Review RPG Codex Review: Darth Roxor on Disappointment, thy name is Pillars of Eternity

[Lhynn]

Even though i liked end sequence of PoE, this bit just killed me:

Yep, that's how Iovara discovered the biggest secret in the world.
And what's more, a lot of people apparently believed her!

Actually makes sense in poe, every fucking character in the game is a lore dump, at least this dialogue acknowledges that.

 

[Cadmus]

I tried to continue with the game today and it's such a chore. The loading times are so fucked up for some reason now that I'm near the end that I hate the location transitions. I had an epiphany when I visited a shop and mindlessly clicked through 2 pages of identical armors and 2 pages of hats to sell, made 40k and used it to buy 2 supplies for 150 gold total - I'm wasting my life on pointless stupid shit.

 

[valcik]

"What can change the nature of a man?"

2 pages of identical armors and 2 pages of hats to sell

 

[Lhynn]

I had an epiphany, I'm wasting my life on pointless stupid shit.

PoE does that to you.

 

[set]

"What can change the nature of a man?"

2 pages of identical armors and 2 pages of hats to sell

PoE's flawed, but I had fun with it while it lasted. Maybe the xpac will be amazing?

Let's be clear here:

NWN2 vs PoE, PoE wins hands down. NWN2's main campaign was so abysmally bland and boring - nobody finished it (anyone who actually knows about Sand or whatever the fuck just watched a let's play or read a synopsis, nobody actually gave a shit about this game for its SP)
MOTB was amazing - so it stands to reason PoE's XPAC should be, too.

 

[Morality Games]

"What can change the nature of a man?"

2 pages of identical armors and 2 pages of hats to sell

PoE's flawed, but I had fun with it while it lasted. Maybe the xpac will be amazing?

Let's be clear here:

NWN2 vs PoE, PoE wins hands down. NWN2's main campaign was so abysmally bland and boring - nobody finished it (anyone who actually knows about Sand or whatever the fuck just watched a let's play or read a synopsis, nobody actually gave a shit about this game for its SP)
MOTB was amazing - so it stands to reason PoE's XPAC should be, too.

As someone who enjoyed Pillars of Eternity, I still think NWN2 OC was an overall better experience.

Influence-driven companion system with a lot of flags and branches, as in Kotor 2 and Planescape: Torment and characters whose key dialogue/character developments were gated and required investigation and scrutiny, which made it feel like you were discovering and creating a relationship instead of being told about one.

Narrative picked up speed Act 2 --> Act 3

Content supports and rewards role-playing every D&D alignment, as in Planescape and Kotor 2

Thematically unique among the Forgotten Realms/Planescape metaseries; addressed an issue I always found perplexing about Forgotten Realms/Planescape.

I imagine overall nostalgia helped (Neverwinter Nights was my first cRPG).

 

[Modron]

(Neverwinter Nights was my first cRPG)

Otherwise, I generally agree with everything you said.

 

[Delterius]

Are we talking about the Neverwinter Nights 2 Original Campaign?

The same NwN2 where everything is a per encounter super power because resting takes 5 seconds?

The same NwN2 whose greatest character was a short tempered dwarf who wanted to be a monk?

The same NwN2 that killed seventeen people with its obnoxious camera?

The same NwN2 where roleplaying is the fine line between benevolence and demanding money for your time?

A game set in Neverwinter... thematically unique in the Forgotten Realms?

 

[DeepOcean]

Outside the camera (and I have no doubt that if PoE was 3D, Obsidian would fuck that too.) I fail to see big differences between the two, Neverwinter is boring as fuck as Defiance Bay, PoE world is just Forgotten Realms with another bullshit excuse for magic so I don't think is all that different, roleplaying in PoE isn't good and evil bullshit but its no better because that whole Honest/Cruel/Benevolent is just contrived bullshit and just amount to the ole let's do evil, let's be neutral or let's do good but with more redundant options and while you can rest spam on NWN 2, PoE has per encounter spells and outside some places, you are hardly limited by the camping supplies. Outside Durance and Grieving Mother, the rest of the companions are NWN 2 grade shit and the combat encounters are awful in both games.

In terms of systems, that isn't even fair for PoE. There are only three things PoE has over NWN2: Durance, Grieving Mother and graphix.

 

[Athelas]

I suppose that after 'worse than Dungeon Siege 3', 'worse than the Neverwinter Nights 2 OC' was inevitable.

How about the people making these claims actually go (re)play those games?

