Congratulations - I tried that game and not only could I not get into it, I can't even remember anything about it apart from the main character wore a red jacket and was very enthusiastic even for JRPG standards, and there was a very academic professor mage type lady who needed to get out more, but she had a young genius mage brother.
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Random thoughts on whatever JRPG you're currently playing?
- Thread starter Exhuminator
- Start date
Congratulations - I tried that game and not only could I not get into it, I can't even remember anything about it apart from the main character wore a red jacket and was very enthusiastic even for JRPG standards, and there was a very academic professor mage type lady who needed to get out more, but she had a young genius mage brother.
Puukko
Arcane
I haven't looked into Tales games in a long while but back when I did I got the impression all of them had some major flaw that put me off. Like none of them could be unanimously recommended.
Reality
Learned
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2019
- Messages
- 391
I played Tales of Symponia and it was bearable but I skipped like 80% of the sidequests.
I also played Tales of Phantasia (the first in series SNES game) and I HATED it the whole way through. - No invincibility frames on any enemies means from first moonk to final boss you just stunlock everything by mashing A at them - ruining the hybird fighting game input RPG completely (Tales of Symphina has some I frames (after knockdowns) but not enough) I hear that PS3 era + games are better mechanically, but I found needing more I-frames on enemies (TOO EASY) in general seemed to keep the series done for me.
I also played Tales of Phantasia (the first in series SNES game) and I HATED it the whole way through. - No invincibility frames on any enemies means from first moonk to final boss you just stunlock everything by mashing A at them - ruining the hybird fighting game input RPG completely (Tales of Symphina has some I frames (after knockdowns) but not enough) I hear that PS3 era + games are better mechanically, but I found needing more I-frames on enemies (TOO EASY) in general seemed to keep the series done for me.
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2015
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- 5,967
I like all of them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Like most JRPG, Tales is more about the overall plot but more so about the characters so there is that. Xillia is kinda meh on that front tho.
Like most JRPG, Tales is more about the overall plot but more so about the characters so there is that. Xillia is kinda meh on that front tho.
Grampy_Bone
Arcane
Vesperia was pretty universally liked. I'd recommend that game to anyone.
I really enjoyed the combat and character building in Graces.
Xillia 1/2 were very meh. World and dungeon design took a big nosedive. Combat was just about spamming link attacks which took away a lot of combo strategy.
Zestiria and Berseria put me to sleep. Probably won't get the next game in the series. I don't know if they're bad or if they just aren't for me anymore.
Anyway I finally finished Metal Max 3. Fun game, ending was a little meh. It badly needed a quicksave/suspend feature as I was playing it on an actual DS and the last dungeon was grueling. I went through the whole finale without a single upgrade for either characters or tanks, which was underwhelming. Was running out of ammo on the last boss, thought about muling spare guns on my towed tank but managed to eak out a win. There's postgame bosses but I don't feel like bothering with them.
Here's hoping someone translates Metal Max 4.
I really enjoyed the combat and character building in Graces.
Xillia 1/2 were very meh. World and dungeon design took a big nosedive. Combat was just about spamming link attacks which took away a lot of combo strategy.
Zestiria and Berseria put me to sleep. Probably won't get the next game in the series. I don't know if they're bad or if they just aren't for me anymore.
Anyway I finally finished Metal Max 3. Fun game, ending was a little meh. It badly needed a quicksave/suspend feature as I was playing it on an actual DS and the last dungeon was grueling. I went through the whole finale without a single upgrade for either characters or tanks, which was underwhelming. Was running out of ammo on the last boss, thought about muling spare guns on my towed tank but managed to eak out a win. There's postgame bosses but I don't feel like bothering with them.
Here's hoping someone translates Metal Max 4.
newtmonkey
Arcane
Dragon Warrior II (NES)
I completed this one back in the day and have since then either finished it or got to the very end a couple of times. It's probably my favorite game in the series as it only takes a few hours to get access to the boat once you know the game well, and from that point on it becomes quite nonlinear. From that point, it's not too difficult to get all the keys in the game, which gets you access to a lot of powerful equipment.
One thing that is very refreshing about this game is its lack of "boss" enemies. I've never liked boss enemies in JRPGs, as they tend to serve as "gates" blocking you from continuing on with the game unless you have reached a certain character level. They also result in the "town-cave-boss-town-cave-boss" linear progression seen in so many of the 16-bit JRPGs.
