KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Galdred]

Since you got all DLC anyways, play with Terror from the VOID mod overhaul instead once you finish your current run. It uses all these DLC materials in a better way

If I only have the time for 1 playthrough, would you still recommend TFTV then? What difficulty level would be similar to XCOM Long War:commander?

 

[ArchAngel]

Since you got all DLC anyways, play with Terror from the VOID mod overhaul instead once you finish your current run. It uses all these DLC materials in a better way

If I only have the time for 1 playthrough, would you still recommend TFTV then? What difficulty level would be similar to XCOM Long War:commander?

Long War Commander was very hard so if you are looking for real challenge play TFTV on hardest difficulty (Legendary).

 

[Alienman]

while also bringing in one of the most irritating and needlessly battle prolonging enemy of any similar TB game I can remember.

What alien is that? The big mother one that spawns additional?

 

[ArchAngel]

while also bringing in one of the most irritating and needlessly battle prolonging enemy of any similar TB game I can remember.

What alien is that? The big mother one that spawns additional?

Acheron that summons a bunch on new Pandorans each turn for 5 WP. And if there are multiple on the map they become even more irritating.

 

[Jaedar]

Since you got all DLC anyways, play with Terror from the VOID mod overhaul instead once you finish your current run. It uses all these DLC materials in a better way

If I only have the time for 1 playthrough, would you still recommend TFTV then? What difficulty level would be similar to XCOM Long War:commander?

Yeah, go TFTV. With the soldier and vehicle reworks that are recommended to go along with it.

LW could be pretty tricky, but you probably also played firaxcom at least twice (base game and expansion?) so you were pretty familiar. If you're going in blind probably stick to 2nd or 3rd hardest.

 

[ArchAngel]

Since you got all DLC anyways, play with Terror from the VOID mod overhaul instead once you finish your current run. It uses all these DLC materials in a better way

If I only have the time for 1 playthrough, would you still recommend TFTV then? What difficulty level would be similar to XCOM Long War:commander?

Yeah, go TFTV. With the soldier and vehicle reworks that are recommended to go along with it.

LW could be pretty tricky, but you probably also played firaxcom at least twice (base game and expansion?) so you were pretty familiar. If you're going in blind probably stick to 2nd or 3rd hardest.

Soldier rework is part of TFTV, vehicle rework (Better Vehicles) is seperate mod but at some point a new better version of it will be added into TFTV

 

[Shaki]

while also bringing in one of the most irritating and needlessly battle prolonging enemy of any similar TB game I can remember.

What alien is that? The big mother one that spawns additional?

Acheron that summons a bunch on new Pandorans each turn for 5 WP. And if there are multiple on the map they become even more irritating.

I like Acherons tho, imho they add more depth to the combat, other than them I feel only Triton snipers are challenging and require prioritizing, even at the cost of exposing yourself, every other enemy so far is just fodder, including Chirons and Sirens, Chirons especially were a huge letdown, they look tough and dangerous but are absolutely useless. I hope there are some actually strong enemies later.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Acherons are fine when its just one. When there are two or more of them constantly healing each other, reviving enemies and summoning reinforcements it gets old real fast.
Apparently you can't shut down their revive ability either. You can't even paralyze them because late game variants have resistance against it and a cleanse.
Fortunately the game does give you tools to deal with them; they really hate explosives and fire, and they have so many limbs that you can stack some heavy bleed on them. Crippling the head stops their reinforcements, but they are so fast and mobile that they usually just hide like little bitches and calls reinforcements from out of LoS.

 

[Galdred]

I feel a bit lost on the geoscape. Most tactical missions have been manageable, with some being very hard (the ones to "greet" new factions). I read in a lot of places that you were supposed to steal aircrafts from Synedrion, but is it still realistic in TFTV, both in terms of reputation cost and battle difficulty (early on)?

What are the best researches to focus on? Which faction do I need high friendship with? Should I try allying with 2 factions and raiding the third one?

