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Random thoughts on whatever JRPG you're currently playing?

InD_ImaginE

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
5,967
Pathfinder: Wrath
Playing SRW 3 in SRW Complete Box for PSX.

Game is hard. Thing is unlike later entries in the series like Alpha onward. there are several glaring issue with the difficulty:
You seem to be playing it wrong. From memory the way to play the game is to make extensive use of the fortress/carrier thingo's massive AOE attacks.

The MAP attacks are only usable once a stage each unit due to energy problem. Maybe twice later in the game but it would requires consumables that restores 200 EN. The most accessible, one from your capital ship, has 900 power points which is equivalent of the strongest Real Robot attacks.

Mind you the enemies have maybe 3 - 4k health. A MAP attack usable once a stage will probably save you one turn or something. Later maybe you have ZZ Gundam but you don't get ZZ until chapter 25 ish (mid-game). Even then ZZ MAP attack has base damage of 1200, a bit better than capital ship's sure but really not a game changer in a game where enemies have reinforcements in spades. Putting resources to strengthen MAP attacks feels like a trap too. You really needs the money to upgrade the boss killer move instead when bosses wither 10 - 20 k HP start to appear late game.

I am still playing to, and SRW games are made for at least 2 play through story wise. This first one is more of testing the water and understanding what works or not.
 

Nutmeg

Arcane
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
23,741
Location
Mahou Kingdom
Yeah MAP attacks. If you use them well you can finish most scenarios in ~5 turns with never upgrading anything. There's guides out there if you're stuck.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
885
At least after the classic era, the only really hard game is A Portable, the rest go from easy to wondering why the villains are even trying to stop their inevitable doom and wondering how they have the slightest bit of confidence in thinking they can stop the good guys.
 

InD_ImaginE

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
5,967
Pathfinder: Wrath
At least after the classic era, the only really hard game is A Portable, the rest go from easy to wondering why the villains are even trying to stop their inevitable doom and wondering how they have the slightest bit of confidence in thinking they can stop the good guys.

I think Alpha and Alpha Gaiden was quite challenging as well. Been a looooong time and back then I can't read a lick of Japanese and don't understand shit tho. IIRC Alpha Gaiden even punishes you for playing well with the SR system because you get worse units or something.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
11,035
Location
Nottingham
Finished Tales or tales of Berseria earlier this week.

Great fun all round. Yeah, usually cheesy/trashy shit included, combat especially, but as an overall game it's really enjoyable.

Party banter is fucking brill, pacing is spot on, story is a bit all over but layered & told well, and it's prob one of the best JRPGs I've played this decade. Plenty of flaws, but what it does well is good enough to carry it.

:4/5:
 

ebPD8PePfC

Savant
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
225
The Guided Fate Paradox - This game is a sequel to Z.H.P. Unlosing Ranger VS Darkdeath Evilman that copies most of it, and adds a few bad ideas of its own.

ZHP is a roguelike where you play as a super sentai hero on a mission to defeat Darkdeath Evilman. The writing is by NIS, which means bad humor and nonsensical dialogues that go on for way too long. I don't enjoy their style so I skipped it after the first third of the game. ZHP had two interesting mechanics:
- You could see where enemies had vision. Tiles where enemies could see are colored in white, until you step inside them, at which point they turn red and the monster starts chasing you. If another monster stepped inside the red zone, it would also become alert of your presence. This allowed for some basic stealth where you avoid enemies by going around or between their vision zones.
- Each weapon and armor has a special attack or attribute. Most would give a special attack that hit certain tiles with an elemental attack. Other would change positions for you or the enemy. Some allowed you to eat equipment or avoid traps. You have five slots, so you have to pick and choose.

Sadly those two mechanics were undermined by:
- Poor dungeon design. You don't need to sneak around when the entire level has no walls. You can't sneak around when rooms are super tiny and corridors are one tile wide.
- Stats were far more important than special attacks. It wasn't a situation where grinding was optional to overcome challenges, you pretty much had to grind monsters with levels lower than you and then you so you could rush the boss. This was mainly because leveling had a drastic impact on the HP, so if you didn't do it everything would one shot you.

