butthurt screams of fanboys.

Only solution was to quickly find one fanboy who can write coherent sentences and even quicker release a positive review no matter how half assed it is.

 

[Western]

I like the rants and critical stuff, it's a sad day when something like VDs brilliant Morrowind review (whether you agree with it or not), wouldn't be linked to the curator page. Different opinions should be on that page, it's better to give consumers different opinions than try to move units by only linking positive pieces.

VD doesn't have a Morrowind review. Perhaps you're thinking of the Oblivion review.

Do you understand what the Steam curator is for? It's a list of recommendations. The games on it show up on people's Steam front pages, telling them "You should buy this!", if they follow us.

Are we in contract with Steam? Someone who just clicks on a link and buys isn't reading our reviews anyway. Put up some different opinions and let people who bother looking at the reviews in the curator page make a more informed decision.

Even a lot of the games we love have flaws, for some those flaws are a bigger deal then for others.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm going to try to ignore the fact that I'm being asked to add Oblivion to the official RPG Codex curator, and just make another point.

Every curation can point to one single external URL. There's no different opinions, just one opinion. Here's how the interface looks like:

Note that the link to the review is visible from only two places - from our Steam curator's page, which there's little reason for anybody to read after they've followed us, and on the game's store page IF we're the largest curator the user is currently following.

On the user's Steam front page, there's no review, no review link, just a recommendation to buy the game.

 

[Western]

Just link it to a page where you can link more than one review. Also I was thinking of a Morrowind review, I thought it was VDs but whoever wrote (and whatever site it was), I remember it sticking in my mind for criticising the hiking simulator design and pointing out the game was originally designed as an MMO, using that as a basis for criticising an empty, lifeless quality the game had in the eyes of the reviewer.

Edit: I already know about the way recommendations look, this is for the benefit of people who bother clicking the review link by comming to our curator pages.

 

[Infinitron]

Just link it to a page where you can link more than one review.

Yeah, I think you're overthinking this now.

As it happens, though, the OP of this thread actually does link to Roxor's review.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I always thought the Codex was the sort of place where a game could be recommended to someone looking for a certain type ("if you're looking for a recent iso party-based rtwp dungeon-crawler then PoE is your best bet") while still being ripped apart by a review calling it "mediocre" and not living up to high expectations. That sums up the Codex to me, all the classics have plenty of critics. That's why I was surprised that Roxor's review was never linked when it came out.

I never thought of the Codex as the type of forum that would need to find a 'positive' review so it could be linked to a recommendation list (assuming that post in this thread about another positive review in production is correct). But perhaps I was mistaken in that impression, or alternatively the Codex is changing and deliberately becoming more dev-friendly.

 

[Western]

That's my thinking as well Zorba, we can recommend something without necessarily giving it glowing praise.

 

[Infinitron]

I never thought of the Codex as the type of forum that would need to find a 'positive' review so it could be linked to a recommendation list

We didn't set out to find anything.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...illars-of-eternity.98676/page-46#post-3878068

A month or so later, this review. That's all there is to it, and everything else is the conspiracy mongering I mocked earlier today by madlibbing Lee Atwater and Irving Kristol quotes.

a game could be recommended to someone looking for a certain type ("if you're looking for a recent iso party-based rtwp dungeon-crawler then PoE is your best bet") while still being ripped apart by a review calling it "mediocre" and not living up to high expectations

Not on our curator, sorry.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Not on our curator, sorry.

Why not?

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I never thought of the Codex as the type of forum that would need to find a 'positive' review so it could be linked to a recommendation list

We didn't set out to find anything.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...illars-of-eternity.98676/page-46#post-3878068

A month or so later, this review. That's all there is to it, and everything else is the conspiracy mongering I mocked earlier today by madlibbing Lee Atwater and Irving Kristol quotes.

So there's no 3rd review in production then? Ok. As a newfag pleb who doesn't read the staff forums I just form impressions based on what I read in these threads and it was suggested that there's another 'positive' review in production to be linked to the curator.

