Community RPG Codex 2019 GOTY - VOTE NOW!

[felipepepe]

Do you really want to die on a hill defending that Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder - AKA "combat tango" games - do not rely heavily on player reflexes?

Player reflexes have some influence in every real time (and even RTwP) combat or non combat iteration, but for me there is a fundamental divide between games in which damage level/hit rate/block depends heavily on character/enemy stats constituting combat proficiency core and those games in which those stats are far less relevant or nonexistent, while player reflexes and coordination (by AI, movement fluidity and combat timing) and objects stats/skill combos/potion management are what mostly determine competency levels. I see character skills dependant gameplay as the very core of rpgs, the way in which player truly (and deeper than choice dialogue/action options) "play a role", because he is subordinate to character proficiencies.

You have no idea of what you are talking about. Diablo is much more stat-based than Dungeon Master, you are just butthurt about some games and trying to make up an excuse to why games you like are TRUE RPGS, while others aren't.

 

[luj1]

I see only several JRPGs in the poll, as opposed to the usual few dozen. What happened? There are also no Dark Souls mods on the list. Is everything OK?

 

[The_Mask]

I see only several JRPGs in the poll, as opposed to the usual few dozen. What happened? There are also no Dark Souls mods on the list. Is everything OK?

We all know that as a deep and big fan of JRPGs, this strikes to your heart. And as a Dark Souls fan, this affects your spirit even harder, but take heart, kind sir, all is well in the Land of the Rising Sun.

 

[Ismaul]

The genre police never fails to amaze.

Yeah I don't get it either. Haven't Codexers realized it's current year?

"What is an RPG?" is a question we have finally transcended. The question we should be asking instead is: does DE identify as an RPG? Because, as we all know, genre is a social construct.

The only remaining issue is this: would that make DE an actual RPG, or trans-genre?

 

[EnthalpyFlow]

ITT Gatekeeping 101

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I think next year we should title the thread "RPGCodex's 2020 Vote and What is An RPG Flame War". Because I swear we only get 2-3 pages into one of these polls before it devolves into a shitposting contest. Every.... fucking... year...

Anyway, I went balls deep into some older RPGs this year and so this is the first time in awhile that I didn't pay one new game. I regret nothing, however. Pathfinder: Kingmaker was my 2018 GOTY, so the only thing that really intrigued me in 2019 was its expansion.

I did support the Queen's Wish kickstarter since I've been a Vogel fan after the Exile trilogy, but I just haven't gotten to it yet. I somehow missed Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark. It looks interesting and I may give it a go. All in all, though, there just hasn't been any 2019 RPGs that I've been excited about. And so this is the first poll that I can remember in which I did not vote.

 

[Viata]

Queen's Wish

I wanted to like this game, but everything I read about it makes me stay away from it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

ITT Gatekeeping 101

Gatekeeping exists for a reason.
If it wasn't for "gatekeeping" then the best RPG would be skyrim every year.

 

[EnthalpyFlow]

Nothing wrong with Skyrim being goty if nothing better comes out. Not every game is made for you, lad.

 

[Valky]

Nothing wrong with Skyrim being goty if nothing better comes out. Not every game is made for you, lad.

If nothing better than Skyrim came out in the year, the agreement is that there is no game of the year. Nothing quality enough to deserve the title.

Call it what you're really treating it as, "Least shit game of the year".

 

[EnthalpyFlow]

Nothing wrong with Skyrim being goty if nothing better comes out. Not every game is made for you, lad.

If nothing better than Skyrim came out in the year, the agreement is that there is no game of the year. Nothing quality enough to deserve the title.

"Mom, there's this guy on the internet that likes what I hate mom!".

 

[Viata]

While I don't give a shit if there is a game better or not than Skyrim, it would be quite sad if Skyrim was Codex's GOTY.

 

[EnthalpyFlow]

While I don't give a shit if there is a game better or not than Skyrim, it would be quite sad if Skyrim was Codex's GOTY.

Feel free to change Skyrim for Witcher 3, for example, but at the end of the day, I don't really care about what's the codex goty. I just like to come here from time to time to discover some obscure cRPGs and read some retarded comments.

Cheers!

 

[Valky]

While I don't give a shit if there is a game better or not than Skyrim, it would be quite sad if Skyrim was Codex's GOTY.

Feel free to change Skyrim for Witcher 3, for example, but at the end of the day, I don't really care about what's the codex goty. I just like to come here from time to time to discover some obscure cRPGs and read some retarded comments.

Cheers!

Well, you've already contributed to the latter category.

 

[EnthalpyFlow]

While I don't give a shit if there is a game better or not than Skyrim, it would be quite sad if Skyrim was Codex's GOTY.

Feel free to change Skyrim for Witcher 3, for example, but at the end of the day, I don't really care about what's the codex goty. I just like to come here from time to time to discover some obscure cRPGs and read some retarded comments.

