PST before Fallout

[luj1]

PST is mostly about dialog, spiced with combats; quite the reverse.

Common myth by people who never played it

 

[vota DC]

Boring topic, but the title was interesting: what if Pst was before Fallout? We already have standard and low intelligence dialogue in Fallout, I think with PST before we would have even more complex dialogue but maybe no talking heads.

 

[Glop_dweller]

Yeah, but the combat is decidedly basic and not very tactical.

It's basic if all the player does is pick a target and attack it until it's dead, but that's true of any game I'd think. Do people actually play it like that?

Common myth by people who never played it

I own three copies of it; two of them are retail CD sets. I've played it plenty, and through to the end; that's why I described it as such, and as a better RPG than Fallout (which I also own on retail CD and have played through many times).
_______


So the topic is interpreted as "came before? (created before Fallout)" ?

Well Then I'd think it could have been more like Stonekeep, and with lots of FMV.

 

[curds]

It's basic if all the player does is pick a target and attack it until it's dead, but that's true of any game I'd think. Do people actually play it like that?

So what combat options does Fallout have, aside from move, attack, use item?

There's no crouch/prone, opportunity attacks, trip, grapple, status effects such as greased/slippery floors, sleep or knocked out effects, etc.

 

[Ol' Willy]

sleep or knocked out effects, etc.

Kek
Fallout has unconscious and knockdown effects in combat

 

[curds]

sleep or knocked out effects, etc.

Kek
Fallout has unconscious and knockdown effects in combat

My mistake. Thanks for pointing that out.

Doesn't change my argument that Fallout combat is simple and not tactical.

 

[Glop_dweller]

Not only knockdowns, and unconscious, but multiple kinds of attack (some that can strike more than one enemy), the option to spend APs interacting with the fallen opponent—like stealing from them, planting explosives, or even unloading their guns.

Also for every AP you choose not to spend during the turn, the PC's defense potential goes up in the form of bonus armorclass (2 to 1) given at the end of their turn; which can mean not attacking twice to have a better chance of defense from the added AC.

Additionally, there can be interaction with the environment—like shutting a door for cover, or choosing to administer healing meds to other party members; including Dogmeat, who can't heal himself in combat.

If you attack first and are actively sneaking, then killing the opponent during your turn does not initiate a hostile response; (because nobody noticed it happen).

*Of course it should go without saying, that targeted shots can cripple legs for reduced movement per turn; cripple one arm to affect their aim, and they cannot use two handed weapons... cripple both, and they cannot use weapons. Shoot the eyes to blind them. Also some criticals inflict instant death to certain enemies (including humans).

Definitely shoot the legs of a melee fighter; they will likely have no APs left after closing the distance; hit them with knockbacks, or step back a bit, and they will have more distance to close. In the very least their higher damage attack might be beyond their available APs for the rest of the fight. The PC could even run from them while shooting at others.

**In Fallout 2, the player can even spend party member APs during their PC's turn; by moving them out of harm's way—via the push option. This can remove them from area effect weapons like rockets & grenades, that the PC plans to use... or just put a few steps between them and a melee opponent—costing the opponent more APs to close in on their turn.

 

[Casual Hero]

Based Panda.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Not only knockdowns,

And more:

- using chems to buff your stats: Buffout for STR and END, Jet for AP and Psycho for DR
- considering your opponent DRs to deal more damage. People in metal armour have high DR for laser, so, if you can't reliable deal crits don't even bother with laser. Floaters have high DR for pulse weapons. Robots are very susceptible for pulse grenades.
- stealth. Stealth is useful for dispatching enemies in small groups instead of aggravating the entire bunch. Possible stealth kills in one turn.
- using environment to break the line of sight and force enemy to spend his AP on closing in.

And many more, including tricks with lining up enemies in front of burst firing one to incite friendly fire

 

[barghwata]

Common myth by people who never played it

I own three copies of it; two of them are retail CD sets. I've played it plenty, and through to the end; that's why I described it as such, and as a better RPG than Fallout (which I also own on retail CD and have played through many times).