The Guided Fate Paradox is the same game with a new coat of paint. Whatever changes made are only for the worse:
- Reused dungeon designs. Stealth is still mostly useless.
- There's barely any items drops within the dungeon. Without items you lose, so to compensate for it the developers made it easier to bring equipment from outside the dungeon in the form of temporary item sets. This means you don't get random item combinations, with random special attacks, which were vital to creating cool unique situations in ZHP. ZHP had the classic roguelike situation where you find yourself in a hard fight with a couple of items, and have to stop and think how to use them to get out of it. The Guided Fate Paradox removed it by removing randomness.
In addition, those sets you created can be grinded and improved. They could be lost on death, so you had to save scum. To quote a review:
Reviewer said:
This can be incredibly frustrating when the game gives you the ability to level up equipment after continued use through the blacksmith, and hours of progress can be lost in a single swoop. This can obviously be avoided by following the golden rule in roguelikes: save often, as I was reloading the game a lot.
Reviewer said:
the golden rule in roguelikes: save often
Vile scum.
The game gives you a way to deal with it later on, but save scumming is still the proper way to play the game for various reasons.
- Even more story than the first game. The first game had maybe a 1/5 ratio of game and story. This one is closer to 1/2. I thought it was bad in the first game. This one is way way worse.

I liked ZHP. It had good ideas, even if the execution wasn't good enough. The Guided Fate Paradox is the same game, only worse. There's no reason to play it.
 

Swigen

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
1,014
How many fucken boss fights is Trails in the Sky SC gonna cram between save points?! Thank GAWD for rainbow / surprise cookies! FUCK!!
 

Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,936
Location
The Khanate
Xenoblade's story turned it up to 11, holy shit. One twist after another. I'm a bit concerned X will be a letdown after this since it apparently has less of a story focus. At least I haven't spoiled myself as much on that game, I only know a detail of a certain brown girl and not even the full implications of that.

I generally have a bad habit of spoiling myself beforehand by reading wikis and whatnot.

I also ran into the first serious emulation hickups after 100 or so hours. The game would fail to start a cutscene at the ship on two occasions, which I fixed by disabling the 60 fps hack (which works wonderfully 99.5% of the time, and seems to make the game run better overall besides the framerate) and loading from a proper save with fullscreen disabled.

Curiously, I think I just saw the first prerendered cutscene as well, when all of them so far had been in-engine. It was a complex scene but not necessarily more complex than the ones before it, so I dunno.
 
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Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,936
Location
The Khanate
Ending thoughts on Xenoblade Chronicles.

Dickson really got a raw deal, getting such a lame reason for being a villain. At least the leadup to the end was cool.

It got pretty cheesy and fedora tipping tier for my liking. Sure the current god may have been a megalomaniac but he was just a human after all. And then everyone lived together happily ever after and Fiora lost her great cyborg body. :decline:

Onwards to X.
 

Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,936
Location
The Khanate
Early thoughts on Xenoblade X. There's a LOT of mechanics here. The first game had a comparatively modest amount, which is not to say that it was simple - learning how visions worked, for example. You've got stuff like the soul voices where using the correct types of attacks at the right time when a teammate calls for them gives bonuses. The addition of the party member count from 3 to 4 also makes things more hectic and you have to rely on the AI even more.
Enemies can have appendages and they made a less-than-optimal fix to the lockon system where you have to use R + face buttons to switch targets to the left or the right.
While 1 had a huge UI that was perhaps a tad big even for my preferences, X has like 3x the amount of information on screen while taking up less space because everything is tiny. I do think the HP and TP (morale) bars should be larger at the very least.
Visually it is hella impressive for the Wii U and I don't mind people looking like barbie dolls with environments like these, save for the rather crap looking city. I do wish I could run it at 60 fps but it just fluctuates too much and thus slows down.
The music certainly has a different flavor though I don't know what I think of the vocals yet. Also, audio levels are off and the game offers precisely zero ways to change this. You've got a dozen different settings for the camera but not a single one for audio.
I do miss the British voice acting - having everyone speak with bog standard American accents just doesn't have the same appeal. I am not a huge fan of Elma's voice actor - she sounds pretty detached. There are undub versions of the game but finding even a regular copy that worked with Cemu and downloading and extracting a million archives was hassle enough.
 

