Incline Remnants of the Precursors - Merry Christmas, bitches

[Waterd]

Are you interested in intense feedback? im a very active tester of Dominus galaxia and a veteran moo1 player that plays minmax (i can beat impossible 60 to 95% of the time depending on the rules and race).

In any case, the ai mostly gets outeco too fast, i dont know how it wastes resources, but i can basically take all its planets and it's homeworld casually often with 10-20 tech. Their tech is low, their fleet is low their defenses are low, mostly because it's economy is weak i guess. At the time i meet the Ai generally already have 2 to 4 times it's production levels which i quickly translate into a superior fleet and start invdading it's planets. I catapult that into a big lead into other races and just win.
Just with fusion bombs and Ion cannon I can create a fleet to kill the first race take its planet and catapult into a superior production compared to other races. By the tam i reach 20-30 tech i have more production than most of the galaxy in general.

I guess the AI wastes too much money in bases and fleet early on.

 

[Waterd]

i understand you want ot make no cheating ai, but it's hard to want ot test the game if games are super easy, thats why I'm testing a LOT of dominus galaxia, i have 200 hours played already. They allow players to give AI % production bonus. So no matter how easy we feel the ai, we can just add more % of bonus to the ai, it's fun trying to reach higher and higher levels of that number.

 

[RayF]

ok, so you maximize growth in the early game at the expense of defense, then you build a big invasion fleet when you first encounter an AI empire?

> a veteran moo1 player that plays minmax (i can beat impossible 60 to 95% of the time depending on the rules and race).

Not sure I can do much about that, then. I mean you have already mastered the mechanics of a game that I can recreating.

 

[Waterd]

I've heard in an interview that you want that if someone loves moo1 you want them to love RotP. What you can do is allow us veterans to give Bonuses to the AI.

 

[RayF]

I've heard in an interview that you want that if someone loves moo1 you want them to love RotP. What you can do is allow us veterans to give Bonuses to the AI.

Yes, but giving bonuses to the AI now will only mask deficiencies in the AI during alpha testing. It's better to identify those deficiences and attempt to fix them. Only when the AI is finished and the game is ready to ship should you offer blanket bonuses to compensate.

 

[Waterd]

ok, so you maximize growth in the early game at the expense of defense, then you build a big invasion fleet when you first encounter an AI empire?

I'm playing mostly Sakkras and Klackons.

I don't focus that much on defense. I focuses on expansion and go for REduction wastes/eco techs, but i'm never really that open to AI attacks i boost front planets with reserves so they can build defenses if needed and after eco i research some missles (V or X rockets). From there i build industry and go even on tech to get some propulsion, shield, some weapon, (generally ion cannon), some computer, and build my first fleet that i use to start taking planets, while i build fleet i focus on teching ground combat tech for easier invasions and Bombs to be able to take the higher base density planets. Once i think i have the most planets in the galaxy , I go into biology tech to get terraforming, controls and and hopefully Soil rich. I try to find better missles and some planetary shield.

With more planets and soil or big terraforming i ust produce more than most of the galaxy, from there i can do whatever i want.

 

[RayF]

I'm playing mostly Sakkras and Klackons.

Well, Klackons are not in ROTP yet so you can't be doing that.

I don't focus that much on defense. I focuses on expansion and go for REduction wastes/eco techs, but i'm never really that open to AI attacks i boost front planets with reserves so they can build defenses if needed and after eco i research some missles (V or X rockets). From there i build industry and go even on tech to get some propulsion, shield, some weapon, (generally ion cannon), some computer, and build my first fleet that i use to start taking planets, while i build fleet i focus on teching ground combat tech for easier invasions and Bombs to be able to take the higher base density planets. Once i think i have the most planets in the galaxy , I go into biology tech to get terraforming, controls and and hopefully Soil rich. I try to find better missles and some planetary shield.

With more planets and soil or big terraforming i ust produce more than most of the galaxy, from there i can do whatever i want.

Are the AI planets undefended or do they have missile bases?

 

[Waterd]

You are right i'm playing the klackon equivlanet in DG, i meant in general in all three games, those are what I generally play. In ROTP beta i only played Sakkras.

The ai planets are defended by 1 or 2 missile bases. But With it's low production id ont know if it can do more, but ive been surprised that sometimes their homeworld has like only 2 missile bases, when the AI in moo1 is legendarily known to build insane amount of bases in homeworld. However I find that a good thing since those bases are often a hinderance to it's production.

 

[Nutria]

It's also the point where I will hopefully be able to crowdsource AI improvements.

I would love that. It's a game that I've played so much and understand so well that I think I could actually come up with some ideas, at least at the strategic level. MOO had a lot of classic 4X AI flaws. Like don't declare war on me if you don't have forces positioned to attack me. Don't shuffle your fleets around aimlessly to be destroyed in detail.

Even if the game itself is starting to get old for me, I think I'd enjoy trying to make a better AI.

 

[RayF]

Like don't declare war on me if you don't have forces positioned to attack me.

This was added into the last alpha and some people reported it as a bug. Basically, the AI decides if it wants to go to war with war and then officially declares war after the forces are sent and the attack is imminent.