What is your recommended "build order" in the first base? It looks like I also reached the limits of my range, as I cleared every visible PoI and don't have any new one popping up. Do I need to acquire the New Jericho aircraft for extended range?

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

You need to activate more bases ASAP. Your Radar range only extends so far and aircraft cannot scan, unlike in X-COM.
Additional Radars in a single base will NOT increase your radar range either.
Every base should have a Radar. You don't really need more than that except for your dedicated research and manufacturing hubs.
Some players have a training base full of training centers where they just drop new recruits but I find that to be too much microing.

I dunno how TFTV handles aircraft theft. In vanilla you don't actually want to raid too much or often because if you do you'll be pretty far behind and might even aggro that faction.
Early game you should try picking up some syn tech because they do have strong strategic level options.
Next you absolutely want to get incendiary grenades, heavy weapons and the cattle-prod from NJ because those are strong tactical options and makes encounters so much easier.
Anu tech is also pretty useful, but I find that NJ grenades, cattle prod and technicians are more useful overall.

Remember that if you are missing tech you can just steal it.

 

[ArchAngel]

You need to activate more bases ASAP. Your Radar range only extends so far and aircraft cannot scan, unlike in X-COM.
Additional Radars in a single base will NOT increase your radar range either.
Every base should have a Radar. You don't really need more than that except for your dedicated research and manufacturing hubs.
Some players have a training base full of training centers where they just drop new recruits but I find that to be too much microing.

I dunno how TFTV handles aircraft theft. In vanilla you don't actually want to raid too much or often because if you do you'll be pretty far behind and might even aggro that faction.
Early game you should try picking up some syn tech because they do have strong strategic level options.
Next you absolutely want to get incendiary grenades, heavy weapons and the cattle-prod from NJ because those are strong tactical options and makes encounters so much easier.
Anu tech is also pretty useful, but I find that NJ grenades, cattle prod and technicians are more useful overall.

Remember that if you are missing tech you can just steal it.

All good advice.
Let me add a bit of TFTV info to this.
Aircraft are easier to produce in TFTV and cost more negative reputation to steal so stealing early is no longer best solution.
Also tech can be bought at Black Market as well. TFTV removed 5 irritating missions that reduce costs in Black Market so BM is much more useful earlier.

Also TFTV lets you reverse engineer all tech that is taken from bodies and scavenging and get base tech from it. This was done to balance tech gain because it is much harder to get tech from all factions through diplomacy.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

If you go the Anu route you might want a base for mutagen and food production too.
Its not absolutely necessary but it is a nice QoL option and if you have that tech you might as well use it to its fullest.
I think for Ancient Weapons you can stack archeological facilities as well, so having a dedicated base for that might be handy too. Again though, not completely necessary.
Dedicated Research and manufacturing hubs are vastly more important though, because no matter what faction tree you're following, you're going to need both.

For your main base you'll want to have a slot free for Pandoran containment and cybernetics. I dunno how it is in TFTV, but in vanilla cybernetic facility doesn't produce any resources so there's no point in having multiple like the mutation building. It also affects all soldiers globally, so if you just have one in your base you can upgrade your soldiers no matter where they are.
Pandoran containment only has a cap of 50, but it doesn't matter because you'll be melting down Pandorans for mutagen and food (if you have the research options)

 

[ArchAngel]

If you go the Anu route you might want a base for mutagen and food production too.
Its not absolutely necessary but it is a nice QoL option and if you have that tech you might as well use it to its fullest.
I think for Ancient Weapons you can stack archeological facilities as well, so having a dedicated base for that might be handy too. Again though, not completely necessary.
Dedicated Research and manufacturing hubs are vastly more important though, because no matter what faction tree you're following, you're going to need both.