Reality

Learned
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
391
I replayed through Grandia 1 when it got the G1+G2 HD release this year.

I think this game has a much better tone than I had remembered - I love the childish sense of adventure all through disc 1. Disc 2 loses it a touch because the Plot attacks. I love how disc 1 is just a bunch of mini-vignettes that aren't really related to saving the world at all, but for these kids fighting the ghost ship and climbing on top of the wall is the greatest thing in their lives at the time. The big, bombastic Grandia theme helps. The "timeline" combat is still good even though we have Child of Light and other modern indie games as a comparison nowadays - However, even though combat itself is good, charather progression is terrible - G1 is a "use skill to level up in it game" but the requirements to learn new skills / magics are arbitrary on a charather to charather basis (like 3 earth 5 fire), completely hidden in-game, reaching the same skill level won't teach a skill to all charathers - the spell just isn't on some of their skill lists regardless of if you have the ranks for it. Magic is a lot worse off than physicals - it levels far slower, and is generally either weak or "ineffiecnt", eg the few good spells are just to wipe through random encounters at expense of all your mana, but worthless on boss fights. Their is a serious oversight with buff spells though - they stack up to 7 or -7 ( +5-5 in Grandia 2), but Disc 1 bosses cannot dispel like Disc 2 bosses can, and all bosses are like 70% physical action 30% magic action, so the first level earth spell Diggin, on multiple charathers is kind of OP. Healing spells are also bad, because item-based healing is better throughout the entire game - this is mostly because a "secondary" effect of skill leveling is that it make the "casting time" of a skill near instant, but because magic levels so slowly the FIXED cast time of items is always better without more grinding than necessary to beat the game. I like the disc 2 boss design because many of them seem like they were made with the combat system in mind (eg multiple parts so you can't timeline stun them) but it is a little anti-climatic and easy. Not holding that against it because most 5th console gen RPGs are like that in lategame. I think the 2nd player charather is misleading (Sue looks like she'd be a magic charther but her MP is so horrible compared to Justin and later charathers), but otherwise I didn't have a problem building anyone.

I think I might have changed my old opinion and like the game more than Grandia 2, even though G2 fixes the charather progression thing with a "pseudo materia" system, and has better characterization in the story . I don't think it can compete with raw Charm despite winning other areas. I think if I played Grandia 2 with same playstyle I used back in the day It would still come off as better, but nowadays I can't ignore "buyable mogay bombs" and IP draining enemy's to death as a 1 strat to rule them all kind of thing.
 

Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,936
Location
The Khanate
15 or so hours in and you get the first plot twist. It could've easily worked much later in the game as well, though I get its purpose in being revealed this early. "X was actually Y all along!" tier twists can feel cheap if done late - you want some investment from the player before you pull the rug from under their feet but not so much that they feel cheated.
This does put a bit of a wrench into what I thought I had been spoiled about regarding one major character, but I suppose that's good since what I thought I had been spoiled about got switched up.
I also want to meet whoever insists on having this race of tiny furry faggots as "comedy relief" and make em listen to Tatsu until mad. And because one mascot race isn't enough, they also needed to add squeaky mini Jar Jars. If I was given creative control of a scifi franchise, I'd make sure not a single one of these races would be included.
 

Tse Tse Fly

Savant
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
710
I'm looking for a jrpg with good itemization and character building system, can you suggest me any? (I could not find a more appropriate thread to ask and I do not consider this matter deserving a thread of its own)
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
11,158
JRPGs with any kind of character building system are a pretty rare bird to begin with.

The most complicated character building systems Japanese rpgs tend to use (outside of some obscure pc engine stuff) is usually wizardry styled stat/skill gains based on what class you are at level up examples of the top of my head, a number of dragon quest games, a final fantasy, Dragons Dogma, FFT, Ogre Battles, the Japanese Wizardry games, Stranger of Sword City, the Elminage series (probably a lot of other blobbers aweigh could tell you about).

