Editorial RPG Codex Report: Gamescom 2015 - SpellForce 3, ELEX, D:OS EE, The Guild 3, Daedalic and more

[Infinitron]

Vault Dweller, are you being phased out?

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Unsurprisingly, this was one of the most boring presentations of Gamescom. Our presenter was a sleepy dude named Michael Rüve [managing director of Piranha Bytes], who seemed unable to muster any enthusiasm for the game whatsoever; and really, who can blame him? First, he rattled down the basic information about the game: (...) The game was set on a planet “like Earth, but not the Earth”

This had me laugh out loud.

Bubbles: Why do you choose the name ELEX for your game?

1) Symmetry: “'ELEX' works very nice symmetrically; it has 2 'E's and an 'X' at the end.”

Uh.. okay? (wat)

2) Availability: “When you make a new game, you want to choose a title that you can really own. It's getting harder and harder today to find a unique name that's still available on sites like twitter and facebook. 'ELEX' was still available.”

Holy shit wat, is this real, are these guys for real? Is this real life?

Thats some truly inspirational stuff right there.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Vault Dweller, are you being phased out?

That's the word on the street.

 

[Grotesque]

That's the word on the street.

 

[A user named cat]

LoL @ Syberia 3. To be a good game it needs to be nothing like Syberia 1&2 (which were the most boring adventure games I had the displeasure of playing/watching on YT), but then it will get slaughtered by exisiting fans of the series. So it is a lose-lose situation.

Get out of here STALKER. Syberia 1 jizzed atmosphere from its pores, never found it boring especially once you're travelling aboard the train. Artwork was downright stunning even at its low res and 4:3 ratio. Syberia 2 on the other hand was admittedly a pretty dull and unnecessary sequel with a lot of uninteresting exploration.

 

[pippin]

A while ago, I heard on Codex that Daedalic's owner/parent, a book publisher, decides that they are not earning enough for their 2D adventure games. That's the portent of the decline.

I hope if Silent hits with mainstream, as a Christmas miracle Daedalic will keep producing one side 2D project each year e.g. Anna's Quest, The Devil's Men.

If Silent fails, pretty sure Daedalic is going to tank.

Poki (one of Daedalic's lead devs) once said they felt proud of championing 2d style adventures made mostly in photoshop. He was talking about Deponia, though, but I do believe (or at least I hope to believe) this Silence thing is just a little experiment... They are constantly releasing new games, however, although not all those are made by them and Daedalic only acts as a publisher.
My only complain about their games is how easy they are sometimes... But I do hope they don't die. I do like Daedalic!

 

[Zeriel]

Never really enjoyed Amplitude's 4X that much, their art direction is fine but damn the gameplay gets quickly boring.
I do love their roguelike with a passion though, actually challenging with little bullshit on the way. Would rather see a dote2 than a el2 in the future

Weird, I'm the exact opposite. I think their gameplay keeps getting better, but the in-game art (i.e the 3D models) is so fucking bad.

 

[Bubbles]

Holy shit wat, is this real, are these guys for real? Is this real life?

Thats some truly inspirational stuff right there.

I suspect that a lot of the PB people are just burned out and tired; they've been making the same type of game for over 18 years now, which can't be all that fun anymore. During our presentation, Michael mentioned that they'd been using the same editing tools since 2006, which had made them really comfortable with the engine; at that point, I honestly couldn't tell if he was proud or bored. In retrospect, Risen 2 looks like the breaking point where the devs stopped giving a damn about making "good" games and just started working exclusively for the paycheck.

That's what I expect from ELEX as well: a long yawn in video game form. The only difference is that the game is now being marketed by Nordic Games, who seem to be quite good at their job.

 

[Sceptic]

The protagonist walked up to a huge dinosaur-like creature and started to swing his sword around. The dino squeaked like a rubber ducky, and a little red health bar popped up over its head. The hero kept swinging; the dino kept squeaking; the health bar kept going down. Then the dino collapsed and the hero sheathed his sword. Evidently, Piranha Bytes have elected to stick with their proven combat system from the Risen games.

Bubbles's peculiar style does not disappoint

That Daedalic section though... Roxor went to Gamescon last year and brought us back Devil's Men and Fire. Bubbles and JF go this year and bring us back Silence: The Motion Picture and news that Devil's Men release has been pushed back to "TBA".



Well at least Fire is out I guess.

 

[Ellef]

I could almost taste the soul crushing decline and hopelessness of most of the presenters. Love the report!

AER takes the half-baked cake in shoddy premises, I must say.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

I suspect that a lot of the PB people are just burned out and tired; they've been making the same type of game for over 18 years now, which can't be all that fun anymore.

It's not really the same people, from what I've seen (in the Credits) almost none of the people that worked on Gothic 1/2 worked on Risen 2/3 (some of them did on first Risen though) and I wouldn't say it's the same type of game anymore (aside from it being an exploration-based ARPG). People too often lump first Risen with its sequels but putting aside the perceived gap in quality, only Risen 1 is made in the Gothic mold, Risen 2/3 deviate from the formula in several key areas.