For your main base you'll want to have a slot free for Pandoran containment and cybernetics. I dunno how it is in TFTV, but in vanilla cybernetic facility doesn't produce any resources so there's no point in having multiple like the mutation building. It also affects all soldiers globally, so if you just have one in your base you can upgrade your soldiers no matter where they are.
Pandoran containment only has a cap of 50, but it doesn't matter because you'll be melting down Pandorans for mutagen and food (if you have the research options)

Ancient weapons are a bit nerfed in TFTV but easier to access and you cannot have unlimited number of them. Fights vs Ancients are harder but also let you progress to end game tech instead of doing vanilla story missions so there are now two viable paths.
Cybernetics building is worth one research building but beyond that there is no point making more than one.
And while in TFTV you can still mod soldiers anywhere they lose all their stamina from the process to simulate them needing to rest after the procedure.

 

[Jaedar]

I read in a lot of places that you were supposed to steal aircrafts from Synedrion, but is it still realistic in TFTV, both in terms of reputation cost and battle difficulty (early on)?

Supposed to is a strong way of putting it, but it was optimal in vanilla. It's not really the case in TFTV, since ships are kinda useless for troop movement without the transport module, and that accounts for half the cost anyway.

What are the best researches to focus on? Which faction do I need high friendship with? Should I try allying with 2 factions and raiding the third one?

You can't really decide which faction to ally with, because most of it comes down to where the aliens decide to attack. Although if you get an opportunity to hit one of the reputation breakpoints (25,50,75) with a raid it can be worthwhile. Iirc there's not really any early game tech that is worth beelining towards, it all depends on which factions you find, what gear you loot and your personal preferences.

 

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

So is this game actually any good? I heard bad things around it's release involving the "aiming" mechanic, but haven't seen an overall review of it.

 

[Doktor Best]

As i got this game on humblebundle i am debating starting a playthrough to see what its about. Recent user ratings seem to be rising.

Is the TFTV mod good for a first playthrough?

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

So is this game actually any good? I heard bad things around it's release involving the "aiming" mechanic, but haven't seen an overall review of it.

Its a little jank a probably needed some more polish, but its pretty good.
The aiming mechanic is great. The issue is more about cover being a bit useless compared to Firaxcom, as the AI will somehow thread the needle and headshot a troop if they so much as see an ear. Apparently in the future soldiers are too stupid to keep their heads down.

 

[ArchAngel]

As i got this game on humblebundle i am debating starting a playthrough to see what its about. Recent user ratings seem to be rising.

Is the TFTV mod good for a first playthrough?

Should be if you keep the difficulty on Veteran and do not go above. It makes some things harder, some things easier than vanilla. But it fixes some abuses that people playing vanilla first might learn to rely on and then it might make TFTV seem harder to them.
But if you go into it first, you will never know about those things so you will just learn how to play properly.

Just note that TFTV is still being worked on and while updates should not break saves (but 1.0 version will) they do change some mechanics (like last bigger update changed how acid works and how counters to acid work).

 

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

So is this game actually any good? I heard bad things around it's release involving the "aiming" mechanic, but haven't seen an overall review of it.

Its a little jank a probably needed some more polish, but its pretty good.
The aiming mechanic is great. The issue is more about cover being a bit useless compared to Firaxcom, as the AI will somehow thread the needle and headshot a troop if they so much as see an ear. Apparently in the future soldiers are too stupid to keep their heads down.

"The aiming mechanic is great"
>proceeds to explain a significant problem with the game caused by the aiming mechanic

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

That's not an issue with the aiming mechanic though. That's more of an issue of how character models interact with cover that runs contrary to how most modern tactical games use cover. If you think about it, PP's treatment of cover is closer to X-COM; the best way to not get shot is not to be seen. It is still nonetheless frustrating to see a triton sniper score a head shot against a trained soldier who should really have an animation to actually use high cover instead of just standing there.
There is an animation with low cover, at least; character models will crouch behind it, so ironically low cover actually is a little less annoying and probably more effective to use than high cover.

The aiming mechanic itself is fine and adds a fair bit of tactical flexibility to the game.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

As i got this game on humblebundle i am debating starting a playthrough to see what its about. Recent user ratings seem to be rising.

