Fallout (((POLL))) Fallout - An Entire Series Retrospective and Analysis

[rusty_shackleford]

So what?

The difference between a rendering time budget of 16 milliseconds and 16 weeks.

 

[Glop_dweller]

BoguS. The heads were digitized from hand sculpted clay; Bethesda wouldn't have had to do that.

...And they needn't have shared the conversation screen with live/rendered geometry save for the figure head.

 

[Okagron]

And I also agree with his reasoning that Bethesda trying to be too faithful to the original games is causing more harm than good to their games.

Or they just used Super Mutants, BoS, Enclave and other stuff from the first two games to have recognizeable stuff in their game and not have to come up with new stuff, because coming up with new stuff requires context, lore and other stuff. Where do all these things come from? From the first two games, don't need to write any lore or background for them. And if you do, you just come with an extremely nonsensical, brief reasoning for it (like Vault-Tec, a company that had no access to FEV, somehow making Super Mutants with FEV).

But Fallout 4 proved that Bethesda doesn't know how to come up with new stuff either. Stuff like the Institute and Minutemen are easily some of the worst factions to ever grace this franchise.

 

[Glop_dweller]

Ultimate 'Me-Too' marketing—"See ours is a Fallout game too... it has caps, it has BOS, Enclave, Super Mutants, FEV, Jet, Ghouls... see?".

 

[hpstg]

Meh, nothing has gotten the vibe of the first game. I also prefer New Vegas to Fallout 2, to be honest.

 

[Yosharian]

Meh, nothing has gotten the vibe of the first game. I also prefer New Vegas to Fallout 2, to be honest.

If only New Vegas' engine wasn't so shit, I could stand to play through it a few more times

 

[hpstg]

True. New Vegas in the F1 engine would be interesting, to say the least.

 

[DalekFlay]

True. New Vegas in the F1 engine would be interesting, to say the least.

I made a thread forever ago about how well New Vegas would translate to the F1 style and engine. It would be a ridiculous project no one would ever do of course, but I think it's fun to theorize about.

While Bethesda's engine is clunky and flawed I honestly have never had a major problem with it. The animations and NPC movement are probably the biggest things that bother me about it, as they're very stilted and unnatural. Just for basic graphics though I think it looks just fine for the types of games it's used for. The main crux of their games is wandering around the open country looking for shit, and they perform that task well. Also if they ever did change engines I guarantee you those modding tools would vanish.

 

[Yosharian]

True. New Vegas in the F1 engine would be interesting, to say the least.

I made a thread forever ago about how well New Vegas would translate to the F1 style and engine. It would be a ridiculous project no one would ever do of course, but I think it's fun to theorize about.

While Bethesda's engine is clunky and flawed I honestly have never had a major problem with it. The animations and NPC movement are probably the biggest things that bother me about it, as they're very stilted and unnatural. Just for basic graphics though I think it looks just fine for the types of games it's used for. The main crux of their games is wandering around the open country looking for shit, and they perform that task well. Also if they ever did change engines I guarantee you those modding tools would vanish.

Fallout 4's engine isn't so bad. It's not amazing, either, but mechanically, it's a huge improvement over what FONV uses.

 

[Black Angel]

Fallout 4's engine isn't so bad. It's not amazing, either, but mechanically, it's a huge improvement over what FONV uses.

How? The game doesn't have a working skill system in place, it has to be modded in and I don't know if it has been properly integrated into the game's system now. The perk system dumbed down the RPG mechanics down to worse than oblivion, the dialog system is so awful, and worse of all they're hardcoded which actually discouraged most modders from even considering of modding this game.

If by huge improvement, you mean shooting mechanics then yeah I guess you can call it huge improvement, and even that isn't solely Bethesda learning to do it by themselves but they actually got help from id Software.

 

[DalekFlay]

How? The game doesn't have a working skill system in place, it has to be modded in and I don't know if it has been properly integrated into the game's system now. The perk system dumbed down the RPG mechanics down to worse than oblivion, the dialog system is so awful, and worse of all they're hardcoded which actually discouraged most modders from even considering of modding this game.