 

[Western]

Also Zorba, I enjoyed PoE, it probably doesn't look like it because I'm not reluctant about levelling criticism to the title and am clashing with people who are more reluctant, which removes nuance from the discussion, but I'm still able to enjoy it as a sum of its parts.

I think the reason the game has not been universally well received is that it falls short as a storyfag game. When I backed this I adjusted my expectations to be great storyfag game with bad combat. The combat while not necessarily terrible is better than say KOTOR 1 & 2. However the writing is uneven, lots of mediocre writing with some high and low points, terrible backer content that has to be ignored, complaints about lore dump NPCs, most people only seem to like 2 of the characters and are meh about the rest, that's not necessarily bad but it's around NWN2 OC level, competent enough but short of expectations and previous work.

 

[tuluse]

I always thought the Codex was the sort of place where a game could be recommended to someone looking for a certain type ("if you're looking for a recent iso party-based rtwp dungeon-crawler then PoE is your best bet") while still being ripped apart by a review calling it "mediocre" and not living up to high expectations. That sums up the Codex to me, all the classics have plenty of critics. That's why I was surprised that Roxor's review was never linked when it came out.

I never thought of the Codex as the type of forum that would need to find a 'positive' review so it could be linked to a recommendation list (assuming that post in this thread about another positive review in production is correct). But perhaps I was mistaken in that impression, or alternatively the Codex is changing and deliberately becoming more dev-friendly.

If you are telling someone to try a game, you tell why they might like it. You might temper this with why they won't, but you don't say "try this game, it sucks".

This is just like obvious human communication right?

Now on the otherhand you might say, "why are we recommending poe at all", and the answer to that is that despite Roxor's personal beliefs, it is more probable than not that a good percentage of the codex likes it. When I say a good percentage, I mean more than the majority of games on the list currently.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

If you are telling someone to try a game, you tell why they might like it. TYou might temper this with why they won't, but you don't say "try this game, it sucks".

I associate a salesman with emphasising good points and skimming over the bad. "Try this game, it sucks" sounds a lot more Codexian to me tbh .

But as I said, perhaps I was mistaken in that impression or it's no longer the case.

 

[Infinitron]

The Codex has lots of reviews that go "This game SUCKS in so many ways...but I like it!"

In fact, some of our best reviews fit that pattern, and I'm happy to link to them. But, that's not how I would characterize Roxor's PoE review.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

The Codex has lots of reviews that go "This game SUCKS in so many ways...but I like it!"

In fact, some of our best reviews fit that pattern, and I'm happy to link to them. But, that's not how I would characterize Roxor's PoE review.

Well, in this case: Roxor is the one saying "This game SUCKS" and Infinitron the Steam curator is the one saying "...but I like it!".

 

[Tigranes]

As to whether POE should be 'recommended', now that I finally see this curator page I see games like Alpha Protocol, which surely does not enjoy a higher or less controversial repute in the Codex than POE, and I also see games like Invisible Inc, which seems to be reasonably well regarded but I would bet that only a small minority of Codexers even played. *shrug* Seems a pretty inclusive list.

As to reviews, yeah, it'd be nice to link to both reviews. If roxor's review was considered too ranty to be a review, it should never have been OK'd. Since it has been, it should also be good enough for this or whatever else.

That said, there's so much pointless tinfoiling - some people sound like they think infinitron ordered decado to write a positive review just so it could go on a curator page, as if this is some kind of mafia where poor random Codexers get commanded to do labour. Using the same logic, clearly there is a properly Byzantine intrigue going on behind the scenes, where the swarthy purple-cloaked Jaesun (sorry, picked one at random) has ordered the hook-nosed Roxor to produce a Negative Review (TM), and the round-eyed Infinitron, pissing himself in fury, summons decado while nervously fiddling with his necklace containing a Josh Sawyer portrait.

 

[Jaesun]

We only picked this review because of all the massive butthurt and OUTRAGE it would cause...