DW2 does it right. There are basically no boss enemies other than the final boss; just getting through a cave or tower can be difficult (and rewarding) enough. There actually aren't even that many dungeons, which is something DW2 has in common with the first DW game. A large portion of DW2 is overland adventure where you are exploring a large world and gathering information in towns... in that respect, it's actually very reminiscent of Ultima (especially in the second half of the game where you are collecting a number of doodads secreted away all over the world).
The Dragon Quest series became more and more linear and story-focused with time, and the one-two punch of Final Fantasy IV and Dragon Quest V on the SFC probably sealed the fate of JRPGs as story-focused linear experiences especially during the 16-bit generation. There are exceptions, of course, such as the Romancing SaGa games and the Metal Max series (primarily the creation of Hiroshi Miyaoka, who was "scenario assistant" and also responsible for dungeon design for the first three Dragon Quest games).
I completed this one back in the day and have since then either finished it or got to the very end a couple of times. It's probably my favorite game in the series as it only takes a few hours to get access to the boat once you know the game well, and from that point on it becomes quite nonlinear. From that point, it's not too difficult to get all the keys in the game, which gets you access to a lot of powerful equipment.
One thing that is very refreshing about this game is its lack of "boss" enemies. I've never liked boss enemies in JRPGs, as they tend to serve as "gates" blocking you from continuing on with the game unless you have reached a certain character level. They also result in the "town-cave-boss-town-cave-boss" linear progression seen in so many of the 16-bit JRPGs.
DW2 does it right. There are basically no boss enemies other than the final boss; just getting through a cave or tower can be difficult (and rewarding) enough. There actually aren't even that many dungeons, which is something DW2 has in common with the first DW game. A large portion of DW2 is overland adventure where you are exploring a large world and gathering information in towns... in that respect, it's actually very reminiscent of Ultima (especially in the second half of the game where you are collecting a number of doodads secreted away all over the world).
The Dragon Quest series became more and more linear and story-focused with time, and the one-two punch of Final Fantasy IV and Dragon Quest V on the SFC probably sealed the fate of JRPGs as story-focused linear experiences especially during the 16-bit generation. There are exceptions, of course, such as the Romancing SaGa games and the Metal Max series (primarily the creation of Hiroshi Miyaoka, who was "scenario assistant" and also responsible for dungeon design for the first three Dragon Quest games).
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Gastrick
Cipher
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2020
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- 1,733
newtmonkey
I had the exact same thoughts. My playthrough was a bit different, where I cucked out and looked up where the last two secret items were and managed to get the rare magic hat. Does your impression of it being the best come from playing III and VI as well? Asking because I didn't play them and they seem like other interesting titles.
I had the exact same thoughts. My playthrough was a bit different, where I cucked out and looked up where the last two secret items were and managed to get the rare magic hat. Does your impression of it being the best come from playing III and VI as well? Asking because I didn't play them and they seem like other interesting titles.
newtmonkey
Arcane
Gastrick
I feel like III takes too long to open up, though being able to create your own party ala Wizardry helps to make up for it somewhat. I've only barely played VI but really didn't care much for it, though would be interested to hear if it becomes nonlinear at some point (I would be surprised if it did since IV, V, VII, and VIII are quite linear).
I feel like III takes too long to open up, though being able to create your own party ala Wizardry helps to make up for it somewhat. I've only barely played VI but really didn't care much for it, though would be interested to hear if it becomes nonlinear at some point (I would be surprised if it did since IV, V, VII, and VIII are quite linear).
Twizman
Scholar
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2016
- Messages
- 137
Very happy to see a positive take on the game! I'm always surprised to see DWII viewed as a 'black sheep'. From my perspective it's awesome, and an amazing achievement. Great pacing, combat and exploration. Feel like it deserves more credit historically for what it achieves as a party-based rpg.
Also interesting to read your understanding on the cementing of the shift towards the more modern jrpg style. I think it seems to be happening around the time of FFIV, and with the popular DQV coming the next year that makes sense.
I love the late 80s early 90s era jrpgs the most. Seems to be the marriage of Wizardry dungeon crawling and turn-based combat, and maybe Ultima world exploration, within a simplified, clean interface. Wonder if there is somewhere to find like-minded people to talk with about this era.
Also interesting to read your understanding on the cementing of the shift towards the more modern jrpg style. I think it seems to be happening around the time of FFIV, and with the popular DQV coming the next year that makes sense.