Cheers!

Well, you've already contributed to the latter category.

Then I've already done more in this thread than you.

 

[Valky]

While I don't give a shit if there is a game better or not than Skyrim, it would be quite sad if Skyrim was Codex's GOTY.

Feel free to change Skyrim for Witcher 3, for example, but at the end of the day, I don't really care about what's the codex goty. I just like to come here from time to time to discover some obscure cRPGs and read some retarded comments.

Cheers!

Well, you've already contributed to the latter category.

Then I've already done more in this thread than you.

No one was trying to compete with you in the special olympics, so I guess if it makes you happy you can consider yourself having done more than anyone else here.

 

[EnthalpyFlow]

While I don't give a shit if there is a game better or not than Skyrim, it would be quite sad if Skyrim was Codex's GOTY.

Feel free to change Skyrim for Witcher 3, for example, but at the end of the day, I don't really care about what's the codex goty. I just like to come here from time to time to discover some obscure cRPGs and read some retarded comments.

Cheers!

Well, you've already contributed to the latter category.

Then I've already done more in this thread than you.

No one was trying to compete with you in the special olympics, so I guess if it makes you happy you can consider yourself having done more than anyone else here.

Ok manlet

 

[Viata]

Why the fuck are you guys still quoting me?

 

[Prime Junta]

So now the RPG Codex bends the knees to normie shit?

It always has. And autists have always raged about it. Thus it is, has been, and always will be.

 

[North Gibraltarian Dog]

You have no idea of what you are talking about. Diablo is much more stat-based than Dungeon Master, you are just butthurt about some games and trying to make up an excuse to why games you like are TRUE RPGS, while others aren't.

No, it's not. Not remotely.

I know very well what I'm talking about, as I played those games and I know their systems. I'm no butthurted at all with Diablos or Dark Souls and I didn't say in this discussion that those games "aren't true rpgs" (but pure action combat simulators and the simplest diablo clones aren't though). It's Disco Elysium the one about I have doubts . In fact I even explicitly said that Some arpgs share more features with Wizardry V, Pools of Darkness or Star Trail (or Fallout) than Disco Elysium.

What I made in a post-scriptum and off topic note, was only mark the difference that for me exist between games with real time combat but mostly character stats-based and on other hand other real time action rpgs in wich character stats are less relevant in regard combat or other contexts proficiency (and usally less complex) than player reflexes and coordination, item-stats, magic abilities/pseudo-perks or combos. Even in the case that we trust the opinion (usually unsubstantiated) of those that think rpg core is combat timing (instead of character skills/progression), so all RT rpgs would be less pure than TB, the fundamental difference between diablo-likes & combat simulators vs skill-heavy RT games still remain, which makes absurd to categorize all together.

Dungeon Master is a worse example than Daggerfall or Morrowind, however I think the difference in stats-relevance and complexity is still clear with Dungeon Master, so let's compare:

-Diablo has:

• 4 attributes
• 3 classes (linked with starting attributes, gain per level, passive conditions and 1 not very useful specific spell/special ability)
  
• 5 conditions (health & mana + 3 resistances)
  
• Chance to hit, armor proficiency, damage levels and 5 conditions influenced by attributes and level progression.
  
• 3 spells influenced by class. The rest shared (but limited by mana).

However the relevance of attributes leveling is secondary. Firstly because the gear bonuses are as powerful as several attributes levels, but also because player imput clicking quickly to drink potions and attack different enemies (or briefly retire to perform some action) is the absolute protagonist over character progression and even special abilities use. When you played Diablo (or even more with most clones), Were you worried about chance to hit, damage and attributes levels and management or more about items adquisition, potion/attack/spells click timing?


-Dungeon Master has:

• 6 attributes (2 resistances)
  
• 4 skills
  
• 24 characters/starting builds (less restrictive classes influencing starting attributes, skills and passive conditions)
  
• 6 passive & survival conditions
• Body parts injuries and different stats influence each part.
  
• Chance to hit, damage levels, armor rate and 4 conditions, influenced by atributes and skill levels.
• Health influenced by and hunger/thirst (and I think some attributes also).
  
• Attributes influenced by skill levels.
• Spells influenced by some skill levels, wisdom attribute and mana.
  
• Party members positioning relevance (and the link with stats and conditions)

Dungeon Master skill system is not only much more convoluted than Diablo's but the influence of character stats are higher in combat and even non combat survival. You need to check and manage your stats far more than in the Diablo example, the skill leveling affect far more characters effectiveness, etc.

Conclussion: Dungeon Master is much more character stats based than Diablo.