If by huge improvement, you mean shooting mechanics then yeah I guess you can call it huge improvement, and even that isn't solely Bethesda learning to do it by themselves but they actually got help from id Software.

What the fuck do these things have to do with the engine?

 

[Black Angel]

How? The game doesn't have a working skill system in place, it has to be modded in and I don't know if it has been properly integrated into the game's system now. The perk system dumbed down the RPG mechanics down to worse than oblivion, the dialog system is so awful, and worse of all they're hardcoded which actually discouraged most modders from even considering of modding this game.

If by huge improvement, you mean shooting mechanics then yeah I guess you can call it huge improvement, and even that isn't solely Bethesda learning to do it by themselves but they actually got help from id Software.

What the fuck do these things have to do with the engine?

Can you not read? No proper skill system? Dumbed down RPG mechanics in form of awfully simple and underwhelming perk system? Retadred dialog system (and also voice-acting)? Everything to do with the engine, especially since Yosharian specified 'mechanically', and in turn not much fun for modders making quests mods and such.

And one thing I haven't even mentioned, it seems whatever bugs and glitches that modders fixed in previous Bethesda's games, it seems Bethesda brings them all back with every new games. Although, to be precise, this exact thing happened with Fallout 76 and thus it was quite a big buzz since there's no way to fix them like they could with mods for the singleplayer games,. I'd assume this also happened with Fallout 4 but since some modders goes on to fix them almost immediately not much people talk about it, so how the fuck is Fallout 4's engine (((better))) than NV's aside from improved shooting mechanics?

 

[DalekFlay]

Can you not read? No proper skill system? Dumbed down RPG mechanics in form of awfully simple and underwhelming perk system? Retadred dialog system (and also voice-acting)? Everything to do with the engine, especially since Yosharian specified 'mechanically', and in turn not much fun for modders making quests mods and such.

These are all design decisions and not the fault of the engine, but do keep being retarded.

 

[Black Angel]

Can you not read? No proper skill system? Dumbed down RPG mechanics in form of awfully simple and underwhelming perk system? Retadred dialog system (and also voice-acting)? Everything to do with the engine, especially since Yosharian specified 'mechanically', and in turn not much fun for modders making quests mods and such.

These are all design decisions and not the fault of the engine, but do keep being retarded.

Look, Mr. Contrarian Cunt, even if you disagree that the severe lack of some features and the fact that stuff are being deliberately hardcoded into the engine, which factually rendered the engine objectively much worse than its previous iteration, you can't deny the fact that Bethesda didn't fix countless bugs that has been on the engine since Morrowind all the way to Fallout 76 and said with a straight face "Fallout 4's engine is mechanically better than New Vegas!".

Also, instead of being a fucking cunt you usually are, perhaps you can point out stuff to prove that F4's engine is mechanically better than NV's engine, instead of being a contrarian cunt you usually are.

 

[Xeon]

I haven't played a lot of FO4 to comment much on it, from my limited experience it had better performance and when sprinting, it didn't have any hangings or loading because of it. FNV didn't have sprinting iirc but Project Nevada added it and I always used it and when sprinting for long, kinda needed to wait a little for the world to load or something so they kinda improved on that.

I like the shooting in FO4 than it was in FNV but I am not a hardcore shooter player so my taste is kinda simplistic, it just felt better. Kinda agree about the bugs but not sure if that's engine or if its because Beth being lazy.

I could be wrong but didn't the FNV remake on the FO4 engine going to re-add SPECIAL and skills back or am I misremembering.

 

[Krivol]

Any "analysis" that doesn't discard Fallout 4 as irredeemable trash doesn't understand or respect the series enough to be taken seriously.

One time my impostor is right.

 

[hpstg]

[...]even if you disagree that the severe lack of some features and the fact that stuff are being deliberately hardcoded into the engine, which factually rendered the engine objectively much worse than its previous iteration, you can't deny the fact that Bethesda didn't fix countless bugs that has been on the engine since Morrowind all the way to Fallout 76 and said with a straight face "Fallout 4's engine is mechanically better than New Vegas!".

