Risen 3: Titan Lords

[SuicideBunny]

I think this is something that most people that ask for successors to old games seem to ignore. Even if the whole team got together again the game would probably be very different because they're different people now.

explain risen then.

 

[Edifice]

I think this is something that most people that ask for successors to old games seem to ignore. Even if the whole team got together again the game would probably be very different because they're different people now.

explain risen then.

It was an accident!

Spoiler

Good point.

 

[Jashiin]

Interview with Piranha Bytes lead level designer

Thank you for posting this. Painful as it is, it is now clear there is no reason to even glance at a PB press story or new game ever again.

 

[evdk]

The problem with game development today: The developers think what they want and how they feel is more important than what the consumer wants or feels. They think it's about them having a good time at their job instead of the player having a good time.

Well of course they do, for a lot of them that's how it worked when they started making games. It's just that now they bought too much into their own infallibility.

 

[toro]

Just hold on a bit more. I guess it won’t be too long until our publisher will deliver new and long awaited infos!

Despite the shortcomings of G3, R1 and R2; I'm actually looking forward to this new game cause their games do have a special flavor that makes them unique.

But I agree on the point that they lost their direction somewhere after G2.

Interview with Piranha Bytes lead level designer

Thank you for posting this. Painful as it is, it is now clear there is no reason to even glance at a PB press story or new game ever again.

Heh, let's not exaggerate.

 

[toro]

The problem with game development today: The developers think what they want and how they feel is more important than what the consumer wants or feels. They think it's about them having a good time at their job instead of the player having a good time.

Well of course they do, for a lot of them that's how it worked when they started making games. It's just that now they bought too much into their own infallibility.

Germans.

 

[Machocruz]

The problem with game development today: The developers think what they want and how they feel is more important than what the consumer wants or feels. They think it's about them having a good time at their job instead of the player having a good time.

Well of course they do, for a lot of them that's how it worked when they started making games. It's just that now they bought too much into their own infallibility.

I was thinking of other examples like Nintendo and how they hate making side scrolling Mario, but Miyamoto, who would rather make Galaxy type shit, was forced to anyway because it sells and makes the company money and the majority of consumers prefer it to 3D Mario. He wants to have fun,' creative' time at work and screw what the customer wants. And Nintendo has suffered for this attitude. They're trying to force the shit they like -like Wind Waker HD, even though no one gave a damn the first time- down people's throats, and blame it on the customer when it doesn't work.

So it doesn't matter if this guy thinks Gothic games were too long or too experimental and "loose". If people want Gothic length games from PB, then suck it up or deal with the consequences. It's called work for a reason. These developers need to go back to their garages and bedrooms if they only want to do what they want to do.

 

[Tigranes]

Maybe because I got into the series late and played G1-3 & R1 all around the same time, but I think G1&2 were special only in a particular manner, and apart from that, were actually pretty similar in direction and quality to PB's later games. I don't think there was such a major change in direction or dip in general quality. This means (1) hoping for a return to 'good old days' is rather forlorn, and (2) there's good reason to expect 'more of the same gravy' from PB.

I've talked about this a million times before, of course. R1 combat, or even G3 combat once fixed of stunlocks and the like, is not particularly dumbed down or fucked up from the G1-2 base; only G3 1.0 due to the stunlock and R2 for multiple reasons really represent a decline. Literaly every single PB game, from G1 to R2, goes downhill fast around the 2/3 mark into a lot of useless and mostly boring mob killing. The plot is generally entirely forgettable. Many of the smaller quests are cookie cutter, and sometimes even MMO-ish.

