Vapourware Realms Beyond: Ashes of the Fallen - Chaos Chronicles reborn and dead again

[Lilura]

Is this game going to have ToEE-esque crafting?

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Why should you punish the numb nut who went for bows even more by making this whole bow business not only ridiculously weak compared to proper weapons but also enforce this inventory hassle on them?
Why do warlocks get free unlimited ammo that does way more than standard bow ammo?
Why can a warrior attack with his two-handed sword for way more damage without having to carry ammo?
Why does DnD have reserve feats to give casters unlimited free ammo?
Why can any guy use his magical sword for free all day long, while magical arrows cost a metric fuckton of gold while being often nowhere near powerful enough to warrant it?

Not that it concerns me much, in DnD I hardly ever take bows because the damage is shit, the damage type is the worst (piercing) and it often comes with inane inventory juggling + atrocious arrow prices making me avoid the whole deal more often than not. Even with an "overpowered class" like arcane archer you'll weep heavy tears of sorrow the moment you encounter the first mob with any kind of serious DR. Yes, bow damage is just bad compared to other weapons in DnD and "rangers" feel always woefully gimped. It's not like free ammo helped ranged weapons in Dragon Age either, they were still shit, so it didn't really matter.

As for RoA... in TDE ranged weapons aren't as crappy as in DnD, even a (nonmagical) hand xbow will do 1d6+5 dmg when used up close, in a system with way smaller HP pools I might add, and ignoring special abilities like Marksman here which are anything but useless in TDE. Maybe if realistic ammo management and ammo weight would go hand in hand with realistic damage... I might think differently. Like 2d6+5 with a normal heavy crossbow in TDE where the enemy has perhaps 33 HP or something...

I really wonder what kind of person greatly enjoyed handling the 20x ammo stacks in Baldurs Gate or IWD without ever installing the mod that removed the cap from stacks. Even those games had unlimited quivers iirc, or returning arrows (also unlimited). Returning throwing darts/daggers/axes/hammers. All unlimited ammo - the horror.

 

[Lilura]

Well, we are hoping for rest restrictions and resource management, aren't we? F.e, denial of Vancian spellcasting rest spam.

Trying to think of ways to limit D&D archers. Consider ToEE:

Possible measures:

• Limit carrying capacity and itemization of ammo (especially enchanted ammo). You can limit vendor access by making party delve mega-dungeons with no easy way back to vendor. That way they have to scavenge inside dungeon or face prospect of lengthy backtrack. You can enforce no backtrack by having points of no return, such as tunnel collapse/magical barrier.
• Gate craftable bows (masterwork and magical) to plot progression/quest progression
• Don't itemize magical bows until way late
• Make AI zone in on ranged attackers (who will then be forced to adapt and use their mobility, instead of just getting to stand there plinking)
etc.

 

[Neanderthal]

Personally I want progression, I don't want infinite stash from beginning for convenience, I don't want all them low, mid and high level spells and items rendered pointless. From a Tenser's floating disc to a pocket plane accessible from anywhere I like to see my characters progress.

 

[ArchAngel]

Why should you punish the numb nut who went for bows even more by making this whole bow business not only ridiculously weak compared to proper weapons but also enforce this inventory hassle on them?
Why do warlocks get free unlimited ammo that does way more than standard bow ammo?
Why can a warrior attack with his two-handed sword for way more damage without having to carry ammo?
Why does DnD have reserve feats to give casters unlimited free ammo?
Why can any guy use his magical sword for free all day long, while magical arrows cost a metric fuckton of gold while being often nowhere near powerful enough to warrant it?

Not that it concerns me much, in DnD I hardly ever take bows because the damage is shit, the damage type is the worst (piercing) and it often comes with inane inventory juggling + atrocious arrow prices making me avoid the whole deal more often than not. Even with an "overpowered class" like arcane archer you'll weep heavy tears of sorrow the moment you encounter the first mob with any kind of serious DR. Yes, bow damage is just bad compared to other weapons in DnD and "rangers" feel always woefully gimped. It's not like free ammo helped ranged weapons in Dragon Age either, they were still shit, so it didn't really matter.