I am actually playing it right now..... and there definitely IS alot of combat, it's just that it's so easy and mindless that you forget about it because it doesn't feel like real combat.

 

[TemplarGR]

This a site full of tryhards.
"Am i prestigious? Look! LOOK WHAT I'M DOING!"
And then 300 hours of Skyrim and Kingmaker on their Steam accounts.
God are y'all gay.

Only 300 hours of Skyrim is indeed decline. Proper monocled Codexers have more than 1000 hours of Skyrim in their accounts.

 

[overly excitable young man]

You realized that you are the average codexer, Templar?
This place is like made for you.

 

[TemplarGR]

DotA2 has better character building, itemisation and combat than any RPG game
Compared to other genres, there's no reason to play RPGs unless you're after exploration, setting immersion, and writing.

This is actually correct. RPGs in terms of gameplay, suck, compared to every single other genre. What RPGs bring to the table is immersion, mainly. Every other aspect of RPGs can be made better in other genres:

Want story and C&C? How about adventure games and visual novels, faggot? They are better than most RPGs, in fact, the best "RPGs" in this area are covert adventure games, like Planecape and Disco Shitisium.

Want tactics? How about a proper strategy game, like Xcom, Jagged Alliance 2, or Silent Storm?

Want exploration and fine vistas to explore? How about action adventure games like Assassin's Creed?

Want action RPGs? How about playing actual action and first person shooter games instead?

The truth is, RPGs only bring immersion. RPGs are the biggest chameleon on the market, they are essentially a spineless organism without a single morph. RPGs can be anything, they adopt from every other genre gameplay styles in order to bring immersion.

Which is why immersion is the most important thing. Which is why the vast majority of shit Codexers revere, are GARBAGE RPGs because they aren't immersive in 2020. Skyrim is immersive, Fallout 4 is immersive. Cuckmaker is NOT immersive, Fallout 1 is NOT immersive anymore. They are worse RPGs as a result.

 

[TemplarGR]

Fallout is almost entirely combat, spiced with a few important NPC conversations; damn good ones mostly. On the flipside, PST is mostly about dialog, spiced with combats; quite the reverse.

Yes, which is why Fallout is a badly designed game. It is almost entirely combat, but that combat is shit. There are no tactics involved. The only "tactics" is to pick what weapon you want to shoot with, and arrange the priority of who to shoot first and if you want to target their groin or eyes for more critical damage. Oh and you can also use burst mode if you have the ammo. That's about it. Only 1 skill is relevant for 90% of combat, small guns, and you only really need to increase it to around 100%. Other than that, just steal guns and put on the best armor which is 1 item piece only, and you are essentially God mode and going through the motions of waiting for every kid in the area to stop masturbating between turns so you can finish combat and go on trying to find the few C&C stuff that game has.

In short, Fallout has combat, and lots of its, but it is not a combat game because people don't play it for the combat. The combat is there so the game can last more than 30 minutes start to finish.

 

[overly excitable young man]

This was such a high quality thread and then you showed up. LOL

 

[TemplarGR]

And more:

- using chems to buff your stats: Buffout for STR and END, Jet for AP and Psycho for DR
- considering your opponent DRs to deal more damage. People in metal armour have high DR for laser, so, if you can't reliable deal crits don't even bother with laser. Floaters have high DR for pulse weapons. Robots are very susceptible for pulse grenades.
- stealth. Stealth is useful for dispatching enemies in small groups instead of aggravating the entire bunch. Possible stealth kills in one turn.
- using environment to break the line of sight and force enemy to spend his AP on closing in.

And many more, including tricks with lining up enemies in front of burst firing one to incite friendly fire

You people sound desperate. Even the original monochrome Pokemon had more combat options than Fallout. For fuck sake.

