Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous

[ga♥]

I wonder how long Baldurs Gate series is front to back. Probably similar to Wrath.

The length is hardly the games biggest issue though.

I wonder how long Baldurs Gate series is front to back. Probably similar to Wrath.

The length is hardly the games biggest issue though.

I'd wager BG+ToSC is 100 hours for a completionist. BG2 +ToB is probably 200-250 for a completionist. The major difference is that BG is comparatively freeform. There is rarely anything in your way, like crusade management or even being constrained to the overworld path. Both WotR and KM feel like they are constantly slowing the player down. Even dialogues.

bg2+tob completionist run is more likely around 60-70 hours, probably less...

 

[Maculo]

I wonder how long Baldurs Gate series is front to back. Probably similar to Wrath.

The length is hardly the games biggest issue though.

BG and BG2 is an interesting comparison. I am curious how many trash encounters WotR has compared to BG or BG2.

I don’t know if my issues with WotR were due to Owlcat’s encounter design or pathfinder’s systems in general. Absent meta builds, I cannot imagine going through the map with a suboptimal build.

 

[Kev Inkline]

I wonder how long Baldurs Gate series is front to back. Probably similar to Wrath.

The length is hardly the games biggest issue though.

I wonder how long Baldurs Gate series is front to back. Probably similar to Wrath.

The length is hardly the games biggest issue though.

I'd wager BG+ToSC is 100 hours for a completionist. BG2 +ToB is probably 200-250 for a completionist. The major difference is that BG is comparatively freeform. There is rarely anything in your way, like crusade management or even being constrained to the overworld path. Both WotR and KM feel like they are constantly slowing the player down. Even dialogues.

bg2+tob completionist run is more likely around 60-70 hours, probably less...

Wrong. The median (145 average) is 150h without tob, which adds another 27h.

https://howlongtobeat.com/game/810

 

[Fedora Master]

I was thinking: Compare the average BG dungeons like say Ulcaster or the Candlekeep basement to the average dungeon in Wrath. Ulcaster has maybe 20 kobolds and a handful of traps, Candlekeep has 7 or 8 encounters. Wrath dungeons are at least thrice that.

 

[Shadenuat]

Just the opening tombs in candlekeep has 5 mob packs, followed by skelingtons doppel rooms doppel elminster more doppels spiders and party fight. Wotr act 2 inner castle is fairly similar. But of course wotr is just more difficult, its not like encounter = 1 ghast.

 

[Delterius]

Yeah it's no comparison. Okay if you play your cards right then you'll start cutting through your enemies like butter at some point in act 3 or 4. But an 'encounter' in a BG dungeon is, sometimes, a succubus, and most often 3 gibberlings and a kobold. Firewine wouldn't even qualify as a dungeon if the pathfinding wasn't horrible and constantly put dynaheir on a kobold commando's line of sight.

 

[ga♥]

I wonder how long Baldurs Gate series is front to back. Probably similar to Wrath.

The length is hardly the games biggest issue though.

I wonder how long Baldurs Gate series is front to back. Probably similar to Wrath.

The length is hardly the games biggest issue though.

I'd wager BG+ToSC is 100 hours for a completionist. BG2 +ToB is probably 200-250 for a completionist. The major difference is that BG is comparatively freeform. There is rarely anything in your way, like crusade management or even being constrained to the overworld path. Both WotR and KM feel like they are constantly slowing the player down. Even dialogues.

bg2+tob completionist run is more likely around 60-70 hours, probably less...

Wrong. The median (145 average) is 150h without tob, which adds another 27h.

https://howlongtobeat.com/game/810

It seems to me you guys never played the games, and just use that website. Do you seriously remember taking 250 hours to play BG2.

 

[Roguey]

It seems to me you guys never played the games, and just use that website. Do you seriously remember taking 250 hours to play BG2.

BG2 has a reputation for being a long RPG with a ton of content. 100-150 for SoA and 20-30 for ToB seems about right. Over 200 would be going really slow.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I think part of the disconnect is that Pathfinder (D&D 3.75) is far more complex and fiddly. BG combat is going to be positioning, a few attack commands, an occasional spell, and an infrequent item. BG2 requires far more spells and responsiveness, but still pales in comparison to WotR unless it's a set-piece battle. Outside of the first trench area, you're rarely going to be auto-attacking through combat unless you've got a fully developed Haplo AoO build. Every character is very fiddly. Couple this with trash mobs that are often way tuned up, and people start using the word "slog".

 

[Kev Inkline]

I wonder how long Baldurs Gate series is front to back. Probably similar to Wrath.

The length is hardly the games biggest issue though.

I wonder how long Baldurs Gate series is front to back. Probably similar to Wrath.

The length is hardly the games biggest issue though.