Also, instead of being a fucking cunt you usually are, perhaps you can point out stuff to prove that F4's engine is mechanically better than NV's engine, instead of being a contrarian cunt you usually are.

What is "mechanically better"? Larger pistons?
The Fallout 4 engine is old stuff, but it's surely better than what it was in the Fallout 3 times.
Engines are measured in their render, I/O, audio, physics, etc, performance. In all these aspects, the Fallout 4 engine is better. If you're butthurt that they removed the user - modifiable part of the recoil variable (which was represented as a skill, in game), I regret to inform you that it's a design decision, and it has nothing to do with the engine itself.

In fact, if you add the graphics and the settlement crap, the new iteration is much more capable than the old ones.

Have you ever written a single program in your life?

Why do you make us defend Bethesda in a Fallout thread?

 

[hexer]

Watched the video.
He praises Fallout 1 except for GUI and controls, shits on Fallout 2 blaming it for setting the lighthearted tone seen in later Fallouts,
praises Bethesda's environmental design in Fallout 3 & 4, shits on most other aspects of their games,
praises Obsidian's C&C and themes while criticizing their environmental design.

The conclusion is kinda stupid.. Bethesda should stop doing fanservice games - agree; the recycling and retconning is getting old -
and "look into themselves" to deliver the next true Fallout - disagree ; they already did that when they introduced FPS, giant robots, zeppelins and communities run by brats.
The conclusion should have been - Bethesda doesn't understand what Fallout is, what to do with it and should return the Fallout license to its original creators, in this case Obsidian.

P.S. As a European, I get a feeling only US gamers had/have this BIG issue with Fallout 2's pop-references.
I probably didn't get 90% of the them as a 15-year old EU kid in 1998. so I guess US gamers will always be harsher Fallout 2 critics than anyone else.

 

[Xeon]

Yeah, I never understood the pop culture stuff in any of the old games so for the most part didn't mind them unless if it was too crazy.

 

[Black Angel]

What is "mechanically better"? Larger pistons?

If my interpretation of "mechanically" is wrong, you all could've pointed that out and tell me what you all really mean with the engine being better.

The Fallout 4 engine is old stuff, but it's surely better than what it was in the Fallout 3 times.
Engines are measured in their render, I/O, audio, physics, etc, performance. In all these aspects, the Fallout 4 engine is better. If you're butthurt that they removed the user - modifiable part of the recoil variable (which was represented as a skill, in game), I regret to inform you that it's a design decision, and it has nothing to do with the engine itself.

See, this is what I meant. Instead of being a cunt and goes 'what the fuck does that have to do with yada yada' as a reply to my allegedly dumb post, people like DalekFlay should've done this in the first place. Xeon already did, hence why I didn't even bother posting a follow-up anymore.

Have you ever written a single program in your life?

Nope, hence why my impression of these whole engine topics is limited to my experience with the gameplay and modding them.

Spoiler

Granted, I actually haven't even played Fallout 4 so I wouldn't know how it actually plays compared to New Vegas, I guess it's wrong of me in the first place to question people's testament that the engine is now better. In classic Codex smugness, however, I'll use this opportunity to belittle people who wasted their drive space with the piece of shit known as Fallout 4

I actually want to put this down now, but I have one more thing to ask. I distinctly remember Bethesda literally constantly breaking Fallout 4 with every patches. Does that sounds like deliberate design decision, their ineptitude with their own tech or a flaw that existed in the engine itself?
Did Obsidian also breaks New Vegas when they patched it around post-release?

 

[Butter]

Only Fallout 2 reference that's really obnoxious is the bridge scene ripped verbatim out of Holy Grail.

 

[DalekFlay]

See, this is what I meant. Instead of being a cunt and goes 'what the fuck does that have to do with yada yada' as a reply to my allegedly dumb post, people like DalekFlay should've done this in the first place. Xeon already did, hence why I didn't even bother posting a follow-up anymore.

I'm not responsible for explaining what an engine is to you.