 

[TemplarGR]

This was such a high quality thread and then you showed up. LOL

That's why i signed up on the Codex. To spoil your fun.

 

[urmom]

TBH combatfags are a joke because they are playing tactics against AI, now try playing dota2, a real tactical fantasy game, and see how hard ur noob a$$ gets rekt

We are all just pieces in a heavenly DOTA match.

 

[Glop_dweller]

Yes, which is why Fallout is a badly designed game. It is almost entirely combat, but that combat is shit. There are no tactics involved.

I disagree; Fallout is the better game (as I said); better mechanics—story quality does not affect game quality. Mechanics trump all. Bad mechanics make a game unplayable regardless of interest in the story.

I am actually playing it right now..... and there definitely IS alot of combat, it's just that it's so easy and mindless that you forget about it because it doesn't feel like real combat.

More combat than Fallout? Relative to the amount of text? Planescape allows "level-up over lunch", where your party is just standing around having a discussion—which is GOOD, sure. But most of the gameplay hinges on conversations; some quite massive.

 

[Ol' Willy]

The only "tactics" is to pick what weapon you want to shoot with, and arrange the priority of who to shoot first and if you want to target their groin or eyes for more critical damage. Oh and you can also use burst mode if you have the ammo. That's about it. Only 1 skill is relevant for 90% of combat, small guns, and you only really need to increase it to around 100%.

In Fallout 1 Small Guns is your bread and butter during the first half of the game, but as soon as you start to encounter some nasty dudes with high DT, DR and tons of health (Supermuties, Deathclaws, etc) they lose a lot of relevancy. Sniper Rifle deals acceptable damage, but it cost one more AP to shoot it, so you need at least two ranks of Action Boy to shoot it twice... Of course, there's Sniper and Better Criticals perks in F1, so SMG/Assault rifle/Auto-Shotgun Madman builds are possible, but this requires some deliberate build decisions. Having Power Armour you still can tank a lot of damage, but fights become too slow and enemies still can fuck you up for good with crits. So, in the latter game it is wise to switch to heavy or energy weapons, with latter having the best stuff in the game, TurboPlasma and Laser rifles. Mariposa and Cathedral could be finished without any gun skills at all: either a good Sneaking skill or using Robe to pass as cultist.

In Fallout 2 Small Guns stay relevant till the end with the wonderful Gauss Rifle/Pistol, but they don't come until San-Francisco. Basegame is kinda buggy, and it's easy to steal Gauss Rifle and lot of ammo from vagrants and city traders, but Restoration Project cuts this generosity off.

It goes without saying that various Small Guns builds require some decisions right at the chargen. Snipers will need high PER and high AG, tagging Small Guns is necessary to overmax it to 125-150%. High LU is not necessary due to aimed shots bonuses, but is very handy: with Finesse and LU of 10 you will have 20% for crits from the start, but with the setback of -30% to all your damage. Full-auto builds require high AG and Fast Shot to shoot two burst per turn, more STR to carry lots of ammo and more LU to crit more. High PER is not needed and lack of sequence can be compensated with Kamikaze trait (AC is kinda weak anyway); Finesse is good for crits, but once again gives you damage penalties.

 

[Doktor Best]

Fuck you to everyone who slightly disagrees with me occasionally. Your taste is worse than mine.






Am i doing this right?

 

[overly excitable young man]

2015 and you sound like a fucking newfag

 

[TemplarGR]

In Fallout 1 Small Guns is your bread and butter during the first half of the game, but as soon as you start to encounter some nasty dudes with high DT, DR and tons of health (Supermuties, Deathclaws, etc) they lose a lot of relevancy. Sniper Rifle deals acceptable damage, but it cost one more AP to shoot it, so you need at least two ranks of Action Boy to shoot it twice... Of course, there's Sniper and Better Criticals perks in F1, so SMG/Assault rifle/Auto-Shotgun Madman builds are possible, but this requires some deliberate build decisions. Having Power Armour you still can tank a lot of damage, but fights become too slow and enemies still can fuck you up for good with crits. So, in the latter game it is wise to switch to heavy or energy weapons, with latter having the best stuff in the game, TurboPlasma and Laser rifles. Mariposa and Cathedral could be finished without any gun skills at all: either a good Sneaking skill or using Robe to pass as cultist.

