Rift / Vive / VR General

[Dexter]

Comes out tomorrow:

 

[Dexter]

There's also two KickStarters going on for VR games that seem to have met their goal, one's an MMO and the other a Action JRPG, but they look very eh:

 

[Mortmal]

So i was looking at the new headsets, are the valve knuckles the only controllers with finger tracking ? The quest 2, and G2 reverb seems to have only hand tracking, is it really a plus in games , especialy alyx ? I cant try any of those sets of course, absolutely no one own them still and VR arcade means exposing myself to people thus covid 19...

 

[Dexter]

So i was looking at the new headsets, are the valve knuckles the only controllers with finger tracking ? The quest 2, and G2 reverb seems to have only hand tracking, is it really a plus in games , especialy alyx ? I cant try any of those sets of course, absolutely no one own them still and VR arcade means exposing myself to people thus covid 19...

You can check this post to see what the various controllers "track" when you move your hands. Here's a partial list of a bunch of titles and what they support: https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/c5a3ua/vr_hardware_support_master_list_v1_finger/ but really the "squeeze" and the finger tracking mechanics on the Index Controllers are more for immersion than required for functionality (also most games are obviously programmed to work on all major VR HMDs) and isn't something that should be a primary criteria when buying one. Aside from all the old stuff the Reverb G2 and Index seem to be the major contenders right now. The G2 if resolution is important (especially good for things like Sims) with somewhat worse Controllers and Tracking, although nobody can probably provide extensive tests till it's out and the Index for the more accurate full room Tracking via base stations (not using cameras), Knuckles Controllers that are the most advanced and comfortable HMD with good sound, IPD adjustment and other features.

Can't really in good conscience recommend any Facebook shit after they went full retard. The CV1 was the "best" HMD for its time and beat the Vive in most areas, but the Rift S was already somewhat of a compromise and they're kind of discontinuing that soon. The Quest2 is a closed ecosystem Mobile HMD, and the only way to play PC games on it is via "Link", which isn't a direct video signal, but a compressed video Stream sent over USB and comes with Hardware overhead since your GPU has to encode on the fly.

Chances are there might be some more HMDs coming out next year, the PSVR2 is probably going to be revealed then after their initial console Launch and they seem to be going with Index-inspired Controllers: https://uploadvr.com/new-psvr-controllers-patent-index/

New PSVR Controllers Show Inside-Out Tracking, Index-Like Design In Fresh Patent

Jamie Feltham
September 24, 2020

A newly-discovered patent filing gives us what may be our best look yet at new PSVR controllers for the unannounced PSVR 2.

The Japanese filing, first spotted by Let’s Go Digital, includes detailed diagrams of the devices from various angles. Though the text is in Japanese and we can’t translate, the designs do seem consistent with a number of other patents and research filings we’ve seen out of Sony in the past few years.

New PSVR Controllers Spotted


The controllers, for example, look very similar to Valve’s Index Controllers, with a side-mounted ring that would likely house sensors for 6DOF tracking. The main grip for the controllers definitely looks like it could imitate the Index Controllers’ finger-tracking technology too. Earlier this year, we discovered a Sony research video that confirmed the company was working on such technology.



Those frustrated with the original PSVR’s Move controllers will be happy to hear these new PSVR controllers sport analogue sticks too. Plus there are what looks like two face buttons and two smaller buttons that could perhaps mirror the PS5’s ‘Share’ and ‘Options’ buttons. It’s interesting to note that, overall, this is a fewer amount of buttons that on the original Move controllers, making us wonder how and if these controllers might accommodate old PS4 VR games.



Another look at the design confirms that the controllers have not only triggers, but it also looks like the PSVR headset itself can track the position of the controllers. That suggests PSVR 2 might use an inside-out tracking system similar to the Oculus Quest and Rift S rather than the original PSVR, which relied on a user-facing camera.

As always, we should point out it’s very possible that these patent filings won’t amount to much but, as we said before, they’re certainly consistent with other Sony filings we’ve seen. PS5 is launching in November and will support the original PSVR, but a new iteration of the headset won’t be releasing alongside the console. Hopefully we’ll hear more about the company’s future VR plans in the new year.

 

[Doktor Best]

So after watching some Youtube vids about Virtual Desktop i went ahead and preordered a Quest 2 from baguette Amazon. 300 bucks for wireless pcvr and better resolution than Index just sounds too tempting. Unfortunately, playing Crpgs from young age on has stimulated my braingrowth so much that i now have an oversized skull with 71 IPD so i will have to see how the oculus software IPD adjustment manages to work for me.