I love the late 80s early 90s era jrpgs the most. Seems to be the marriage of Wizardry dungeon crawling and turn-based combat, and maybe Ultima world exploration, within a simplified, clean interface. Wonder if there is somewhere to find like-minded people to talk with about this era.
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Grampy_Bone
Arcane
Yuji Horii himself has called DQ2 rushed and not even play tested. That's why the endgame dungeons are so grueling. They even gave Malroth the Healall spell with unlimited MP, so beating him is pure luck. Not to mention failing to set him up at all. The hero is the only MC in the whole series who can't cast spells, and the equipment available for your teammates is pathetic.
Dq3 is the one that really broke out in popularity and set the framework for the rest of the series (in Japan anyway.)
Dq3 is the one that really broke out in popularity and set the framework for the rest of the series (in Japan anyway.)
newtmonkey
Arcane
I'm with you, I really enjoy the late 80s early 90s JRPGs. I know there are a lot of shameless Dragon Quest ripoffs on the Famicom, but the three 8-bit Final Fantasy games (yes, even—especially—Final Fantasy II), Dragon Warrior II/III, and Mother are all fantastic. The NES/FC ports of Ultima Exodus and Ultima Quest of the Avatar are also very well done (especially Exodus). You also have the beginnings of the Megami Tensei series, and the first Metal Max game.
Nothing beats that moment, though, when you get the ship in Dragon Warrior II just a few hours in and realize the game really is going to give you access to the entire world; it doesn't even really gate you with difficult encounters either, as you should be powerful enough at that point to survive most overland or sea encounters. And unlike most later JRPGs that give you a boat or airship but then restrict your exploration with too-difficult encounters or artificial boundaries, you really are expected in DW2 to just sail around the world gathering information and seeking out powerful artifacts. It feels a lot like playing Ultima IV or V in that respect.
As for discussions of this era of JRPGs, the only place where you find good info was, believe it or not, GAMEFAQS of all places. Most of the forums are dead or locked by now, but there are lots of posts breaking down game mechanics and offering advice for low level runs. The board for Ultima Exodus (NES) especially has a lot of good information.
Twizman
Scholar
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- Oct 24, 2016
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- 137
Yes I love the early Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy and Phantasy Star games! I'm aware the Final Fantasy I board on GFaqs is still quite active with popular mod creators active. Interesting to see there is an editor in development for Ultima: Exodus Remastered. That is surprising if true that Hori said DW2 wasn't playtested, the level of challenge felt good for me throughout with exception of the notorious Cave to Rhone. Legendary dungeon!
deuxhero
Arcane
Playing Final Fantasy V with the custom class mod. I forgot how even the random encounters can be deadly early on in this game (I remembered the bosses being that way, but not random fights). Everything is kill or be killed, no grindy slogs of healing per round vs. damage per round (in-fact, outside of blue magic's White Wind, healing rarely outpaces damage and when it does the MP cost is massive) but rather a contest of seeing how quickly you can end your enemy while maintaining enough defense to survive.
Ebonsword
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2008
- Messages
- 2,424
I tried playing Demon Gaze myself earlier in the year. Gave up on it because of the grinding. It's one of the things that I hate the most in JRPGs. You have a party capable of obliterating the typical monsters found in a given area, but then you get to the area boss and they obliterate you. So then you have to monotonously grind trash encounters for hours in order to level up/buy better gear so you can defeat the boss and start the tedious cycle all over again.
I recently gave up on Hyperdimension Neptunia Rebirth for the same reason.
Removal
Scholar
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2017
- Messages
- 219
Blew through Ys 1 in a day, was top tier fun and straight forward. Game doesn't outstay its welcome in terms of length and the bump combat is surprisingly fun. Dark Fact(final boss) was a huge pain in the ass though, pretty sure I beat him by randomness more than anything else. Only weird thing is the level limit that you'll probably hit somewhere in the 2nd dungeon
Phantasy Star I found too easy. Not a single eneny is challenging in the whole game. Although I liked everything else. I thought the game design and various clues were very well done, never too obscure.
Phantasy Star II is harder but really not hard. The only real difficulty is figuring out the layout of those complex dungeons. The sci-fi elements are more developed and the world building is better as well.
The one area where the game fails majorly is in the second half of the game that is literally nothing but filler. Go through those four dams with annoying design that all look the same. Then go through those four hidden dungeons with annoying design on Devo that also ask look the same. Plus the worst is that there is nothing to do on Devo. Absolutely nothing! I really don't understand what they were thinking, even the first Phantasy Star had puzzles, quests and a more developed Devo. A colossal disappointment. Most probably the second half is nothing but filler because they ran out of time. Although the game is still good.
