Editorial RPG Codex Report: Divinity: Original Sin 2, or, A Visit to Larian Studios

[Kem0sabe]

But there are also elements that have been there from the beginning (like envisioning DOS 1 as a couch game played with controllers) that weren't quite so obvious in the release version of the first game, but are quickly coming to the fore now.

That might seem like a major change in direction to PC players, even through it technically isn't.

Of course it's a major change in direction, like the controller support, the focus on multi-player, the console release of the first game and the inevitibility of this one being release on consoles as well.

 

[Bubbles]

Well, Kieron pointed out in the interview that couch play support with controllers was already envisioned for DOS 1 long before release; you can see the console release as a natural consequence of that. Co-op was a prominent part of the DOS 1 campaign and already had a noticeable impact on the gameplay of the first game, with the RPS minigame as the most obvious example. That's why it's difficult to gauge the level of continuity between the games; the devs may see many of the new features as a natural development of the guiding ideals of part 1, but a big part of their audience (especially the hardcore PC audience) may have tried to ignore those elements in favour of their preferred gameplay style.

 

[LESS T_T]

Well, Kieron pointed out in the interview that couch play support with controllers was already envisioned for DOS 1 long before release;

He likely referenced this, at 32s:



(Swen mention specifically couch co-op as an originally envisioned feature at 1:20.)

 

[Kem0sabe]

I don't even know anyone who still plays console or pc local co-op games beyond sports games, and much less rpgs.

It's an unnecessary feature and if we had statistics of how many pc players used the feature, the numbers would probably show a negligible number of players.

They are spending money on shit we didn't ask for while day and night cycles are still not in.

 

[Bubbles]

I don't even know anyone who still plays console or pc local co-op games beyond sports games, and much less rpgs.

You don't know many gaming couples then. Seeing couples play DOS together was something that Swen was especially happy about, and two couples having a "date night" was one of his examples for DOS 2's four player co-op.

 

[Tigranes]

Hey Bubbles, these guys talk about all the cool stuff they intend to add, but let's be honest here: we don't really want CHANGE. Original Sin was great, and we kinda want more of the same. What's your impression on Larian's team? Do you feel that they understand what made D:OS great and are willing to scrap ideas that would CHANGE the game too much, therefore only ADDING a few cool stuff here and there OR do you feel like they're like "oh, OS was great, but we have this new awesome idea that is going to be totally BETTER..."? If you were to give it a 0-10, with 10 being "they will make an OS clone" and 0 being "it's a totally new game, no fucking idea what will come out", where would you stand?

Side note: is it just me, or Swen Vinckle has, like, maxed out his Charisma stat? Charisma 18 on D&D, 10 on Fallout and so on...?

Speak for yourself, I want them to improve. It's just that "improve" can often be a codename for "shit", but D:OS was cool enough that I'll give them the chance to do whatever.

 

[Kem0sabe]

You don't know many gaming couples then. Seeing couples play DOS together was something that Swen was especially happy about, and two couples having a "date night" was one of his examples for DOS 2's four player co-op.

What kind of alternate dimensions does Swen visits? Where there are Co op rpg Daye nights...

If I invite a couple for games date night, the kind of games we will be playing won't involve controllers...

In case you are affect by a serious case of Belgium humor... I mean fucking and cucking.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

I hate the generic Grim of Thrones : Witcher Hunt type of fantasy but I would expect Larian to at least I dont know try something other than god damn Rivellon. At least jump on the Dark Souls no hope Berserk bandwagon.

Still this will be an interesting game, I really just hope it looks more like that cool concept art and less WoW.

 

[Eyestabber]

Well, most of the people I met at Larian hadn't worked on DOS 1 and none of them were dedicated gameplay designers, so that complicates things a little. Swen himself is trying to walk a tightrope between continuing everything that was great about the first game while at the same time revolutionizing the genre both in single- and multiplayer. Don't know how to rate that on a 0 to 10 scale.

The two senior writers both seemed to be tendentially more interested in providing continuity and improving on the foundation of the previous games than in making any sweeping changes; you might see that reflected in Sarah's answers in the interview.

But there are also elements that have been there from the beginning (like envisioning DOS 1 as a couch game played with controllers) that weren't quite so obvious in the release version of the first game, but are quickly coming to the fore now. That might seem like a major change in direction to PC players, even through it technically isn't.