If it doesnt work or i see too many cut corners that actually bother me i will stick to my rift cv1 until we have true wireless second gen VR.

 

[Dexter]

Falcon Age is coming out on Steam in 2 days:



Also this released last month:

 

[Doktor Best]

The Quest2 is a closed ecosystem Mobile HMD, and the only way to play PC games on it is via "Link", which isn't a direct video signal, but a compressed video Stream sent over USB and comes with Hardware overhead since your GPU has to encode on the fly.

That's not entirely true. You can connect the Quest 2 wirelessly via Virtual Desktop which has even less latency than Oculus Link and appearantly also less artifacts. You can also run it at 90 fps compared to 72 fps via link (they will implement the option to go 90 fps in a future patch) It is the reason i will try out the Quest2.

 

[Nyast]

Hmm, be careful. the developer of Virtual Desktop announced that Oculus would remove support for their 90 fps. So you'll get 72 fps in Virtual Desktop, until they decide to add it back, some day. They're probably doing that to avoid competition with their Link.

 

[Dexter]

https://uploadvr.com/facebook-account-quest-paperweight/

Facebook’s Account Verification Leaves Some Quest 2 Buyers With ‘Paperweight’

David Heaney
October 14, 2020

Quest 2 is the first Oculus headset to require a Facebook account at launch. False positives from its account verification system may be leaving some buyers with no choice but to return it.

We’re seeing reports from Quest 2 buyers who aren’t on Facebook finding difficulty creating an account. Facebook’s account verification system- reportedly administered by a machine learning agent– may ask for photographic evidence of identity. That evidence seems to be reviewed by a human, since it can apparently take weeks to process.

Others trying to re-activate old accounts to use their brand new Quest 2 also report instant suspensions. Trying to create a new account also fails.

If the review fails or your account is suspended, there appears to be no recourse for appeal. Multiple buyers called the system a “paperweight” in their emails to us about their interactions with customer service and what they feel like they can do with the latest VR headset on the market. In an emailed statement, a Facebook spokesperson said Quest 2 customers should contact Oculus Customer support to work through issues.

“People who are having trouble logging in to their device aren’t losing access to their purchased content, based on what we’re seeing in customer service reports. Someone may temporarily experience an issue accessing content if they have trouble logging in to Quest 2 with their Facebook account, but they will be able to access their content once those login issues are resolved,” the email explains.

Facebook claimed to only have “a very small number” of Oculus users running into login issues. Among the screenshots from Twitter and Reddit users reporting issues are Oculus Support agents supposedly saying they’re unable to help with Facebook account issues.

“I really wished we had a way to help you with this” one screenshot reads.

Why Is This Happening?
Facebook has a fairly unique policy for a consumer tech company: real identity. Mark Zuckerberg wants each of his users to have only 1 account, which represents themselves as a real person.

The company has also been under intense pressure in the political sphere, across the world, to curb the creation of fake accounts used to manipulate elections.

Automated account verification systems typically balance false positives (banning a real person) and false negatives (letting a bot through). Given the upcoming US presidential election, is it possible Facebook is prioritizing reducing false negatives?

At the start of the ongoing global coronavirus pandemic, Facebook’s account verification tool warned users of reduced numbers of humans verifiers. It’s unclear if it has yet found a work from home alternative, or if that would even be possible given the sensitive nature of handling account details and photo ID.

If you’re having issues with Quest 2, please let us know in the comments and check back soon for more updates.

Question: Any word on people getting their Facebook accounts banned, making quest useless?

Boz: Yeah of course, we’ve been tracking this from day one really closely, following up with every single individual case that comes across.

The number of cases isn’t large, but of course the impact is huge on those people and we take that really seriously. Every single person in VR matters to us.

So I mean I think people should continue to make sure their Facebook accounts are in good standing before they buy the headset. They can work through those problems before they do it.

And second of all is we are working really quickly through those and resolving all those issues that come up. There are Facebook account issues that can be solved and we’re working through them.

But I want to point out this is very common – Google, Apple, Xbox, pick a favorite. They make you sign in with an account and there’s a reason for that. We get to provide better services that way and stronger guarantees around things like data security, and compliance with regulations. So I’m a big fan of this move, even still.

https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-e...ulus-quest-2-privacy-policy-terms-of-service/

Facebook’s Expanded VR Policies Disallow “invading personal space” and “sexual gestures”
By Ben Lang - Oct 14, 2020

As Facebook moved to require Facebook accounts to be used with Oculus headsets, the company also updated and expanded its VR policies which now dictate rules around “personal space” and “sexual gestures”.