What distinguished G1 and G2 as special games were (1) its particular brand of grim and sardonic atmosphere; (2) complemented by a lack of handholding; (3) the unparalleled exploration in a hand-crafted well-designed world. These lifted the original 'good old' PB games from "a mediocre game with decent combat that really goes downhill later" to games you remember and have a special place for. All 3 elements experienced some variation in the later titles, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse, and I would argue, generally was not abandoned; e.g. G3 had good atmosphere and its orc-dominated world was an interesting and bold attempt instead of reprising G1's theme for the third time, and despite being too large had some good exploration. In fact, very similar tricks in paths, nooks and crannies, etc. are found in all 5 PB games, with many similarities between G2 and R1 in particular (including R1's starting paths before reaching the city). R2 obviously was the biggest letdown on all of these special elements, but I think it is the only PB title to so comprehensively forsake a significant amount of its special flavour. And even then it is to anybody so obviously a PB game.

Anyway, my point isn't to defend Risen 1 or 2 or G3, which I've done often enough. My point is there hasn't been such a tectonic shift that we can still expect PB's brand of RPGs from PB; and, ironically enough, it'll be tough to get something that will satisfy those who thought everything went to hell after Night of the Raven.

For example:

What is this desperate need for a new Gothic game? What is expected? Well, a Gothic 1 extension is expected. Basically the same game, but more of it and in a fresh looking environment. Despite the fact, that our company is no more the same like back in the day and we would have a hard time, getting back that “feel”, chances are, we would be accused of plagiarism and lack of innovation.
Like “copy-pasting” our selves. These are accusations, we actually have to face very often; nearly after every new project. But in combination with a new Gothic, this would be terrible for the Gothic world.

Given how much PB still reprised G1/2 stuff in Risen 1...

 

[evdk]

The fact that you have almost no place in your narrative for R2, apart from to sentences amounting to "yeah, it sucks," speaks for itself.

 

[DeepOcean]

Would you like to go back to developing a new Gothic game?

Oh, ok, the following only represents my own opinion:

To be honest: not really. The one who develops a new Gothic, will get his fingers burned. He will be slashed by magazines and burned alive by die hard fans.

The expectations for this game would be so high, we couldn’t meet them.

The times have changed, the Gothic games lived up by a different mood, we were much more experimental back in the day. Something that was very exciting and the player could feel this loose and playful approach, but this also led to exorbitant developing times and many many bugs. We fixed this, but we also parted from this sand box developing approach.

This answer is really strange, it's like the guy is really saying: Hey, we know Risen 1 was mediocre and Risen 2 was very shitty and you shouldn't expect anything decent from Piranha Bytes anymore, but it's okay if you don't compare our new games with the only truly good games we ever made (Gothic 1 and 2). This: "We parted from this sand box developing approach", is he joking? Piranha Bytes is releasing failed Gothic clones since... well, Gothic. The only reason people still care about them is the possibility of a true sucessor of Gothic 2 coming, while Risen 1 is kinda enjoyable, it's no Gothic IV. Are they abbandoning the only thing Piranha Bytes is recognized for? Many times, I think developers live on another dimension.

 

[subotaiy]

Give them a break, they just want to make a living, there are other good (semi/)sandbox Arpgs to choose from.

 

[Kraszu]

This answer is really strange, it's like the guy is really saying: Hey, we know Risen 1 was mediocre and Risen 2 was very shitty and you shouldn't expect anything decent from Piranha Bytes anymore, but it's okay if you don't compare our new games with the only truly good games we ever made (Gothic 1 and 2). This: "We parted from this sand box developing approach", is he joking? Piranha Bytes is releasing failed Gothic clones since... well, Gothic. The only reason people still care about them is the possibility of a true sucessor of Gothic 2 coming, while Risen 1 is kinda enjoyable, it's no Gothic IV. Are they abbandoning the only thing Piranha Bytes is recognized for? Many times, I think developers live on another dimension.

He is saying that they no longer experiment, and take chances, there is no game like Gothic, it wasn't revolutionary but it had some new elements, Gothic 2 was build in the same engine, and improved on the formula making guilds more meaningful there wasn't much change there but it they made that game in a year. Gothic 3 like it or not did have allot of new elements, the guild system was unlike in any other game (I am not talking about town reputation that was similar to older Gothic games but the reputation with the most important parties that allowed you to plan, and get the most from all of them).