So...let me get this straight: the writing, aka: the mediocre part, will have continuity (aka, will keep being cringeworthy), while the gameplay, aka what-actually-made-OS-gud is being handled by newcomers. And, on top of that, we have a new "feature" nobody asked for: couch gaming with a controller (but it's not really new folks, they ALWAYS wanted to do that!!!). WOW, I can't wait to see how a game that used to have a pretty precise movement system will get butchered for the sake of consoletards streamlined for greater comfort.

You don't know many gaming couples then. Seeing couples play DOS together was something that Swen was especially happy about, and two couples having a "date night" was one of his examples for DOS 2's four player co-op.

Bullshit. The only "gaming couples" are gay dudes. Women won't get into REAL gaming just because Larian decided to follow Obsidian's example (funding their game with Grognard money then developing it for the casual/mainstream market).

UNLESS Swen is planning a game SO multiplatform, it will be released for PC, X1, PS4, X360, PS3 and the kitchen stove.

Man, that would be pretty :incloosive:!

Spoiler

There you go, folks: D:OS 2's target audience

 

[Aenra]

If i actually had people to play it with, i might have had a very different opinion. Either way, a "proper" RPG but for mini-teams rather than just a single person is not such a horrid idea. Nor heresy. We called it PnP once* ^^
* and the one thing that's missing, varying rulesets, i would not put it past them to be a thing in D:OS 3

As to the whether they can pull this off without ultimately adhering to basic MMO principles (necessary by default because people in plural)? To be seen. Which entails "not to be criticised as we have nothing concrete"

What i do worry about, because success or failure of the above means fuck all to me, is whether it will affect me. Yes, i'm a selfish cunt. If that happens, ok, problem. They said it won't and i'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt since out of the three 'big' ones, they are the only studio to have thus far exceeded my original expectations. Missing day n night stretch goal included.

 

[Caconym]

So...let me get this straight: the writing, aka: the mediocre part, will have continuity (aka, will keep being cringeworthy), while the gameplay, aka what-actually-made-OS-gud is being handled by newcomers.

Based on...?

 

[Septaryeth]

You don't know many gaming couples then. Seeing couples play DOS together was something that Swen was especially happy about, and two couples having a "date night" was one of his examples for DOS 2's four player co-op.

Not necessarily couples, good friends and maybe your tabletop group (if they have decent computers) are all feasible.
I think the problem is how you can have both people participating independently, while playing a significant role and rewarded the team.
For example, Swen killed the dwarf in the pitch video. What does that mean for the player? He got kicked out of the game?
Or what if we do work together, but then me and any other completionism/ocd player want to enjoy all the contents this map offer?
It'll ended up every characters acting together as a group anyway, no different from you watch your boyfriend or girlfriend playing the game.

I never tried coop in D:OS before, I just managed to get my brother to back D:OS 2, but I'm still wondering how it'll play out.

 

[flabbyjack]

Don't cry, guys.

 

[Bubbles]

Based on...?

Nothing, he just misread my post. Of course there is some danger of dilution anyway, since they're developing the game in four offices simultaneously, and the head office is still mostly working on the Enhanced Edition. Didn't notice any problems of this type in the prototype though.

For example, Swen killed the dwarf in the pitch video. What does that mean for the player? He got kicked out of the game?

His character spawned back at the local spawn point. One of the other writers told me that they're not putting in any major penalties for death, since you're expected to kill each other quite often with competitive questing.

 

[Zeriel]

The death = respawn thing really bothers me especially with the game encouraging you to kill each other as a trivial thing, probably the only thing out of everything they've announced I viscerally dislike. I guess "believable gameworld" hasn't really been their thing for a while, though, at least the combat will be good.

 

[Infinitron]

Is losing all of your equipment and inventory a major penalty?

 

[Bubbles]

Is losing all of your equipment and inventory a major penalty?

It is, and I doubt they'd do anything like that for PvP deaths; it would totally screw over the loser.

 

[Zed]

*trailer voice*

2020.
four years after the release of the biggest and best rpg ever created by larian studios. *swoosh-by of best of show awards from rpg watch*
comes another chapter set in the grounded and serious fantasy world of rivelon. *laughter and sounds of cartoon honks*
this time, with enhanced couch co-op and arena-fps respawn features. *shot of diversity crowd in couch laughing and pointing at tv*
and an unforgettable new love interest. *zoom in on dwarf*

*explosion* divinity: original sin 2: enhanced edition.

*inception horn sound* exclusively on nintendo wii.

