Preview Pillars of Eternity II Features Trailer + GDC 2018 Preview at PCGamesN

[AwesomeButton]

It's not reasonable to be getting "party input" when you are pickpocketing. There should be some skills where the character who uses them is on his own.

 

[Infinitron]

Reminder:

 

[AwesomeButton]

I know this. But a recently quoted preview mentioned party input during pickpocketing, which still doesn't make sense. I'll leave the question aside whether it makes sense for Diplomacy either.

 

[KevinV12000]

That new voice has led to significantly deeper intra-party relationships. Your companions will rub up against each other, depending on the views they hear each other espousing, and potentially develop rifts. Serafen, for instance, has no patience for racism.

Oh, goodie.

 

[Ol'man]

It's not reasonable to be getting "party input" when you are pickpocketing. There should be some skills where the character who uses them is on his own.

I agree on it not always making sense. That being said:

At least in beta, so far (and beta is super limited), the circumstances assist appears are making sense. Examples..

There is a history tag in a conversation. Other party members can assist (why would a fellow party member that is a historian just stand back and keep his mouth shut anyways?).

There are vingettes where approaching by stealth is an option. Other members' stealth skill is a factor (gaining the element of surprise isn't just dependent on your one party member that is a stealth god).

Table top games figured this out decades ago. Group rolls. Assisting roles in some form. Makes me surprised it took RPGs this long (not like it takes some masterful programming skills to implement).

There are plenty of things to complain about in the last (although very dated) patch - but this isn't one.

...and at least with pick-pocketing, depends on how they implement... in PnP a DM would (I hope) have the person that is the "assist" with pick pocketing creating some sort of distraction to draw attention away.... like how pick pockets really operate in the world. I haven't seen anything this complex, though (and I don't expect to either, unfortunately). It's just your skill+ally skill and no flavor text explaining that.

 

[Terra]

It's looking and sounding good. Never really been a massive fan of ships as homebases (horrible Suikoden IV flashbacks) but eh, I'll give it a try. Main thing I'm hoping for is for the writing not to feel as dry and overwrought as Pillars 1 really.

 

[Tygrende]

Who is your character?

Why is he there fighting?

When is this set?

Where is it set?

Who is the villain?

Why should we care about he villain?

Are the supporting characters interesting?

Is there romance?

What is the story?

The same one you played as is the first game.

He's trying to find Eothas.

3-5 years after the events of the first game.

It's in the title.

Eothas I guess, or there's a different villain who's supposed to be unknown at the time.

Eothas does something bad to your soul.

That's subjective.

Supposedly some companions might develop love towards the PC.

The previous answers pretty much sum up the premise of the story.

Bottom line is, trailers are not meant to answers the questions you are asking, or at least don't necessarily have to. For specific information like this you should watch/read backer updates, Q&As, interviews, dev posts on the Obsidian forum, etc.

 

[Glop_dweller]

...companions in Pillars of Eternity II can now pool their resources when testing skills. Your second-best thief is no longer a useless tag-along, then, but an effective boost to your party’s overall ability.

I don't see how that is necessarily a bad thing.
Always found it weird in some party-based RPGs that only your main char's stats would count in situations where one of your companions could realistically do the deed.

This is what I had assumed; and this means that not one of them is capable of succeeding in the diplomacy check.
Five bungling guitarist on stage, do not make a Mark King, or Jimmy Hendrix... but this system treats it that way.

 

[Riddler]

I know this. But a recently quoted preview mentioned party input during pickpocketing, which still doesn't make sense. I'll leave the question aside whether it makes sense for Diplomacy either.

Why not? They could run distraction. In fact that is how much (most?) pickpocketing works.

 

[TedNugent]

Who is your character?

Why is he there fighting?

When is this set?

Where is it set?

Who is the villain?

Why should we care about he villain?

Are the supporting characters interesting?

Is there romance?

What is the story?

The same one you played as is the first game.

He's trying to find Eothas.

3-5 years after the events of the first game.

It's in the title.

Eothas I guess, or there's a different villain who's supposed to be unknown at the time.

Eothas does something bad to your soul.

That's subjective.

Supposedly some companions might develop love towards the PC.

The previous answers pretty much sum up the premise of the story.

Bottom line is, trailers are not meant to answers the questions you are asking, or at least don't necessarily have to. For specific information like this you should watch/read backer updates, Q&As, interviews, dev posts on the Obsidian forum, etc.

From their Steam listing:

Pursue a rogue god over land and sea in the sequel to the multi-award-winning RPG Pillars of Eternity. Captain your ship on a dangerous voyage of discovery across the vast unexplored archipelago region of the Deadfire. Bend the world to your will, as you explore the depths of infinite possibilities, including detailed character customization, total freedom of exploration, and more meaningful choices at every turn.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

...companions in Pillars of Eternity II can now pool their resources when testing skills. Your second-best thief is no longer a useless tag-along, then, but an effective boost to your party’s overall ability.