 

[RayF]

ok, the Klackon integration is done so now I'm setting an official date for the Alpha 5. Considering the month, I've decided to make it December 25th.

https://old.reddit.com/r/rotp/comments/e8g61u/alpha_5_will_be_arriving_on_december_25th/

 

[index.php]

Absolutely amazing! Thank you Ray.

 

[RayF]

Guide for Alpha testers, plus links to Explorminat's Let's Play

https://old.reddit.com/r/rotp/comments/eew3hs/guide_to_the_remnants_of_the_precursors_alpha_test/

 

[RayF]

Alpha 5 is now available for download from https://rayfowler.itch.io/remnants-of-the-precursors

 

[RayF]

This is what a Klackon city looks like

 

[Norfleet]

I have a question: Does somebody own the trademark to Psilons, Alkari, Sakkras, etc? Are you going to get yourself in any trouble directly using those names instead of calling them the Not-Psilons, Not-Alkari, Not-Sakkra?

 

[Endemic]

I have a question: Does somebody own the trademark to Psilons, Alkari, Sakkras, etc? Are you going to get yourself in any trouble directly using those names instead of calling them the Not-Psilons, Not-Alkari, Not-Sakkra?

As I understand it from the opening post and elsewhere, Ray spoke to Wargaming via email to get their permission, and being non-profit helps. He did have to change the game's title though.

This original working name for this project was "Java MOO", but was renamed at the request of Wargaming.net to remove "Master of Orion" from the title. Otherwise, they have given me tacit approval to use elements like the original races, etc, as long as the game remains free. Please no Wargaming bashing in this thread as they have been very cool towards this existence of this project.

 

[RayF]

I have a question: Does somebody own the trademark to Psilons, Alkari, Sakkras, etc? Are you going to get yourself in any trouble directly using those names instead of calling them the Not-Psilons, Not-Alkari, Not-Sakkra?

None of those names are listed with the US Patent and Trademark Office so I'm pretty sure they are not trademarked. Master of Orion is definitely trademarked, and Wargaming asked me to rename my game from "Java MOO", so I did. It is possible to copyright fictional characters but that requires specificity to be enforceable. But a race name is not a character, so it's not really applicable.

I could change the names easily if necessary.

 

[catfood]

But a race name is not a character, so it's not really applicable.

I somehow doubt you could get away with naming a race Klingon, though.

 

[Destroid]

I have a question: Does somebody own the trademark to Psilons, Alkari, Sakkras, etc? Are you going to get yourself in any trouble directly using those names instead of calling them the Not-Psilons, Not-Alkari, Not-Sakkra?

None of those names are listed with the US Patent and Trademark Office so I'm pretty sure they are not trademarked. Master of Orion is definitely trademarked, and Wargaming asked me to rename my game from "Java MOO", so I did. It is possible to copyright fictional characters but that requires specificity to be enforceable. But a race name is not a character, so it's not really applicable.

I could change the names easily if necessary.

Isn't the substance of a story covered by copyright, not patents or trademarks?

 

[RayF]

I somehow doubt you could get away with naming a race Klingon, though.

Klingon is legally trademarked by Paramount, though.

 

[RayF]

Isn't the substance of a story covered by copyright, not patents or trademarks?

What's protected by copyright in video games is the artistic expression of a character. However, stock or generic characters cannot be protected. The IP problem with the MOO1 races is that they are all generic "animal" aliens. You can't realistically enforce a copyright on a cat alien, or a lizard alien, or a bear alien. You can only copyright the art and the writing. All of our art and all of our writing is original. The race names are not trademarked. I'm not saying that Wargaming can't sue me, they can sue anyone. What I'm saying is that, if I defended myself in court, then there's a arguable chance I could prevail on merits.

Nevertheless, this would all be incredibly pointless for everyone involved because I could just slightly rename the aliens and then there's nothing to argue over. If Wargaming does indeed hold the copyright or trademark on the race names, I would happily change them in a heartbeat. But I specifically asked them what I needed to do to avoid infringing on their intellectual property especially since I was investing a considerable amount of money in the project and, after some time presumably with a lawyer, they told me to change the name of the game from "Java MOO". That was it. They could have easily also said "change the race names", but they did not.

So based on that I am going to presume I am in the clear until Wargaming demonstrates otherwise.

 

[Nutria]

The IP problem with the MOO1 races is that they are all generic "animal" aliens.

Not really too on topic, but if I remember right, Bruce Geryk? or somebody pointed out that this is one the strengths of the game. It's pretty intuitive what each species does because they come from real life.

As for Klingons, if Ronald Moore can't sue everyone who has a Mandalorian character then clearly there's a lot of leeway for ripping off other people's ideas.

 

[Norfleet]

Yeah, I was just checking if the names themselves were a potential point of contention: They obviously can't stop you from making lizard and dinosaur aliens.

 

[RayF]

The IP problem with the MOO1 races is that they are all generic "animal" aliens.

Not really too on topic, but if I remember right, Bruce Geryk? or somebody pointed out that this is one the strengths of the game. It's pretty intuitive what each species does because they come from real life.

I have never met Bruce Geryk but he and I agree on a lot of things related to gaming. Animal aliens are better both from a scientific-realism perspective and a gaming perspective.

It's another one of the accidental genius moments of MOO1.