It's why so many old-school PB fans are so disappointed in the direction they took in Risen 2/3. Risen 1 was basically Gothic-lite in a tropical setting and was an excellent base to build upon, like they did with Gothic 2 NOTR. Instead, Risen 2 felt like a different game while Risen 3 unsuccessfully tried to blend old with the new.

That's what I expect from ELEX as well: a long yawn in video game form. The only difference is that the game is now being marketed by Nordic Games, who seem to be quite good at their job.

Probably (let's say most certainly) but I doubt few minutes of combat you've seen is enough to make a prediction either way. Gothic 1/2 combat on its own isn't that presentable (or particularly complex), it's the unique way in which they blend character and player skill (where the character actually gets better at handling the weapon instead of +10% damage standard ARPG fare) and enemy AI (one of the few games where enemies actually use their numbers to their advantage) that makes it such a good fit for those games.

 

[Bubbles]

It's not really the same people, from what I've seen (in the Credits) almost none of the people that worked on Gothic 1/2 worked on Risen 2/3 (some of them did on first Risen though)

Gothic 1 credits

Risen 3 credits

People on Risen 3 who worked on Gothic 1:

Michael Rüve (CEO for R3, Technical designer on G1)
Björn Pankratz (Project Management, Game Design & Story on R3, Additional Game Design, Administration, Music, Quality Assurance, Additional Sound Effects on G1)
Sasha Henrichs (Lead Environment Artist on R3, Modelling on G1)
Mario Röske (Technical Artist on R3, Modelling on G1)
Horst Dworczak (Asset Outsourcing Manager on R3, Additional Game Design, Level Design & 3D Modelling on G1)
Stefan Kalveram (Game Design on R3, Quality Assurance on G1)
Roman Keskenti (Programming on R3, Additional Programming on G1)
Kurt Pelzer (Programming on R3, Additional Programming on G1)
André Hotz (Animation on R3, Character Animation on G1)
Mattias Filler (Additional Story on R3, Quality Assurance on G1)

Most of the leads have been with the company from the very beginning. There were still 35 other people on the R3 dev team who joined up later - many in the G3/R1 days -, but the vast majority of them worked on "additional x" and aspects of the visual design (7 concept artists for one game?). I wouldn't argue that these people make major creative decisions in a game series like this, so I'd stand by the claim that there's a lot of retention from the G1 days.

I wouldn't say it's the same type of game anymore (aside from it being an exploration-based ARPG)... only Risen 1 is made in the Gothic mold, Risen 2/3 deviate from the formula in several key areas.

That's the point I was trying to make. "Exploration-based ARPG" is a pretty narrow genre for a company that's been around for 18 years (many other RPG studios switched between isometric and third person or between real time and turn based gameplay in that time), and the "deviations from the formula" are exactly the elements I would identify as mainstream laziness; the games have only evolved in a very limited fashion over the years. The closest point of comparison would probably be the Assassin's Creed series, and even those games have had greater differences between instalments, as I see it. Even Jeff Vogel made games as different as Nethergate, Geneforge, and Avadon in that time span.

If you want to argue really speciously, you can say that Vogel has limited creative retention as well: of the 6 people who are credited on Avadon, only two worked on Nethergate!

Probably (let's say most certainly) but I doubt few minutes of combat you've seen is enough to make a prediction either way. Gothic 1/2 combat on its own isn't that presentable (or particularly complex), it's the unique way in which they blend character and player skill (where the character actually gets better at handling the weapon instead of +10% damage standard ARPG fare) and enemy AI (one of the few games where enemies actually use their numbers to their advantage) that makes it such a good fit for those games.

There were about ten seconds of combat in the presentation, nothing but the dino. Michael focussed heavily on "immersion, immersion, immersion" throughout the whole thing; if you listened to him, ELEX's main innovations were better graphics, the jetbelt, a minimized GUI, and fewer stats. I wonder what the Codex would say if the next Elder Scrolls game were marketed with this "feature list".

 

[Infinitron]

I think you have an exaggerated perception of the Codex's positivity about ELEX, Bubbles.

 

[Bubbles]

I think you have an exaggerated perception of the Codex's positivity about ELEX, Bubbles.

My perception is based on the ELEX thread

 

[Roguey]

ELEX's main innovations were better graphics, the jetbelt, a minimized GUI, and fewer stats. I wonder what the Codex would say if the next Elder Scrolls game were marketed with this "feature list".

I played Skyrim and refuse to touch Oblivion, so pretty positive in my case.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Gothic 1 credits

Risen 3 credits

People on Risen 3 who worked on Gothic 1:

Sure, it seems to be more overlap than I remember but the key people behind Gothic 1/2 and founders of the company are no longer there and haven't been for some time. Focus should be on game design and additional game design.