I don't see how that is necessarily a bad thing.
Always found it weird in some party-based RPGs that only your main char's stats would count in situations where one of your companions could realistically do the deed.

This is what I had assumed; and this means that not one of them is capable of succeeding in the diplomacy check.
Five bungling guitarist on stage, do not make a Mark King, or Jimmy Hendrix... but this system treats it that way.

Their abilities really don't stack that efficiently. It's more like being in a band; one virtuoso performer and four people who can't play (bad drummer, bad bassist, bad rhythm guitarist, maybe bad pianist) will sound much worse than five competent but not brilliant musicians. A bad drummer is enough to ruin everything. Jimi Hendrix was awesome but Hendrix + a rhythm section was a lot better.

You have four people with you--should they just sit around with their thumbs up their asses? For diplomacy specifically few things are more convincing than a speaker who has a crowd of people that look like they're being convinced. You should absolutely get a bonus based on their ability to read a room.

 

[Tygrende]

Five bungling guitarist on stage, do not make a Mark King, or Jimmy Hendrix... but this system treats it that way.

A band consisting of 5 decent musicians can put up a better show than just the best of them on his own though. Performing is definitely a team effort.

So can be pickpocketing, as Riddler pointed out. It all depends on the cicumstances. For example I could see all the party members contributing to pushing a large boulder with their Athletics skill. But when the task is to dive underwater to pick something up from the bottom, that's a one man job.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Pursue a rogue god over land and sea in the sequel to the multi-award-winning RPG Pillars of Eternity. Captain your ship on a dangerous voyage of discovery across the vast unexplored archipelago region of the Deadfire. Bend the world to your will, as you explore the depths of infinite possibilities, including detailed character customization, total freedom of exploration, and more meaningful choices at every turn.

Basically the long-winded version of the trailer. At least it explains what Deadfire is.

Bend the world to your will
explore the depths of infinite possibilities
total freedom of exploration
meaningful choices at every turn

The same one you played as is the first game.

Doesn't mean a lot to those of us who fell asleep during the first few hours of gameplay and never picked it up again.

He's trying to find Eothas.

Who? What?

3-5 years after the events of the first game.

Ok...which were?

It's in the title.

Meaningless names of places I've never heard of. What if I made a game and called it "Bluefire"? Is that a spell? Is it set in a gas oven? Who knows.

Eothas I guess, or there's a different villain who's supposed to be unknown at the time.

Compelling stuff.

That's subjective.

So no reason then.

Eothas does something bad to your soul.

Don't be too specific. I might get interested.

Supposedly some companions might develop love towards the PC.

Wouldn't know it from the trailer though.

The previous answers pretty much sum up the premise of the story.

Chase a "rouge god" (whatever that means) named Eothas because he did "something bad" to your soul. Set 3+ years after some game I barely remember in a place (for all I know) called Deadfire. Why I should care or not is subjective based on a boring game I never finished.

Ok.

You've given me more info than the trailer, I'll give you that.

Bottom line is, trailers are not meant to answers the questions you are asking, or at least don't necessarily have to.

I don't necessarily have to be interested in the game, either. I can always lose interest and go watch some cat videos. Which was kind of my point.

For specific information like this you should watch/read backer updates, Q&As, interviews, dev posts on the Obsidian forum, etc.

Which I won't do if the trailer doesn't hook me.

 

[Glop_dweller]

A band consisting of 5 decent musicians can put up a better show than just the best of them on his own though. Performing is definitely a team effort.

Their abilities really don't stack that efficiently. It's more like being in a band; one virtuoso performer and four people who can't play (bad drummer, bad bassist, bad rhythm guitarist, maybe bad pianist) will sound much worse than five competent but not brilliant musicians. A bad drummer is enough to ruin everything. Jimi Hendrix was awesome but Hendrix + a rhythm section was a lot better.

But that's not likely to be how it will play out. I truly doubt that the other's will help; it may even be the case that the others are on the other side of the map during the diplomacy check, or unconscious; or bleeding. How does somebody help bluff a guard when they are bleeding profusely?
(They'd better add a penalty if they are.

)

The main problem is that knowledge doesn't stack like that. If you have five kids doing a math problem, but only one understands long division... the redundant skills that they have in common don't improve the skills of the only one that understands the problem.
__

My first impression of this system is that the game will shamelessly cater to the player as a special chosen one, and allow them a free pass even when their party is inept for the task at hand.

If they want to do this, then they should at least have a mechanic that pairs two or more PC's into a group so that they are each committed to the action, and they each have to be conscious and fit to help out. (But it still won't make sense.)

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I know this. But a recently quoted preview mentioned party input during pickpocketing, which still doesn't make sense.