Facebook’s expanded VR policies, updated this week just ahead of the launch of Oculus Quest 2, make it clear: behavioral etiquette in VR is not up to the community, it’s up to Facebook. And that means that doing something like intentionally invading someone’s personal space or making rude gestures may result in platform-level punishment that limits or disables the use of your headset.

Facebook’s newly updated ‘Conduct in VR Policy‘ highlights that you should not “harass or bully other users” by “invading personal space without consent,” nor should you “conduct yourself in an offensive or abusive way,” including making “sexual gestures.”

Repeated of flagrant abuses of the rules can result in suspensions or outright bans, which fully revoke your ability to use your headset. These rules apply in everything you do in the headset, whether you’re playing a social VR experience, a competitive multiplayer VR game, or even streaming a single player experience for others to watch on Facebook Live.

Also Indexes (Indices?) seem to finally be becoming more available: https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-index-stock-check-headset-availability-shipping-countries/

 

[Venser]

New PS4 update gives you this notification.

"Following this update, users are seeing a notification about Party Safety and that voice chats in parties may be recorded. Voice chat recording for moderation is a feature that will be available on PS5 when it launches, and will enable users to record their voice chats on PS5 and submit them for moderation review. The pop up you’re seeing on PS4 right now is to let you know that when you participate in a chat with a PS5 user (post-launch), they may submit those recordings from their PS5 console to SIE."

 

[Venser]

"I have been hearing rumors to the extent that due to the Index's inability to stay up with production demand, they will likely be developing an entirely new headset with better-sourced parts, more domestic parts. And likely fixing a few of the issues and improving on all of the main features of the Valve Index 1. I would expect a Valve Index 2 sometime in 2021, but Gabe doesn't obviously talk about this directly."

I'm sure they're working on new Index but 2021 seems very unlikely to me.

 

[Dexter]

 

[Doktor Best]

So i've been playing around with the Quest2 for the past few days. Few notes:

-Account merging was quick and painless. I mean my Facebook account is basically non existant. All privacy options activated, no activity for years, nobody can see what games i own or what i play when. I guess it sucks for people who don't want a Facebook account but i think the thing is overblown. Its not like Zucker couldn't already collect data with the Oculus client.

-Resolution and clarity of course a considerable improvement over CV1. At first i thought it was decent but not huge, but then i went back to my CV1 for a bit and yeah... can't go back to that blurry mess now. I am a bit outside of the IPD range so there is some smearing on the edge of the screen, but i also had that with the CV1 + chromatic abbreviation + much worse pixel density. Only drawback visually are the black levels and yeah i'll take that for what i get.

-It is somewhat less comfortable than CV1 and i think the FOV is disappointing (about the same as CV1). Might be because i'm using the glasses spacer, which increases the distance between my eyes and the screen. Will refrain judgement until i get a pair of prescription lenses. I think the foam cover needs to go nonetheless. Standard headstrap is fine, the elite one is better but not mandatory imho

-Wireless VR is much better than i anticipated and standalone games are working surprisingly well. Yes graphics are a downgrade compared to PCVR, but playing VR games untethered in my bigger living room and being able to use a 3x3 meter area freely without having to keep in mind the rotation of a cable is really nice and feels much more like how VR is meant to be. I use almost no thumbstick rotation and duck and lean a lot more now. PCVR streaming via virtual desktop works, but is a bit too choppy for my taste since there are 2 mesh units between my computer and my router. I ordered a dedicated router and will see how that goes.

My favorite VR game OVERALL right is in fact a standalone game called Hyper Dash. Its a fast paced multiplayer arena shooter (UT/Quake style) and an absolute blast. It will come to SteamVR with the next patch so keep an eye out for that one.

My wife also digs it for boxing and beatsaber. Yeah, i think i'll keep it. Its a cheap headset after all.

 

[A horse of course]

I'm really curious about that MYST vr remake.

 

[Dexter]

 

[Venser]

New PSVR bundle was announced for Japan. It contains a camera adapter for PS5

 

[Dexter]

Prolly the most one can get out of the Quest2 graphically:

 

[puur prutswerk]

I guess it sucks for people who don't want a Facebook account but i think the thing is overblown. Its not like Zucker couldn't already collect data with the Oculus client.

Are you seriously THAT fucking retarded? Are you not seeing what is happening here?

Borg suckerzerg will not get any privacy in hell. And believe me it will be describable as hell.

 

[markec]

 

[Doktor Best]

I guess it sucks for people who don't want a Facebook account but i think the thing is overblown. Its not like Zucker couldn't already collect data with the Oculus client.