That's the point I was trying to make. "Exploration-based ARPG" is a pretty narrow genre for a company that's been around for 18 years (many other RPG studios switched between isometric and third person or between real time and turn based gameplay in that time), and the "deviations from the formula" are exactly the elements I would identify as mainstream laziness; the games have only evolved in a very limited fashion over the years.

Adding lazy mainstream elements and catering to the console crowd is in the complete opposite in spirit of original Gothics (and even the first Risen to a slightly lesser degree). If a hypothetical sequel to Doom had features like 3 weapon limit, health regeneration, linear levels, 3 maximum enemies attacking you at once (and not at the same time) etc. would you consider it to be more of the same because it's a FPS in which you shoot demons and two games share some environmental artists & programmers?

Of course this is very subjective/individual but first Risen felt like a PB game to me through and through (just in a small dosage), sequels on the other hand felt like your run of the mill low-mid budget ARPGs with some traces of brilliance and Euro(trash) charm here and there.

The closest point of comparison would probably be the Assassin's Creed series, and even those games have had greater differences between instalments, as I see it. Even Jeff Vogel made games as different as Nethergate, Geneforge, and Avadon in that time span.

If you want to argue really speciously, you can say that Vogel has limited creative retention as well: of the 6 people who are credited on Avadon, only two worked on Nethergate!

I only played first Assassin's Creed for 4-5 hours before I found myself almost dozing out in front of the screen which prompted me to uninstall it and never touch the series again. From what I've sporadically seen of it since then, it seems that sequels mostly differ in a historical setting for your parkour and sightseeing pleasure.

Jeff Vogel is the driving force behind his games and he's the one constant throughout of it all. It's not a comparable situation in my mind when I feel that most of the key PB people left a while ago.

There were about ten seconds of combat in the presentation, nothing but the dino. Michael focussed heavily on "immersion, immersion, immersion" throughout the whole thing; if you listened to him, ELEX's main innovations were better graphics, the jetbelt, a minimized GUI, and fewer stats.

Those are meaningless buzzwords that you automatically serve to all game journos these days. Fewer/more stats by itself doesn't mean anything, Risen 2/3 had more stats than Gothic 2, it's what you do with those stats that matters.

For example, in Gothic 1/2/Risen 1 armor was very rare and only available in sets, it was tied to your advancement in your chosen faction and it was a big deal because it was your only means of protection (in addition to some jewelry and shit). Risen 3 on the other hand had a toughness stat which could potentially give your naked ass protection of a walking tank which effectively makes armor/clothes a cosmetic choice so you can larp being a pirate without getting pounded into a mush.

I wonder what the Codex would say if the next Elder Scrolls game were marketed with this "feature list".

Eh, Codexers would say it's going to be shit and then sink 1000 hours in it like with every other Bethesduh game. Was that a rhetorical question? Alternatively if it has Obsidian logo slapped on it and boasts additional features like writing, they're gonna claim it's the best RPG ever and sink 1000 hours into it.

Regardless, for once, Infinitron's right. You're mistaking a glimmer of hope for the latest PB installment to all-around optimism and high expectations. I fully expect to be disappointed by ELEX, I'll just still give it a fair shake because it's a PB game.

If your point is that I would treat a Development studio/Publisher that raped Fallout differently than the Dev studio that once upon a time brought us Gothic 2 NOTR (which I consider to be one of the best games ever and on a different plane to anything Bethesda ever made) in this or some other situation? Guilty as charged in that case.

 

[MrMarbles]

Please give Bubbles more content work for the codex.

Agreed. He's a class act.

 

[Bubbles]

Sure, it seems to be more overlap than I remember but the key people behind Gothic 1/2 and founders of the company are no longer there and haven't been for some time. Focus should be on game design and additional game design.

In that case the decline started with Gothic 2, where three of the four original game designers were no longer involved (or only credited as PR). Unless you want to say that this was all about Michael Hoge, who only left after Risen 2.

 

[TripJack]

stop posting and go finish the next part

 

[Bubbles]

The first draft is finished, but it requires a lot of fine tuning. Front page articles need to be fair and balanced.

 

[Turjan]

I just wanted to say that I immensely enjoyed reading this. Excellent work.

 

[Metro]

Elex = $5 or bust. I (over)paid $7.50 for Risen 3. Couldn't even finish it.

 

[Absinthe]

I got as far as asking him what the biggest improvement in the EE was (“The AI”) before he cleverly purchased his escape by inviting us come to Ghent in two weeks.

Bubbles, what happened to that?

 

[Infinitron]

I got as far as asking him what the biggest improvement in the EE was (“The AI”) before he cleverly purchased his escape by inviting us come to Ghent in two weeks.

Bubbles, what happened to that?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10045

 

[Absinthe]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10045

Thanks. From the way that was written, I thought a visit was still due for later. It probably would have helped to link that inside the article.