As for RoA... in TDE ranged weapons aren't as crappy as in DnD, even a (nonmagical) hand xbow will do 1d6+5 dmg when used up close, in a system with way smaller HP pools I might add, and ignoring special abilities like Marksman here which are anything but useless in TDE. Maybe if realistic ammo management and ammo weight would go hand in hand with realistic damage... I might think differently. Like 2d6+5 with a normal heavy crossbow in TDE where the enemy has perhaps 33 HP or something...

I really wonder what kind of person greatly enjoyed handling the 20x ammo stacks in Baldurs Gate or IWD without ever installing the mod that removed the cap from stacks. Even those games had unlimited quivers iirc, or returning arrows (also unlimited). Returning throwing darts/daggers/axes/hammers. All unlimited ammo - the horror.

Warlocks have short range, Archers murder warlocks before they get into range of their incantations.
Warrior dies to archer at any range as archers hit them twice per round and do as much (or more damage) with those two attacks. Lvl 4 fighter archer does 1d8+2(weapon spec)+2 (mighty bow, Str 14)+1 (point blank) x2 = 2d8+10 or 2d8+8 if outside of 30feet (which is another bonus for archer).
That lvl 4 fighter two handed dude does 2d6+6 (strength 18 = +4 x1.5)+2 (weapon spec) = 2d6+8... Archer dude has better initiative and better movement with similar AC or same movement with better AC. There is a good reason why Legolas murders more enemies than Aragorn+Gimli together.

Oh and archers are much better at murdering squishy casters at the back than that two handed dude or even that warlock dude that needs more than Dex to be good at that.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[JarlFrank]

To quote Peter: "If we made ammo infinite, we shouldn't even bother making an RPG."

Ammo management is a part of our gameplay, but the ammo stack size isn't final yet. We might raise it up to 50 or even 100. That's not a big deal to implement either.
But having ammo as a thing you pay money for is definitely in the game.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Will this game work on linux manjaro xfce on a laptopn with intergrated graphics card?

 

[JarlFrank]

It works on my shitty old graphics card from 2008, and if your graphics card is even worse than that you don't deserve PC games.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

It works on my shitty old graphics card from 2008, and if your graphics card is even worse than that you don't deserve PC games.

My laptop graphics card is top of the line integrated chipset (Intel® UHD Graphics 620) able to run dota 2 at mid settings with stable 60 fps.
I want to take your game to remote location and play it in a cabin house on a laptop to completion.

 

[Haba]

To quote Peter: "If we made ammo infinite, we shouldn't even bother making an RPG."

Ammo management is a part of our gameplay, but the ammo stack size isn't final yet. We might raise it up to 50 or even 100. That's not a big deal to implement either.
But having ammo as a thing you pay money for is definitely in the game.

Just have infinite stacks for arrows and the ability to recover some of the arrows fired after combat.

 

[Jimmious]

To quote Peter: "If we made ammo infinite, we shouldn't even bother making an RPG."

Ammo management is a part of our gameplay, but the ammo stack size isn't final yet. We might raise it up to 50 or even 100. That's not a big deal to implement either.
But having ammo as a thing you pay money for is definitely in the game.

Just have infinite stacks for arrows and the ability to recover some of the arrows fired after combat.

Have max stack sizes depending on weight and strength limits for each character

 

[AbounI]

It works on my shitty old graphics card from 2008, and if your graphics card is even worse than that you don't deserve PC games.

Good to know, mine is from 2009

 

[Crispy]

Latest alpha of combat looks really, really cool.

Semi-serious question, though, JarlFrank: Aren't you guys worried about your reputation, especially here on Codex, affecting your sales and your image? I mean you've still got swastikas right in your user profile.

You can argue all you want that swastikas don't mean what people think they mean and that you don't care about what people think about what the Nazis did, but you do know as well as I do that in today's, shall we say, sensitive political climate, any and all affections you've clearly plastered all over the place here at Codex and likely elsewhere towards Mr. Hitler and his friends aren't going to be looked upon with much tolerance.

Non-issue? Comments?

P.S. apologies if this has already been addressed previously ITT

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Latest alpha of combat looks really, really cool.