 

[Cadmus]

Who are all these people who can play 4 person coop anyway? I tend to play RPGs I enjoy in marathon sessions. At a weekend I could conceivably play a newly released RPG all day if I liked it enough.

There are some people I regularly play Payday 2 with, but it doesn't normally go past 3 hours and they aren't into RPGs or story based dialogue games. It would be abominable to play a game like this with them.

So who are all these people? Why do they prefer giving other people dialogue choices instead of making them on their own? Why is it fun to have your companion run around town when you just want to go out and do some quests?

I also don't understand this. I finished the game first and then played with my friend through it. It's unbearably boring having to read the quests and dialogues separately while also sitting in the same room, totally quiet to concentrate on the reading so we just did everything from my memory, all the quests. I can't imagine I'd actually want to enjoy the narrative and the quest competition with 4 fucking people, all reading different walls of texts at the same time and always having to wait for somebody to do something, finish fucking around etc.

Anybody actually had played the first game like this? Read everything, tried everything, explored and had fun for 70 hours in two player coop? How the fuck would you manage that?

What kind of alternate dimensions does Swen visits? Where there are Co op rpg Daye nights...

If I invite a couple for games date night, the kind of games we will be playing won't involve controllers...

In case you are affect by a serious case of Belgium humor... I mean fucking and cucking.

Fuck off, you know how hard it is today to get a local coop game that doesn't suck shit? All of them are impossibly bad, like Dead Island and Borderlands, it's all unplayable shit. D:OS was the first local coop in years that was actually a good game first, coop second. Get some friends you fuckface and don't spoil my fun.

 

[ROARRR]

Anybody actually had played the first game like this? Read everything, tried everything, explored and had fun for 70 hours in two player coop? How the fuck would you manage that?

Nope! I played it "solo", but still waiting for a super smart A.I. to make me smile!

 

[Sceptic]

If I invite a couple for games date night, the kind of games we will be playing won't involve controllers...

TBH the only games we play as groups of friends/couples nights/whatever are Mario Kart, Mario Party, that kind of silly stuff. CRPGs on a PC are the last thing that's gonna be playable with these kinds of groups and setups.

I mean I would never be the one who owns the console, but I'm glad my friends do for these kinds of occasions.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I also don't understand this. I finished the game first and then played with my friend through it. It's unbearably boring having to read the quests and dialogues separately while also sitting in the same room, totally quiet to concentrate on the reading so we just did everything from my memory, all the quests. I can't imagine I'd actually want to enjoy the narrative and the quest competition with 4 fucking people, all reading different walls of texts at the same time and always having to wait for somebody to do something, finish fucking around etc.

Anybody actually had played the first game like this? Read everything, tried everything, explored and had fun for 70 hours in two player coop? How the fuck would you manage that?



Fuck off, you know how hard it is today to get a local coop game that doesn't suck shit? All of them are impossibly bad, like Dead Island and Borderlands, it's all unplayable shit. D:OS was the first local coop in years that was actually a good game first, coop second. Get some friends you fuckface and don't spoil my fun.

It's not my fault you are a degenerate who doesn't own a Nintendo console to play with them imaginary friends.

As the poster above mentioned, there's a ton of local co-op games being released these days that are actually fun to play in a group instead of playing a complex rpg sitting in a couch and drinking a beer with your best buddy while his wife tribs with yours in the carpet.

 

[Sensuki]

The only RPGs that are good co-op are ARPGs, and even then - other shorter games are more fun for LANs and stuff.

 

[Cadmus]

TBH the only games we play as groups of friends/couples nights/whatever are Mario Kart, Mario Party, that kind of silly stuff. CRPGs on a PC are the last thing that's gonna be playable with these kinds of groups and setups.

I mean I would never be the one who owns the console, but I'm glad my friends do for these kinds of occasions.

It's not my fault you are a degenerate who doesn't own a Nintendo console to play with them imaginary friends.

As the poster above mentioned, there's a ton of local co-op games being released these days that are actually fun to play in a group instead of playing a complex rpg sitting in a couch and drinking a beer with your best buddy while his wife tribs with yours in the carpet.

The only RPGs that are good co-op are ARPGs, and even then - other shorter games are more fun for LANs and stuff.

Yeah, it's not a party or group game, but if you have frequent game sessions with a friend who likes RPGs then it's a gift of gods to be able to play something like this.

 

[Sensuki]

I suppose so, one of my friends enjoys that sort of thing. Personally I can't stand playing RPGs like this multiplayer.