I also can't think of any other so open action rpg game without scaling. You have plenty of option you can swim to the desert from the get go to get learning faster sooner, you can go to northern area faster, and get free Armour there. Add to that different viable character builds, and the factions that you can join, and gods that you can side with, and you can have very varied experience that would depend on your planing. Heck ideas vise G3 is one of the best rpgs ever made but the ideas aren't polished.

 

[DalekFlay]

I don't care about letting Gothic rest in peace, but them saying they're done with sandbox RPGs is really depressing. Even Risen 2 had good spots and potential when it remembered to be an open world games.

 

[Declinator]

I don't care about letting Gothic rest in peace, but them saying they're done with sandbox RPGs is really depressing. Even Risen 2 had good spots and potential when it remembered to be an open world games.

As I understood it, he does not mean that they're necessarily done with sandbox RPGs but that they are done with a particular approach to developing that is sandbox-like.

The times have changed, the Gothic games lived up by a different mood, we were much more experimental back in the day. Something that was very exciting and the player could feel this loose and playful approach, but this also led to exorbitant developing times and many many bugs. We fixed this, but we also parted from this sand box developing approach.

The whole paragraph is more about how they made games at that time and I think this experimental approach is what he means by sandbox developing approach.

Of course, in some ways this is even worse as it makes you think that they are just going to rehash old ideas or make some small calculated changes.

 

[cherry blossom]

I had a sudden flashback of the times I played Gothic and Gothic 2. The experience and your choices were so permanent and felt. Nothing like that empty and dull feeling that everything is so inconsequential in TES games.

 

[Metro]

It's so simple... all they have to do is make Risen 3 more like Risen 1 but I'm sure they'll fuck it up. Interesting he expresses some interest in redoing Gothic 1 and 2 in the new engine/updated graphics but he's right in that no one would give them the money for it. Maybe a kickstarter would work but I doubt it.

 

[toro]

It's so simple... all they have to do is make Risen 3 more like Risen 1 but I'm sure they'll fuck it up. Interesting he expresses some interest in redoing Gothic 1 and 2 in the new engine/updated graphics but he's right in that no one would give them the money for it. Maybe a kickstarter would work but I doubt it.

I would

Imagine playing Gothic with new graphics and a couple of new locations. Nothing fancy but I would still buy it because honestly I don't remember much about the first game except that it was great.

 

[Metro]

Well by no one I meant no publisher so they'd have to go kickstarter. Even so I'd probably be hesitant to back something by PB at this stage unless Risen 3 is better than 2.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I dunno, a G2 remake with better graphics and Risen's combat would be damn good. As long as they up the difficulty appropriately.

 

[DalekFlay]

Even big popular mainstream titles seem to barely sell enough HD remasters to make it worthwhile for publishers. I doubt anyone would give them money to do that for Gothic.

 

[Outlander]

They would manage to fuck it up anyway, somehow.

 

[Lancehead]

The last thing Gothic's need is a graphics overhaul; they're pretty as they are and have an atmosphere that has an authentic feel to it.

 

[Metro]

I don't disagree but I wouldn't mind one. Especially if it included fleshing out the quests more, adding some of the stuff they cut out, and maybe making the later acts a little less linear. That said, I have no hopes it will ever happen.

 

[subotaiy]

I doubt they would manage to raise enough funds through KS, since the games are not that popular outside Europe.

 

[himmy]

I always secretly hoped that the reason why they took Risen 2 in the piratey/actiony direction is because they would put out a new Gothic game soon and it would make little sense to have two franchises that go in the same direction. I still believe the Gothic brand is strong enough for both them and their publisher to want to continue milking it, but that interview doesn't really give a lot of hope to the idea that the Gothic will pretend that Forsaken Gods and Arcania never happened and continue doing its own thing, but that it will rather go towards bland, flavourless linear bullshit.

Sic transit gloria mundi