In Fallout 2 Small Guns stay relevant till the end with the wonderful Gauss Rifle/Pistol, but they don't come until San-Francisco. Basegame is kinda buggy, and it's easy to steal Gauss Rifle and lot of ammo from vagrants and city traders, but Restoration Project cuts this generosity off.

It goes without saying that various Small Guns builds require some decisions right at the chargen. Snipers will need high PER and high AG, tagging Small Guns is necessary to overmax it to 125-150%. High LU is not necessary due to aimed shots bonuses, but is very handy: with Finesse and LU of 10 you will have 20% for crits from the start, but with the setback of -30% to all your damage. Full-auto builds require high AG and Fast Shot to shoot two burst per turn, more STR to carry lots of ammo and more LU to crit more. High PER is not needed and lack of sequence can be compensated with Kamikaze trait (AC is kinda weak anyway); Finesse is good for crits, but once again gives you damage penalties.

Dude, what the actual fuck you are saying?

1) Small guns is relevant for 100% of both Fallout 1 and 2. You don't need energy or big guns at all. You have burst mode and aim mode for all your high damage needs. If you wear power armor, you just get point blank range and spam burst on enemies, they are insta-killed most of the time because they eat all the bullets. You alternate between sniper + aim and burst + point blank range and you are fine, the power armor means you just occasionally have to use a stimpack. That's all you do, that's how i completed the games multiple times, i only occasionally used big guns and energy guns for variaty, just for the lulz, i didn't need to for gameplay reasons. I suppose in Fallout 2 sometimes i liked using the Bozar point blank, but that was very late game. Big guns and energy guns were a big waste of time apart from some boss encounters. And most of the time you need to use big or energy guns, you can just use them point blank, and then your skill with the weapon barely matters for aim percentages.

2) In Fallout 1 and 2, the only things that are really relevant are your hit points and your equipment, mainly your armor. You might as well disregard everything else. You just need moar levels to make those hit points go higher, and grab some power armor, then the game is essentially a boring EZ mode. Your skills and perks and SPECIAL barely matter, they are mostly fluff. All you need is hit points, AC, DR, and a good gun and enough ammo.

3) As for status effects and shit, Pokemon has more status effects than Fallout. Fallout has knockdown, , irradiated, limped, poisoned, and what else? Pokemon first generation has burned, confused, poisoned, sleep, paralyzed, bound, cursed, etc. If i missed something, some pokefag my complete the list, i haven't played pokeman in decades. Want to compare how many moves Pokeman have over Fallout which is mainly point and shoot? Fallout doesn't even have magic, Pokeman have what, 150 or more different moves? Tons of different elemental effects, strengths and weaknesses? Give me a break, Fallout when compared to Pokeman on the original Game Boy is like baby's first RPG. Seriously. Pokeman has far more tactics involved.

 

[Serus]

It's basic if all the player does is pick a target and attack it until it's dead, but that's true of any game I'd think...

I felt a great disturbance in the Force Codex as if millions of voices brain cells suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

Edit: to think about it, many posts in this thread causes such disturbance.

 

[Zer0wing]

As good as Planescape story is, I finished it only once. Combat is just too awful.

No idea where did you get that, combatgameplay in general in PS:T is more refined than in fag-ass Baldur's Gate 1 which I never bother to finish because of shitty it is. It's encounter design that sucks donkey balls, and this is courtesy of CMcC

Only 300 hours of Skyrim is indeed decline. Proper monocled Codexers have more than 1000 hours of Skyrim in their accounts.

Time spent on LoversLab and in Mod Organizer to set LL mods up in non-conflicting fasion counts in or out?