Are you seriously THAT fucking retarded? Are you not seeing what is happening here?

Borg suckerzerg will not get any privacy in hell. And believe me it will be describable as hell.

Yeah sure buddy. Did you write this hot take with your Microsoft, Google or Apple device?

 

[puur prutswerk]

I guess it sucks for people who don't want a Facebook account but i think the thing is overblown. Its not like Zucker couldn't already collect data with the Oculus client.

Are you seriously THAT fucking retarded? Are you not seeing what is happening here?

Borg suckerzerg will not get any privacy in hell. And believe me it will be describable as hell.

Yeah sure buddy. Did you write this hot take with your Microsoft, Google or Apple device?

I used my technodystopic microsoft device without which I am unable to Gayme.

Are you saying that willingly entering 80% techno dystopia is okay because we are at 60% already?

 

[Doktor Best]

I guess it sucks for people who don't want a Facebook account but i think the thing is overblown. Its not like Zucker couldn't already collect data with the Oculus client.

Are you seriously THAT fucking retarded? Are you not seeing what is happening here?

Borg suckerzerg will not get any privacy in hell. And believe me it will be describable as hell.

Yeah sure buddy. Did you write this hot take with your Microsoft, Google or Apple device?

I used my technodystopic microsoft device without which I am unable to Gayme.

You could play some games on a Linux system, so you choose to live in privacy hell too my friend in order to play the games you want to play most. We don't disagree in principle, only in detail.

Are you saying that willingly entering 80% techno dystopia is okay because we are at 60% already?

No i don't, but i question whether that difference is 20% like you claim. Maybe i am missing something here, but if i am feeding Facebook zero data other than what is needed (which is exactly what you also give to Steam by the way), what terrible fate will fall upon me for being a little Facebook data node rather than being a little Valve data node?

 

[Venser]

 

[Dexter]

No i don't, but i question whether that difference is 20% like you claim. Maybe i am missing something here, but if i am feeding Facebook zero data other than what is needed (which is exactly what you also give to Steam by the way), what terrible fate will fall upon me for being a little Facebook data node rather than being a little Valve data node?

There's a bit of a difference between Telemetry in your OS that you can turn off or a bunch of Cookies that you can block with something like Privacy Badger and what Facebook has with the Quest, using 360° cameras and a Live microphone in your home. For instance you start off by agreeing that they collect a lot of things, from your "physical features and dimensions" like "hand size", your "voice interactions", "information about your environment, physical movements and dimensions", "information about your play area and your hand movements" and could even be "video of you": https://www.oculus.com/legal/privacy-policy/

This is additional to the data they already collect about you if you use Facebook on your Desktop and Mobile and Facebook's own "Privacy Policy" that has only been growing over time:

And btw. there's already lawsuits against them over this kind of stuff: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...d-of-watching-instagram-users-through-cameras

Ultimately, Facebook isn't interested in selling you games for money like say Steam, GOG or Epic Games are, they are interested in gathering as much data as they can about you. They've explained their intentions and ambitions for the immediate future at length at the same event they announced the Quest 2 via Michael Abrash's talk (timestamped):


They want to have a "Life map" of the collective contents of your home so they can be able to categorize every single object you own and link them in “knowledge graphs”. Their stated purpose for this is apparently so they can "help you find your keys" when you lose them. They want to have a "Personal Ontology" of a user's experiences, a list of your favorite places, all your relationships with people so they know how close they are to you (like if they have agreed to come to your party), events and your life's history, or as they put it: "Lifemaps will effectively be a virtual model of your life up to that moment.". They'd also like to follow you around and record every minute of your day and be able to recognize the voice patterns of all your close friends, apparently so they can help you "block out noise" in crowded places.

Even if you don't really care about enabling any of this (you really should), there's still the bit about locking yourself into the Facebook ecosystem that's really shitty and everything you do or purchase on it is now linked to your Facebook account. They can brick your hardware and account along with everything you've bought for any reason whatsoever. Whether that's because they didn't like something you said or how you said it and they lock you out for a week or month or they disable your account entirely because some AI thought it suspected suspicious activity (like all the people blocked on Launch day for unstated reasons) or the AI detects that you are apparently an "impostor" and locks your account, good luck getting out of that one without hundreds of thousands of followers on Twatter:


There's a reason Germany even blocked the Sale of the Oculus Quest 2 and you likely had to import it from France, Italy, Austria or some other place to get it: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020...quest-sales-in-germany-amid-privacy-concerns/

 

[A horse of course]