 

[Delterius]

Neverwinter is boring as fuck as Defiance Bay

While the pseudo americans happily engaging one another in an orgy of FREEDOM wouldn't be my choice of a 'Colonial' setting, the faction play that Defiance Bay has already is miles above and beyond both Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter.

PoE world is just Forgotten Realms with another bullshit excuse for magic so I don't think is all that different

Might be true but I think this is still up in the air. There's still a lot of room to elaborate on this metamagic.

roleplaying in PoE isn't good and evil bullshit but its no better because that whole Honest/Cruel/Benevolent is just contrived bullshit

Actual personality traits used in every day conversation X Lawful/Good/Chaotic/Evil Axis. Which is more artificial and why? Discuss!

you can rest spam on NWN 2, PoE has per encounter spells

About as useful in PotD as a Fighter's auto attacks in BG2. Part of the deal but not definitive at all.

and outside some places, you are hardly limited by the camping supplies

I can agree with this. Though strategic management of resources in Pillars is only marginally improved over the IE games, it still isn't definitive to the experience.

Outside Durance and Grieving Mother, the rest of the companions are NWN 2 grade shit

ITS PRONOUNCED NEEESHKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. ITS NEESHKAH YA HEAR. >:

Take one those two companions, realize how mind numbingly cut they were and then see how they alone make for more interesting storytelling than the entirety of the NwN2 OC.

In terms of systems, that isn't even fair for PoE.

Oh, Dungeons and Dragons is so well implemented in NwN2. I personally enjoyed character creation/planning and hated everything else, such as actually using the fucking characters.

Seriously. I'm someone who looks at about half of the innovations Pillars of Eternity brought to the table and would roll them back to the IE era in a split second. But fuck people who want to fanboy the NwN2 OC over this. The fact that Pillars is only merely mediocre and not dysfunctional alone puts it above that godless campaign.

 

[DeepOcean]

How about the people making these claims actually go (re)play those games?

I did, played NWN 2 and I think the personal Fortress concept is way better done on that game.

 

[Lhynn]

At the very least i managed to finish NWN2, pacing of poe makes that impossible to finish it unless you are used to eating shit.

 

[Delterius]

At the very least i managed to finish NWN2, pacing of poe makes that impossible to finish it unless you are used to eating shit.

Maybe you just like your shit sprinkled with unfulfilled hopes and dreams? That's very much in tow with codexian tradition.

 

[Lhynn]

At the very least i managed to finish NWN2, pacing of poe makes that impossible to finish it unless you are used to eating shit.

Maybe you just like your shit sprinkled with unfulfilled hopes and dreams? That's very much in tow with codexian tradition.

Nope, unfulfilled hopes and dreams is p. much the base ingredient of poe and i didnt like it.

 

[Delterius]

At the very least i managed to finish NWN2, pacing of poe makes that impossible to finish it unless you are used to eating shit.

Maybe you just like your shit sprinkled with unfulfilled hopes and dreams? That's very much in tow with codexian tradition.

Nope, unfulfilled hopes and dreams is p. much the base ingredient of poe and i didnt like it.

In this vein I would raise a Fallout or a BG2 against it. Hell, maybe even the MotB expansion. Those are the opposite of 'shit', not NwN2's OC. As you do so, I find you are just a rabid hater.

 

[DarkArcher]

There's a core fun game, but there's a lot of stuff that is broken. So the game alternates between being too easy, too hard, or too meh (where the world lore is concerned).

I made it through most of the game without really considering crafting or using food on Hard.

 

[Lhynn]

In this vein I would raise a Fallout or a BG2 against it. Hell, maybe even the MotB expansion. Those are the opposite of 'shit', not NwN2's OC. As you do so, I find you are just a rabid hater.

Haters gun hate! and as you are well aware, i hate everything by obsidian for no reason at all.
That must be it, the game cannot be bad, it was made by obsidian after all! people dislike it for no good reason, obsidian is, after all, the last great hope of cRPGs!
It looks pretty too! and the pitch was super good! that at least makes it an excellent game before evaluating everything else.

Delt, you and i both know it dont work like that, at least not for me. I love the guys at obsidian, and i really like some of the elements and ideas in poe, i really want to like the final product, but it is neither fun nor engaging, just a tired and boring game.

 

[Delterius]

That must be it, the game cannot be bad, it was made by obsidian after all! people dislike it for no good reason, obsidian is, after all, the last great hope of cRPGs!