 

[FeelTheRads]

In the last 3 years i have been here,i haven't seen you post a decent post and contribute to any discussion,all you do is trying to be edgy

Hilarious coming from you of all people, someone who derails entire threads with his retarded shit.

but don't get it that the times had moved on

It's CURRENT YEAR, bro! Enjoy DE and learn all 300 gender pronouns! Times have moved on!
Stupidity beyond measure.

Oh yeah, and how would you internet-psychoanalyze people who use awards given by the Dorito Pope as a proof of a game's quality?

So, nothing, Prime Junta?
Why do you hardly ever answer to anything confrontational or something that calls out your retarded bullshit and mostly answer to your faggot buddies? My "theory" is that it's because you're a cocksucking faggot. What would YOU say?

Oh wait:

The genre police never fails to amaze.

Sure, passive-aggressiveness.
If you have a problem with the genre police, why don't you have a problem with genre bandits too? What do you get out of desperately defending a game's place in a genre?

The RPG genre is what the industry consensus says it is. The Game Awards reflect that consensus.

Of course anyone can use their private definition as much as they like, but it is not reasonable to expect the world at large to conform to it.

Or, as lexicographers like to put it, usage is king.

Let's not forget this piece of amazing insight. The old "RPGs are what the the majority says they are" Sawyerism.
In other words, dumbfuck retards like Prime Junta and fantadomat are desperately defending DE as an RPG even though in the future it might stop being an RPG simply because the majority of the people start calling something else an RPG.

 

[Prime Junta]

If you have a problem with the genre police, why don't you have a problem with genre bandits too? What do you get out of desperately defending a game's place in a genre?

I'm not. Getting hung up on genres is silly. Genres are only useful for librarians who need to know which shelf to stick the book in. I'm not a librarian so I don't care.

I do think genre characteristics are useful however, and it can be enlightening to describe games in terms of them. So I really don't give a flying fuck if you, felipe, or the Library of Congress categorises a game as a RPG or not: however, I still think it can be interesting to discuss any RPG characteristics it may have.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I'm not.

Seems to me that you are. At least to the level that the "genre police" does. Otherwise you wouldn't be so butthurt when somebody says this pile of shit is not an RPG.

Oh no, you are above those people. Instead of saying "this is not an RPG", you say "but this is an RPG" and "why don't you believe the Dorito Pope?". Yeah, you totally don't care.
Can't wait until you get told "it's current year, bro, DE is not an RPG anymore".

I'm not a librarian so I don't care.

So you don't care what RPG is defined as, but you think genre characteristics are useful.

If RPG is anything the majority says it is, then RPG characteristics are also anything the majority says, therefore any "discussion" about them in not only uninteresting, it's completely pointless.
And then we should have a "game of the year" thread, not "RPG of the year". And even then DE wouldn't fit.

But very typical of commie retards to put stupid random masturbatory "discussion" over actual facts. It's how they can keep the lie alive that their shit ideology is worth anything since it can only be backed by philosophical masturbation, never by facts.

 

[Prime Junta]

So you don't care what RPG is defined as, but you think genre characteristics are useful.

Yes, that's what I just said.

If RPG is anything the majority says it is, then RPG characteristics are also anything the majority says, therefore any "discussion" about them in not only uninteresting, it's completely pointless.

That's a non sequitur. It is true that a RPG is anything the general consensus says it is, and RPG characteristics are also anything the general consensus says they are. However, it does not follow that any discussion about RPGs or RPG characteristics is necessarily uninteresting or pointless.

As a more general principle, I think arguing about definitions is pointless. It may sometimes be necessary to have a short discussion on definitions to avoid people talking past one another -- if both of us are using the term "RPG characteristics" for example but our definitions are widely divergent, nothing much is going to come of the discussion. Therefore, for the purposes of our discussion, we would need to agree what definition of "RPG characteristics" we're using in that context. Assuming that that provisional definition has any wider validity or in and of itself has any value would be a mistake, however.


Edit: ... moreover ...

You could make a case that RPG Codex should use a more restrictive definition for RPGs than the general consensus, a niche within a niche as it were.

However, I don't think that would be a strong case. I already presented some evidence for that -- the all-time Codex top 101, and the lists of high-ranking games in Codex GOTYs. These demonstrate a fairly broad view of the genre: the #1 game is Planescape: Torment which is clearly the weakest of the IE games in the "trad RPG" sense (most limited character build options, most limited equipment options, most limited party-building options, weakest combat), the top 10 includes Deus Ex which isn't usually classified as a RPG at all, Witcher 3 which is an aRPG-lite was GOTY, and so on and so forth.

These games -- and Disco Elysium too, for that matter -- also get a lot of attention here. Bataille's review thread was one of the longest in the News & Content section, and the game gets discussed here extremely actively, both by its fans and its detractors. So the Codex is clearly much broader than a Fallout fan site at this point. If you don't like it, you can always GTFO and start your own site you know.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG