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Decline PS4 wins the console war against XboxONE, yet it is a hollow victory as Consolesdämmerung is upon us

sea

inXile Entertainment
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I doubt it. Maybe for your typical office productivity tasks, although I question the advantage of such a contraption over a plain laptop (which also provides superior performance for the same price), and on a technical level, I don't really believe in the universal robustness of wireless screens, but that's a separate problem. For gaming, though, which thus far has always demanded high performance hardware, a box in a case with active cooling and a power draw of 200+ Watts will always beat a mobile device, that's just the physics of silicon, and I don't expect this to change with different materials either. Bottom line, doing more work produces more heat and draws more power.

It's an open question whether the box will be a closed, fixed-hardware console, or a modular architecture similar to present day PCs, but I doubt it will go away unless the graphics arms race stops completely.
Not going far enough ahead. Today's computers, for anything other than gaming, video editing and mass productivity work (like protein folding simulations), are so fast that for any standard task they are well, well in excess of its requirements by order of tens of thousands. In 20 years, or 30, do you really think most personal computers as we know them, even for professionals, are going to resemble the same old boxes and motherboard designs we know now? How do you know all that power we now value won't be in those days taken completely for granted?

What sorts of tasks do you regularly do that you even need a high-end system for, other than gaming (which has already well reached the point of diminishing returns with respect to image quality vs. cost and will only get worse as time goes on)? Even if there are some you do with reasonable regularity, what's stopping you from, say, renting a day on a server and getting those computers to do it for you?

The problem is that it's far too easy for American consumers to get into Canada and exploit the local markets for their personal gain, which leads to stuff like this happening. 97% of Canadians would support a total and permanent closure of their southern border.
I think it's just Sony taking advantage of their limited PS4 quantity.
 

tuluse

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I don't know sea your arguments sort of sound like someone in the 50s or 60s saying that in the future there would be no more car mods or custom built cars because the standard car would be so fast no one would need to mod it and that you'd be able to order any configuration you want straight from the factory.

Well today, you can buy a boring family sedan that makes 300 horsepower, and is faster than many a stock muscle car from the 60s, yet car mods still exist and are a healthy market.
 

Cowboy Moment

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Not going far enough ahead. Today's computers, for anything other than gaming, video editing and mass productivity work (like protein folding simulations), are so fast that for any standard task they are well, well in excess of its requirements by order of tens of thousands. In 20 years, or 30, do you really think most personal computers as we know them, even for professionals, are going to resemble the same old boxes and motherboard designs we know now? How do you know all that power we now value won't be in those days taken completely for granted?

What sorts of tasks do you regularly do that you even need a high-end system for, other than gaming (which has already well reached the point of diminishing returns with respect to image quality vs. cost and will only get worse as time goes on)? Even if there are some you do with reasonable regularity, what's stopping you from, say, renting a day on a server and getting those computers to do it for you?

You really don't want to use me as an example here, bro. I run out of memory on a 16 GB RAM desktop on a regular basis, by doing nothing but loading a bunch of data into memory to run tests that I can't be bothered to rewrite to run out-of-core.

That aside, you have a very naive view of how software development follows advances in hardware. People always think "There's no way anyone would need more than X Megabytes of RAM.", and are consistently proven wrong. There's a quote, I think it's from Silberschatz and Gavin, not absolutely sure, some book on operating system design for college students in any case, which goes roughly like "An increase in available system memory has no observable effects except for the increase in average application memory usage." - and that's how it's always been. You'd think 4GBs of RAM would be enough for someone working mostly with Office, a web browser, and some specialized qualitative data analysis software, right? Well, my colleagues at work consistently manage to choke their laptops by having a zillion documents, spreadsheets, outlook windows and browser tabs open.

An increase in hardware capability is followed by software adding more features, improving user experience (browser is more responsive because it now keeps everything in memory instead of caching some of it to disk), improving time-to-market by using tools which result in less-optimized code that is easier and faster to write (as we can see with the rise in popularity of dynamic, high-level languages like Python or Ruby). You can argue that this will eventually stop, but that is, again, a naive view. It's like a XIXth century politician thinking how everyone will be happy once they gain the luxury of hot running water. Expectations and needs grow as they are fulfilled.

I can believe that desktop computers will someday become obsolete, but at that point, we may as well all have chips implanted in our bodies, running off naturally generated heat. I certainly wouldn't expect it within the next ~50 years. Especially with VR on the horizon, that tech needs a ton of local processing power to work, so if anything, we'll see more boxes rather than less in the near future.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
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You're conflating processing power with memory use. Not the same thing.
 

Jarpie

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I don't think that the contemporary computer will go away anytime soon, the market for custom made computers and different manufacturers is too big. 20 years? I don't think so but 40-50 years is so far into the future that it's impossible for anyone to say what will happen.
 

Servo

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Cowboy Moment

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You're conflating processing power with memory use. Not the same thing.

I don't think you can even apply that argument to processing power, given that single-thread cpu performance hasn't followed Moore's Law for some time now - increases in performance per watt have been fairly minimal for Intel since Sandy Bridge. Amusingly, it's GPUs that are seeing huge improvements in FLOPS per watt, but those are only really useful for gaming if you're not a technical user. If your argument is that we'll soon have 5 W mobile chips with the performance of a Haswell i7, then, well, current tends in CPU architecture development do not support that at all.

I used memory for the purpose of my argument because it's very easy to quantify and still roughly follows Moore's Law. Besides, modern software seems to be keeping up on the cpu front just fine - even if you take a web browser, there are already websites out there that run like shit on my overlocked i5 3570K because someone went overboard with client-side scripting and Flash.
 
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jcd

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Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
7,817
It's easily 80+ minutes if you 100% it. And the increased price is due to next gen graphics.
 

Servo

Arcane
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,479
Location
1988
At least "Ground Zeroes" actually makes sense gramatically, because there can be several locations designated "Ground Zero" in the game.

OTOH there is no excuse for "Thi4f."

"Demon's Souls" is pretty horrible but not a stealth game.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
24,110
Not going far enough ahead. Today's computers, for anything other than gaming, video editing and mass productivity work (like protein folding simulations), are so fast that for any standard task they are well, well in excess of its requirements by order of tens of thousands. In 20 years, or 30, do you really think most personal computers as we know them, even for professionals, are going to resemble the same old boxes and motherboard designs we know now? How do you know all that power we now value won't be in those days taken completely for granted?

What sorts of tasks do you regularly do that you even need a high-end system for, other than gaming (which has already well reached the point of diminishing returns with respect to image quality vs. cost and will only get worse as time goes on)? Even if there are some you do with reasonable regularity, what's stopping you from, say, renting a day on a server and getting those computers to do it for you?
Code:
228559 ns
This is output of a certain problem solver, I use for testing CPU speed. As you can see, it's 228000 ns on my CPU on base frequency. (with turbo dissabled) I doubt I'd have enough CPU power for my freeware games until I'd get 12+ core Skylake-E.

The funny thing is large games are running into same problems I was running 5 years ago. Current 4 core CPUs are starting to feel limits when they are not overclocked. (Of course theirs problems are they are using LUA, which worsens the situation by quite a bit. Reason 1. LUA is slow and isn't inlined with the rest of the code. Reason 2. people who are using LUA are less competent/less careful and the code is much slower because of that.)
 

Echo Mirage

Arcane
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
1,611
Location
Tirra Lirra by the River
Ground Zeroes would have gone over much easier as a paid prologue if The phantom pain was only few weeks or months away. But charging £20 for a prologue to a game that at best is a year away ?. A bad move, For me and my wallet.

Either way, I'm going to wait until there is news on the inevitable PC release. By then Both games will come bundled together on steam I expect.
 

WhiteGuts

Arcane
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
2,382
Sony's VR stuff.

BjDZjEiIYAAtw_L.jpg
 
Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
7,817
Peace, people. Wikipedia confirms that you're both right.

Ground Zeroes will stand alone as the first part to Metal Gear Solid V, acting as the prologue for the upcoming Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain.

The game was originally set to be released alongside The Phantom Pain but long development time resulted in director Hideo Kojima splitting the project in two parts so that players will get an early access to Metal Gear Solid V.
 

Night Goat

The Immovable Autism
Patron
No Fun Allowed
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Messages
1,865,455
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[redacted]
Codex 2013 Codex 2014
Ground Zeroes will stand alone as the first part to Metal Gear Solid V, acting as the prologue for the upcoming Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain.

The game was originally set to be released alongside The Phantom Pain but long development time resulted in director Hideo Kojima splitting the project in two parts for maximum jewgoldz.
Fix'd
 

Xor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
9,345
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
It's fun when wikipedia contradicts itself within the same sentence.
 

ghostdog

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
11,159
So MGSV is hopefully going to resume the tradition of a good mgs game before/after a shitty one ?

Meh, I'm not sure I even care.
 

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