Oh my, was that what I said?

You are a retard.

Oh no. That's what I actually said.

Then again, the problem may be why I said it. You may be right, maybe I am a fanboy of Pillars of Eternity.

Seriously. I'm someone who looks at about half of the innovations Pillars of Eternity brought to the table and would roll them back to the IE era in a split second.

Oh wait no, that's not it.

Pillars of Eternity did not live up to the expectations. This is true for most aspects of the game, from story to combat design, the consensus is that the final product is competent but bland. There's something well done for most tastes but few things stand out. If anything, Pillars seem only redeemed for the niche its carved for itself: nothing else scratches the RTwP, party based RPG nostalgia that some folks long for, nor are there many games with these sorts of visuals in the market. This is the same conclusion I reached with Dragon Age: Inquisition and you know my opinion on that game.

The reasons for why this is true are many and I think the better posters have already gone very far down this road. I just don't think you are one of them precisely for retarded things like "At least NwN2 OC had better pacing!".

 

[Lhynn]

Alright, resorting to name calling now? Disappointing.

First, PoE doesnt scratch that "RTwP" itch, its fairly incompetent at it actually. Anyone that happens to enjoy good RTwP can tell you the same thing
Second, DA:I actually pleased their target audience, what happened here is that obsidian asked us for money so that sawyer could make a game for goons.
Third, yes poe has horrible pacing, it feels aimless, there is simply no force driving you forward, no reason to explore, both storywise and gameplay wise. It feels pointless and boring, trash fights are much more abundant than they were in NWN2 and they break the pace constantly, and they do so because they dont work as a means to progress neither in story terms nor in gameplay terms.

The best thing i can say about poe is that its a good time waster that you can drop for months at the time. And i would even go as far as to say that this is its actual niche. As for you being a fanboy of PoE, good for you, dont let me stop you from having fun with it.

 

[Delterius]

As for you being a fanboy of PoE, good for you, dont let me stop you from having fun with it.

Did you even read the post? Or are you seriously ignoring facts to sustain your world view?

 

[Lhynn]

You defending PoE without giving me a counter argument does make you come across as a fanboy. But i know you stand more on a middle ground.
I do believe calling me a hater is a bit much, after all since release ive said this game is better than average. Tbh, ive played much worse than this game, but there are shitty smartphone apps more fun and engaging than PoE.

 

[LusciousPear]

Wow, I was expecting some hivemind butthurt, but this is beautiful <3

I think it's a fantastic game.

 

[Sensuki]

First, PoE doesnt scratch that "RTwP" itch, its fairly incompetent at it actually.

To be fair I thought he meant in general for most people, rather than for you or I. Which is true - even though it is shit, it's one of the only recent RTwP games there is.

 

[Morality Games]

Are we talking about the Neverwinter Nights 2 Original Campaign?

The same NwN2 where everything is a per encounter super power because resting takes 5 seconds?

The same NwN2 whose greatest character was a short tempered dwarf who wanted to be a monk?

The same NwN2 that killed seventeen people with its obnoxious camera?

The same NwN2 where roleplaying is the fine line between benevolence and demanding money for your time?

A game set in Neverwinter... thematically unique in the Forgotten Realms?

A short tempered dwarf that has an elaborate dialogue tree and lot of ties to the environment, the proper flagging of which can result in him changing alignment and becoming a monk if the player wants, is better than a character who has 2-4 two dialogues of character development split on either sides of a companion quest.

Admittedly, the overall "idea" behind Eora and the characters that inhabit it are better than the Realms, but the implementation faltered in places and particularly when it came to PoE's companions.

As far as being thematically unique goes, the narrative raised the issue of why characters should care about anything that happens in the Realms when it's entire existence is a blip in eternity. Specifically:

The PC's arc is about becoming a prominent figure in the Realms' most cosmopolitan city. Similar to DAII, but the way they did in it the Neverwinter Nights 2 OC was truer to the spirit of role playing and cRPGs -- more scenario driven and not nearly as cinematic. Pretty much everything from the scenarios they crafted, the NPCs the PC interacted with, and the companions was designed to provide the player with a full, wide ranging taste of what "society" in the Realms is like.

Heck, starting in Act II you even build your own tiny microcosm of Realms society from the ground up in the form of Crossroad Keep.

The primary antagonists (Ammon Jerro and the King of the Shadows) are immortal beings who have subjected themselves to eternal torment in order to save countries they love but which ultimately will be destroyed by time.