Your Character: *picks pocket*
Gay-Looking Elf Rapist Party Member: Be careful not to accidentally jiggle his balls!
Your Character: *success*
NPC: *stunned silence*

 

[AwesomeButton]

I know this. But a recently quoted preview mentioned party input during pickpocketing, which still doesn't make sense. I'll leave the question aside whether it makes sense for Diplomacy either.

Why not? They could run distraction. In fact that is how much (most?) pickpocketing works.

I thought this also applies when you are pickpocketing in the game world, and not merely in scripted interactions.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I thought this also applies when you are pickpocketing in the game world, and not merely in scripted interactions.

Well, the help is implied. You have to imagine it. Like the trailer told me nothing and I have to imagine this is a decent game. Or not.

 

[Glop_dweller]

You have four people with you--should they just sit around with their thumbs up their asses?

Yes. The purpose of redundant skill is to have someone to revive the doctor; or to manage two tasks at once; two heavy fighters, or two thieves in different rooms.

You cannot have three people pick a lock, or four people trying to explain something to one listener. If they do it separately—that's separate skill use.

Two 7th level fighters do not make an 8th level fighter; they make two attacks from 7th level fighters.

 

[Tygrende]

The main problem is that knowledge doesn't stack like that.

Knowledge can absolutely be a team effort as well and very frequently is. Just because someone has a bigger overall understanding of a subject does not mean he knows every single thing his less knowledgable peers do.

If you have five kids doing a math problem, but only one understands long division... the redundant skills that they have in common don't improve the skills of the only one that understands the problem.

Perhaps it's one of the less knowledgeable kids who happens to remember long division and nothing else.

But I understand the point you are making. If it's the less knowledgeable kid that remembers long division then other kids still don't contribute to it at all. I feel this simply can't be implemented well in a simple system where the overall knowledge someone has is just a number.

 

[Glop_dweller]

My thinking was that there was a 4th grader and a few 1st graders. The implication being that all of them knew basic addition & subtraction, but that a room full of 1st graders would not be much help to the 4th grader in solving a division problem; something that they had not yet even begun to study.

I feel this simply can't be implemented well in a simple system where the overall knowledge someone has is just a number.

This is one of the reasons that I do not like threshold systems. It causes the lower skilled PC to be useless—unless the developer wisely ranks the party skills upon who is present, and who is conscious. If they used a weighted percentage skill system, then they could at least have both PCs take a shot at the task—without either of them succeeding beyond their ability.

In the very least, I'd hope that the party members have to be awake and present in close proximity to offer their aid.
(And ideally that certain skills & situation should be exempt from this mechanic.)

 

[Ol'man]

A band consisting of 5 decent musicians can put up a better show than just the best of them on his own though. Performing is definitely a team effort.

Their abilities really don't stack that efficiently. It's more like being in a band; one virtuoso performer and four people who can't play (bad drummer, bad bassist, bad rhythm guitarist, maybe bad pianist) will sound much worse than five competent but not brilliant musicians. A bad drummer is enough to ruin everything. Jimi Hendrix was awesome but Hendrix + a rhythm section was a lot better.

But that's not likely to be how it will play out. I truly doubt that the other's will help; it may even be the case that the others are on the other side of the map during the diplomacy check, or unconscious; or bleeding. How does somebody help bluff a guard when they are bleeding profusely?
(They'd better add a penalty if they are.

)

The main problem is that knowledge doesn't stack like that. If you have five kids doing a math problem, but only one understands long division... the redundant skills that they have in common don't improve the skills of the only one that understands the problem.
__

My first impression of this system is that the game will shamelessly cater to the player as a special chosen one, and allow them a free pass even when their party is inept for the task at hand.

If they want to do this, then they should at least have a mechanic that pairs two or more PC's into a group so that they are each committed to the action, and they each have to be conscious and fit to help out. (But it still won't make sense.)

Right now, the examples in beta are nothing like the math or band comparisons I'm seeing tossed around (nor are there skills you can invest in that would mirror that...). They're more comparable to a history/knowladge check that can be rationalized (like one guy knows the most about a historical battle for example, but a party member remembers some additional detail your history guru forgot, improving your total score).

Actually, there is a music check of sorts - chanter only - and that makes sense.

 

[vazha]

II'll leave the question aside whether it makes sense for Diplomacy either.

Just imagined an in-game situation when you have to negotiate with, say, bandit chief and your second-in-command keeps butting into conversation, because muh skill pooling

 

[UnknownBro]

Sawyer is a shitty designer. What a shocker!!!!!

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

the god looks gay as a fuck, reminds me of that like that stupid blue 'god' dude from the watchman movie. The ship and exploration parts look pretty interesting so far.... The whole thing for me however will come down to if the combat is actually fun and if character progression is more differentiated and interesting. Btw, are some of the clips in the trailer presented in slow motion? Or do they just run like faggots?

 

[AwesomeButton]

Take a look at the character creation UI, if you can call it that. The "Gender" screen's icon shows a man in whose heart there is a Venus Mirror symbol. Probably the ultimate feminist.