I skipped PS3.
PS4 is a major shock. It was clearly, clearly inspired by Lunar Silver Star. It's Lunar, Phantasy Star edition. It's a major shock. I knew that the first two games had zero development, but within the first hour you "acquire" information from a village chieftain about the main heroine's bra size and then he gets hit by her... yikes.
Although all in all the game is not bad, and the enemies in most places are actually difficult and can kill your weakest characters quickly. I'm also disappointed by those ridiculous, tiny dungeons.
It was also clearly a prototype for Skies of Arcadia. Although SoA was clearly better.
I also think it's not the same thing at all without the chiptune melodies from the composer of the first two games.
Phantasy Star II is harder but really not hard. The only real difficulty is figuring out the layout of those complex dungeons. The sci-fi elements are more developed and the world building is better as well.
The one area where the game fails majorly is in the second half of the game that is literally nothing but filler. Go through those four dams with annoying design that all look the same. Then go through those four hidden dungeons with annoying design on Devo that also ask look the same. Plus the worst is that there is nothing to do on Devo. Absolutely nothing! I really don't understand what they were thinking, even the first Phantasy Star had puzzles, quests and a more developed Devo. A colossal disappointment. Most probably the second half is nothing but filler because they ran out of time. Although the game is still good.
I skipped PS3.
PS4 is a major shock. It was clearly, clearly inspired by Lunar Silver Star. It's Lunar, Phantasy Star edition. It's a major shock. I knew that the first two games had zero development, but within the first hour you "acquire" information from a village chieftain about the main heroine's bra size and then he gets hit by her... yikes.
Although all in all the game is not bad, and the enemies in most places are actually difficult and can kill your weakest characters quickly. I'm also disappointed by those ridiculous, tiny dungeons.
It was also clearly a prototype for Skies of Arcadia. Although SoA was clearly better.
I also think it's not the same thing at all without the chiptune melodies from the composer of the first two games.
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MpuMngwana
Arbiter
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2016
- Messages
- 342
Finished Devil Survivor Overclocked. It's gud. I'm not crazy about the human character design, but the plot is interesting enough and the gameplay is great (though I'm not sure how I feel about the complete lack of equipment and consumables). The challenge level felt pretty alright most of the time, especially given how squishy most bosses are - in fact, some of them felt a bit too squishy, going down to a couple rounds of concentrated fire. One exception to this is an exceedingly annoying boss fight halfway through the game - he can only be damaged by a specific move, usable by main character only, and has a couple of ways to restore HP during the fight. The game also doesn't overstay its welcome, lasting around 25-30 hours; its modest length makes it likely for me to return to it in the future and check out the other endings.
Finally, a shoutout to the super catchy and comfy overworld theme:
Finally, a shoutout to the super catchy and comfy overworld theme:
Siveon
Bot
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2013
- Messages
- 4,510
Dark Fact is a cheap son of a bitch and my god will I never forgive Falcom for it
But then I immediately jumped to Ys 2 and that shit was the fucking jam.
Puukko
Arcane
A few hours into Baten Kaitos, this game seems very promising. Beautiful prerendered areas, good music, unique card based battle system. Also seems to have a good difficulty level - I don't need every game to be a hell crawl, but whenever I get into these 5th/6th gen RPGs, I can't help but worry that they'll be too easy and thus fail to be as engaging as they could be.
This is an interesting specimen as it was developed by both tri-ace (Star Ocean/Valkyrie Profile) and Monolith (Xeno series). I haven't played those first two series - VP is on my list but the combat will require some adjustment. I like TB combat with RT elements which this has and there's a lot of potential depth to it with 1000 unique cards and a lot of combos. The biggest pitfall so far is that it picks random cards from your deck regardless of whether you're attacking or defending (the RT part of the combat, as you need to quickly choose the right defensive cards to use) which means it is entirely possible to get 4 cards that perform the wrong function and are thus useless for that turn. The depth comes from using cards of specific value in order, or specific types to create combos, and using correct elemental cards when defending. I can't claim to have anything more than the most rudimentary knowledge of it yet though.
The plot is in its baby shoes so far but to my understanding it should have apocalyptic themes and political intrigue which is right up my alley. The protag is also surprisingly grounded and with... loose morals (looting fresh corpses when their friend hasn't even had time to begin mourning) which is a nice change of pace from mute protags and goody two-shoes.