Improve by use systems to develop characters in certain ways are rarer as well can really only think of Front Mission, Hybrid Heaven, and Vagrant Story. Granted I am not exactly a great expert on the subject basically being largely unfamiliar with post ps1 era jrpgs.
 
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Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
Anything SaGa. A bunch of them just got released in the West for the first time, so now's as good a time as any to dive into the series.
 

Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,936
Location
The Khanate
This whole resource management aspect in Xenoblade X is something a better strategist than I could easily pump hours into. You explore areas and install probes that generate revenue or minerals with different areas having different ratings for each. Identical probes can be linked together to increase production and you can also include booster and duplicator probes to do what it says on the tin. That, and storage probes which increase how much minerals you can carry at once - I'm currently getting 24k a turn (every 30 real life minutes) with an equal maximum capacity, as well as 30k credits, but the maximums allowed are somewhere in the range of 150-200k for both with optimum probe placement and all locations unlocked, which is a feat to achieve in itself since the better probes are really quite rare. For reference, the base level 30 mechs cost a few hundred thousand, with a heavy mech using additional store bought gear going for about 700k, and you want to be unlocking them for party members as well - I just bought my third one and am gearing it up. A full tank lasts a decent while on those heavy mechs, but it can only be filled with minerals and it takes just short of 2 rounds worth to fill one up, or just short of an hour. This all happens in the background and you can leave the game just running to farm cash and minerals but playing at a regular pace, the pressure is there to ramp up production since now I have three mechs to gear and fuel, with more to come in the future. The level 50s cost 5x and I don't even want to know what the level 60s cost.

The boss fights seems to be tuned with this in mind - the chapter 9 boss wasn't doable for me with just one so I had to buy another, and now the chapter 10 boss seems to expect three.
 

Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,936
Location
The Khanate
Xenoblade X main story beat. I will still likely return to do some post game content, but I'll compare the stories between 1 and X now, without spoilers.

Overall, X had a weaker story, though this is not to say it was bad, but partially a result of the structure the devs went with which deviated greatly from how 1 handled things, which had a character focused, linear story revolving around a set party that you could follow straight to the end with practically no side distractions. The experience is the same for everyone so the pacing can be finetuned. X meanwhile has a chapter based structure where you take on story missions that require you to be certain level, complete certain side missions and do exploration to continue. This means that a far greater percentage of game time is spent on "side" content which may almost be the main content, and everyone will have a different experience as they'll invest in different characters and possibly completely miss some, as you can choose from a party of a dozen or so with the DLC characters. However, even while you can technically pick any 3 of those to join you, in practice you will always have Elma who is the main protagonist (the player character is silent and more like an observer - I am fine with not being the Chosen One, but I am yet to play an RPG where I think the player being silent made it anything other than awkward). Anyway, you will also likely want to have Lin as she is also almost always required for story missions, so that leaves one spot for 10 characters to fight over. You can quite easily juggle two, but three or more become a hassle, as absent characters are not kept leveled which means the fewer you focus on, the more efficient it is. Furthermore, one late-story addition is restricted from joining most of the story missions, while another becomes available after you're level 44 and joins you at... level 32. Seriously? The story is 90% done and you want to move on to the final battle, but if you wanted to bring this new character with you, you'd first have to go and grind a dozen levels for her to make her useful.

So how does this all tie to the story? For me it meant that during the last chapter's cutscenes, the game tried to do a montage type of thing by showing these people from different squads working together, except this was the first time I saw several of them as they were optional squad members I never got around to recruiting because the game discouraged experimenting with several characters for that one free party slot. Another small annoyance is that you can't even build a proper backup roster to have with you on the go, but rather everytime you want to switch in a member, you have to go and fetch them in the city to join your party. That, and register a mech for them at the barracks, and manually change their armor for when you can't use mechs. Now imagine doing that for ten characters. It's a shame because all of these issues could have been solved by auto leveling absent members, enabling easy mech registering and switching as well as gear sets and actually having backup party members on the go. The characters themselves were fine for the most part, save for Tatsu who is the absolute worst kind of mascot character that simply ruins one scene after another. He is glued to Lin who is actually useful and required for many missions and their cutesy interactions became really grating.