I'd wager BG+ToSC is 100 hours for a completionist. BG2 +ToB is probably 200-250 for a completionist. The major difference is that BG is comparatively freeform. There is rarely anything in your way, like crusade management or even being constrained to the overworld path. Both WotR and KM feel like they are constantly slowing the player down. Even dialogues.

bg2+tob completionist run is more likely around 60-70 hours, probably less...

Wrong. The median (145 average) is 150h without tob, which adds another 27h.

https://howlongtobeat.com/game/810

It seems to me you guys never played the games, and just use that website. Do you seriously remember taking 250 hours to play BG2.

I hate games, but that’s not even close to 250h.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

That's a range. I estimated up to 250 hours for a completionist doing BG2 and the expansion. Also consider it from a first time player prospective. Still, the point is that it's a long game but it doesn't feel long compared to Owlcat. It's much more free form. Fewer cutscenes, in-engine or otherwise. The dialogues are not bloated. Lesser NPC maintenance. Fewer gates and timers. No abstracted strategy layers. Less plot urgency. More exploration through areas, rather than shuttling your party to and from small zones with specific tasks. The nature of the encounters and combat ruleset make for faster play, especially in BG1. That was the point.

 

[Delterius]

I didn't really feel like BG2 or WotR felt any longer than one another. I'd classify them as more or less on the same level. Only I was left wishing WotR's last chapters had more to them.

 

[Tavernking]

I rate this review 7.5/10.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Review seems a bit short n dry, its ok i guess.

 

[raeven]

Did this review just unironically refer to a rotatable camera as a...... downgrade? Did that actually happen?

 

[Roguey]

Did this review just unironically refer to a rotatable camera as a...... downgrade? Did that actually happen?

I've yet to see any bird's-eye-view game where camera rotation added anything other than busywork that gets in the way of fun. Static view is best, designed-for-one-particular-view-but-with-the-option-to-rotate like Wasteland 3 is also acceptable.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Static view is not "best", it's "better". Best is isometry.

 

[Immortal]

I also found WOTR way too long. Twin Elms Syndrome corrupts yet another game that could have been great.

Mehhh..

PoE can be finished in like 20 hours.. From the minute you step in Twin Elms you're basically an hour or two from finishing the game unless you fart around.

WOTR is like 5000 hours long and most of it is running your face through hordes of encounters, slamming through war and peace novella's of dialogue between 2 static npc's just standing there staring at each other boringly and back tracking through walmart-sigil over and over.


EDIT:

I also found WOTR way too long. Twin Elms Syndrome corrupts yet another game that could have been great.

Is Twin Elms syndrome one where you stop playing the game at a (certain) choke point (because of the story gets jarring etc etc)? Because I know I dropped PoE at TE.

nvm, I misunderstood the reference. I thought you were implying Twin Elms made the game "double in length" or something to an excessive point that it's unfinishable.
I would agree the quality / interest for me completely drops off there but not because of game duration. PoE is fucking short if you beeline it.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Static view is not "best", it's "better". Best is isometry.

But the real question is what is...

Spoiler

Bester?))

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Did this review just unironically refer to a rotatable camera as a...... downgrade? Did that actually happen?

I've yet to see any bird's-eye-view game where camera rotation added anything other than busywork that gets in the way of fun. Static view is best, designed-for-one-particular-view-but-with-the-option-to-rotate like Wasteland 3 is also acceptable.

For an actual bird's-eye view, camera rotation would be unnecessary, but for something resembling an isometric view, camera rotation is often invaluable during turn-based, tactical combat.

 

[HeyCheckOutHowHardICanPee]

camera rotation is often invaluable during turn-based, tactical combat.

Is it invaluable because it lets you approach things from a better angle of view to your liking or is it actually invaluable because nearly every game that features it has used it as a lazy "fix" of the developers and designers having zero care in the world about visibility and coherency?

Because I'm having a very hard time remembering an instance of wiggling my camera around and enjoying it outside of puzzles that revolved around the act or games where you can influence or interact with the enviroment to the point where the developers understood that the carnage the players would cause would require being able to swivel the damn thing around lest you indirectly blind your ability to see the battlefield.

 

[Shadenuat]

Did this review just unironically refer to a rotatable camera as a...... downgrade? Did that actually happen?

I've yet to see any bird's-eye-view game where camera rotation added anything other than busywork that gets in the way of fun. Static view is best, designed-for-one-particular-view-but-with-the-option-to-rotate like Wasteland 3 is also acceptable.

Silent storm mb, does it count?

 

[Skdursh]

I didn't read the review but I take the opposite stance of whatever it said unless someone challenges me on it and then I will gaslight them, okay?

 

[LabRat]

A lots of evil dialogue options are stupid, main character talks like an edgy 90s comic book character and yells to kill everyone.

 

[Maxie]

A lots of evil dialogue options are stupid, main character talks like an edgy 90s comic book character and yells to kill everyone.

yes, it's well-written evil