The dub is universally considered bad so picking the undub was a no brainer, though it had some issues with syncing where the audio and character would be mismatched. Hope that was a one-off. Annoyingly, photo cards of enemies are buggy and prone to crashing Dolphin, yet you need to loot and sell them for cash. They also went with the stylistic choice of having dialogue have a tinny and distant quality to it (you technically play from the perspective of an immaterial spirit)... it does not work and just makes you think the audio quality is low or that it's an emulation issue.
Edit: got that wrong, it's tri-Crescendo, made Eternal Sonata and such.
This is an interesting specimen as it was developed by both tri-ace (Star Ocean/Valkyrie Profile) and Monolith (Xeno series). I haven't played those first two series - VP is on my list but the combat will require some adjustment. I like TB combat with RT elements which this has and there's a lot of potential depth to it with 1000 unique cards and a lot of combos. The biggest pitfall so far is that it picks random cards from your deck regardless of whether you're attacking or defending (the RT part of the combat, as you need to quickly choose the right defensive cards to use) which means it is entirely possible to get 4 cards that perform the wrong function and are thus useless for that turn. The depth comes from using cards of specific value in order, or specific types to create combos, and using correct elemental cards when defending. I can't claim to have anything more than the most rudimentary knowledge of it yet though.
The plot is in its baby shoes so far but to my understanding it should have apocalyptic themes and political intrigue which is right up my alley. The protag is also surprisingly grounded and with... loose morals (looting fresh corpses when their friend hasn't even had time to begin mourning) which is a nice change of pace from mute protags and goody two-shoes.
The dub is universally considered bad so picking the undub was a no brainer, though it had some issues with syncing where the audio and character would be mismatched. Hope that was a one-off. Annoyingly, photo cards of enemies are buggy and prone to crashing Dolphin, yet you need to loot and sell them for cash. They also went with the stylistic choice of having dialogue have a tinny and distant quality to it (you technically play from the perspective of an immaterial spirit)... it does not work and just makes you think the audio quality is low or that it's an emulation issue.
Edit: got that wrong, it's tri-Crescendo, made Eternal Sonata and such.
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lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,564
I dunno if it counts but...
The Mario (J)rpgs are surprisingly fun and rarely suffer from the cringe and edgy teenager character that plagues most JRPGs. Would the Codex consider them good as well? The Mario & Luigi series was quite entertaining, I remember having a fun time with the first one.
The Mario (J)rpgs are surprisingly fun and rarely suffer from the cringe and edgy teenager character that plagues most JRPGs. Would the Codex consider them good as well? The Mario & Luigi series was quite entertaining, I remember having a fun time with the first one.
Puukko
Arcane
I watched Paper Mario glitch and Google translation videos for the dumb fun, but I have never really considered playing any of the Mario RPGs. I don't really have as much of an issue with edgy protagonists (might be I just don't really play games that have them anyway) but I really don't like mute ones, they're a waste of potential.
Siveon
Bot
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2013
- Messages
- 4,510
Paper Mario N64, Thousand Year Door and Super Paper Mario are fantastic games. Sure they're on the easy size but the pacing is a breath of fresh air compared to a lot of JRPGs. Super Paper Mario not really being a traditional JRPG, it's more like a platformer ARPG thing. But to me they're great.
Superstar Saga and Bowser's Inside Story are also pretty damn good on their own right. Brothers in Time and Dream Team I have mixed impressions on but they too have their fans. Shame about the company closing down, but when they tried to do inferior remakes after Dream Team didn't do so hot - it pretty much sealed their deal and for some reason Ninty wasn't going to bail them out.
I don't really care about Paper Mario games after Super Paper Mario, although I also know there are people that like the Wii-U and Switch game.
Reality
Learned
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2019
- Messages
- 391
I don't want to spoil Baten Kaitos -- You might enjoy the plot or you might think it's too much -- Mechanically I think the game is too easy until disc 2 - Sometime when you get there the meachanics change so all your Cards have 4 numbers (1 on each side) so you can't just dumbly make your own deck with all complementary numbers and have to think on the fly to make things work together.
Part of me wishes that this game dumped all the mechanics on you at once instead of gradually giving you things 1 story arc at a time because it might rescue the game from it's Beatstick+Healer approach.
Part of me wishes that this game dumped all the mechanics on you at once instead of gradually giving you things 1 story arc at a time because it might rescue the game from it's Beatstick+Healer approach.
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