Semi-serious question, though, JarlFrank: Aren't you guys worried about your reputation, especially here on Codex, affecting your sales and your image? I mean you've still got swastikas right in your user profile.

You can argue all you want that swastikas don't mean what people think they mean and that you don't care about what people think about what the Nazis did, but you do know as well as I do that in today's, shall we say, sensitive political climate, any and all affections you've clearly plastered all over the place here at Codex and likely elsewhere towards Mr. Hitler and his friends aren't going to be looked upon with much tolerance.

Non-issue? Comments?

P.S. apologies if this has already been addressed previously ITT

They're ironic swastikas.

 

[fantadomat]

It is not like anyone that buys games really care about that shit. Most people don't give a rat ass. From the look of it,it seems like the game is aimed at that niche of rpg fans. I don't believe that they are trying to become EA.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Aren't you guys worried about your reputation, especially here on Codex, affecting your sales and your image?

Don't fetish-shame people.

 

[JarlFrank]

Latest alpha of combat looks really, really cool.

Semi-serious question, though, JarlFrank: Aren't you guys worried about your reputation, especially here on Codex, affecting your sales and your image? I mean you've still got swastikas right in your user profile.

You can argue all you want that swastikas don't mean what people think they mean and that you don't care about what people think about what the Nazis did, but you do know as well as I do that in today's, shall we say, sensitive political climate, any and all affections you've clearly plastered all over the place here at Codex and likely elsewhere towards Mr. Hitler and his friends aren't going to be looked upon with much tolerance.

Non-issue? Comments?

P.S. apologies if this has already been addressed previously ITT

People who are offended by things don't browse the Codex

 

[Crispy]

Well, that was disappointingly underwhelming. But I shan't give up so easily.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, what's to stop someone like me (not that I would actually do this), who knows you oh-so-well, from getting on your forums and spreading the word that one of the game's "developers" is an avowed Nazi / Nazi sympathizer? Not to mention the other rather... odd hobbies that you have, Jarl.

Again, I have no intention to attempt to thwart or otherwise affect your game's success in any way; rather, I'm quite looking forward to it and its success. But I can't help but wonder how you're maintaining such a willfully obtuse attitude towards your own possible adverse reflection on that which you and your colleagues are working so hard.

Then again, Jarl, you've always been like this, right?

 

[Crispy]

Vault Dweller, please be honest about something with me.

Did you change from your Ubersturmführer tag and avatar intentionally, knowing that maintaining that even here in the shithole backwater that is Codex might come back to haunt you?

Not to compare you to Jarl, but the parallels are tantalizing at least in terms of potential drama.

 

[JarlFrank]

Then again, Jarl, you've always been like this, right?

Yes.

Also, the only way to deal with SJWs and their (potential) outrage is to completely ignore them.

This is the Codex, and all I have on my profile is "Location: 卐 The RPG Reich 卐".

Just, like... whatever. That's par for the course on the Codex because everyone knows RPG Codex is the Stormfront of gaming sites

 

[StrongBelwas]

I would be extremely surprised if the Venn Diagram Intersection of 'People interested in the kind of game Realms Beyond is' and 'People who care about developers' behavior enough to be a deal breaker' wasn't very, very small. And really, what other options do you have if you want something like this? Maybe a small group will torrent it instead of paying but it isn't like they have a bunch of other games to go to.

 

[Crispy]

This is the Codex, and all I have on my profile is "Location: 卐 The RPG Reich 卐".

I admire your defiant attitude, but let's please not pretend this is the only loving reference you've made to the TR here and elsewhere. I mean that would just be dishonest.

Also, lest we forget about Rex's infamous example, well, there it is.

 

[JarlFrank]

But this thread is about Realms Beyond, and not any personal statements, of either serious or shitposting nature, that I have made on the Codex at any point in time.

My personal Codex posting histoy is entirely irrelevant to the development of this game. So there is zero reason to discuss it in this thread. Let's get back to the actual game instead.

 

[Crispy]

Ha! We'll see about that!

But fine. Your game, "your" thread.

Let's see what VD has to add, but I'll put this to bed for now. Unless it heats up again later.