The very end was a mixed bag, with several twists being revealed at once and the Saturday morning cartoon main villain failing to be captivating. Depending on how you count, there were four boss fights in a row and my mechs ran out of fuel during the third one, which was a first. Some more reveals soured by technical issues - imperfect emulation resulted in some glimmer effects causing huge distracting lines of blocks to appear on the screen for a majority of the cutscenes. And then some unnecessary cliffhangers for a spinoff with likely no sequel ever being planned.

All of this comes across as quite negative but I want to stress that I very much enjoyed my time with the game, just that the story and the way party members were handled were some of the game's weakest points.
 
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Ysaye

Arbiter
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
790
Location
Australia
How many fucken boss fights is Trails in the Sky SC gonna cram between save points?! Thank GAWD for rainbow / surprise cookies! FUCK!!

Pretty sure I just went through a five boss battles in a row (without a save point) in Cold Steel 3.....
 
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
289
Puukko Thanks for sharing your XB experiences. Based on your enjoyment of XBC I think you would love XBC2. If you absolutely hate anime/JRPG tropes you wouldn't like it, but if you love voice acting and the atmosphere of ZBC I think XBC2 is for you. Plus, there will be a HD remake of XBC coming soon for Switch. The DLC and prequel for XBC2 is also good value.

There are plenty of other good games for the Switch, but I get not buying a system for one game. I did for Breath of the Wild and if not for XBC2 I feel I would have wasted my money.
 

Anonona

Savant
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
688
Ending thoughts on Xenoblade Chronicles.

It got pretty cheesy and fedora tipping tier for my liking.

While it may seem quite fedora tipping, actually the game is greatly influenced by Gnosticism. So much in fact that many names are straight up taken from concepts and figures of said religion.

Particularly, the concept of the demiurge and fake malign god play an important role. The whole story of the game is basically a "creation myth" of the universe relaying heavily on Gnosticism both in its narrative and symbolism. This is not the first time that the developers had done so, both Xenosaga and Xenogears are famous for being charged with a lot of religious themes

as for it being cheesy, I guess it can be subjective, but I guess being "anime" end up bringing a certain degree of cheesiness always.

Just a little point I wanted to remark, as I enjoyed that aspect quite a lot, even if it can be a little too in your face once you read a bit about it. Thanks for sharing your experiences with the games.
 

Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,936
Location
The Khanate
Yeah, I am well aware of the Gnosticism aspect. I have been playing plenty of SMT games this year so I am familiar with the concept of the demiurge and so forth.

Yaldabaoth was a pretty fitting name for Egil's mech.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Messages
697
I've been playing Shining Force 1 for the first time,also my first Strategy RPG and i can already say that the gameplay is more exciting than 99% of others jrpgs i had played.Unlike in others jrpgs,the combat in SF doens't revolve around spamming attack button for 1 billion of times through hundreds of random encounters until you reach the boss(if there's even a boss),in SF every fight is dangerous if you screw up,i even lost my main character in the first fight,magic feels powerful,status effects matters alot more than in others jrpgs and just the fact that you can position your units in the battlefield leads to a lot more possibilities.
 
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Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,741
I'm 22 hours into Dragon Quest IV, I can't believe some people say this game has "character development": characters barely speak throughout the game, and there's hardly any development whatsoever in their questlines. The major exception is the tomboy Princess because she leaves her castle and explores the rest of her continent, which implies some sort of psychological growth compared to simply solving the mystery of a few missing children, or a merchant opening up his own shop. But still...

These JRPGs with mute protagonists just reinforce my belief that characters with a voice are an absolute need whenever you are playing an RPG that doesn't actually let you be whoever you want to be. Unable to express yourself through your own actions, the only development to be seen is through a character that speaks his own opinion (e.g. Final Fantasy IV).
 

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