Is the TFTV mod good for a first playthrough?

Should be if you keep the difficulty on Veteran and do not go above. It makes some things harder, some things easier than vanilla. But it fixes some abuses that people playing vanilla first might learn to rely on and then it might make TFTV seem harder to them.
But if you go into it first, you will never know about those things so you will just learn how to play properly.

Just note that TFTV is still being worked on and while updates should not break saves (but 1.0 version will) they do change some mechanics (like last bigger update changed how acid works and how counters to acid work).

What are the changes to Acid?

 

[ArchAngel]

As i got this game on humblebundle i am debating starting a playthrough to see what its about. Recent user ratings seem to be rising.

Is the TFTV mod good for a first playthrough?

Should be if you keep the difficulty on Veteran and do not go above. It makes some things harder, some things easier than vanilla. But it fixes some abuses that people playing vanilla first might learn to rely on and then it might make TFTV seem harder to them.
But if you go into it first, you will never know about those things so you will just learn how to play properly.

Just note that TFTV is still being worked on and while updates should not break saves (but 1.0 version will) they do change some mechanics (like last bigger update changed how acid works and how counters to acid work).

What are the changes to Acid?

Base damage is nerfed a bit (by 10 for acid attack that did 30 damage and maybe even 20) but nanotech no longer reduces all special damage by 10 but it is now a consumable that removes all negative effects including acid.
Acid now does half damage to body parts once it has eaten through armor. There are Acid Vests now to equip on your dudes but you cannot equip them on Cybernetic body part (or any other vest). Technician AoE armor ability no longer prevents acid damage (this was #1 way to stop acid until now and it made it almost pointless once it ate through armor but if you didn't have Technician acid was super deadly).

Goal was to make acid harder to stop but make it less deadly vs our soldiers. It was big problem in end game and game didn't really have good tools for handling it. You were forced into Nanotech plus using Techs in all teams.

 

[Trithne]

Everything having one specific counter you had to have, and if you didn't have it then it would rip you a new one was a pretty consistent issue in Vanilla PP. The number tuning was also wack, pretty much every status effect was "cure it within a turn or you're fucked".

I really should look into forking TFTV and seeing if some of the changes I've thought of are viable to implement.

 

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

That's not an issue with the aiming mechanic though. That's more of an issue of how character models interact with cover that runs contrary to how most modern tactical games use cover. If you think about it, PP's treatment of cover is closer to X-COM; the best way to not get shot is not to be seen. It is still nonetheless frustrating to see a triton sniper score a head shot against a trained soldier who should really have an animation to actually use high cover instead of just standing there.
There is an animation with low cover, at least; character models will crouch behind it, so ironically low cover actually is a little less annoying and probably more effective to use than high cover.

The aiming mechanic itself is fine and adds a fair bit of tactical flexibility to the game.

The reason it's related is because most games (including Xcom) determine cover using tiles, if your character is on the right tile, you're in cover, regardless of their animation. Because Phoenix Point decided to implement their "aim at enemies" mechanic, they had to instead use a system whereby cover is based purely on how visible you are. In a tileset based game, this is horrendous. Even in a "free movement" game like Warhammer 40k, this is horrendous.

So yes, this IS the aim mechanics fault. It has affected the rest of their game design, and it looks like it did so in a really bad way.

 

[ArchAngel]

That's not an issue with the aiming mechanic though. That's more of an issue of how character models interact with cover that runs contrary to how most modern tactical games use cover. If you think about it, PP's treatment of cover is closer to X-COM; the best way to not get shot is not to be seen. It is still nonetheless frustrating to see a triton sniper score a head shot against a trained soldier who should really have an animation to actually use high cover instead of just standing there.
There is an animation with low cover, at least; character models will crouch behind it, so ironically low cover actually is a little less annoying and probably more effective to use than high cover.

The aiming mechanic itself is fine and adds a fair bit of tactical flexibility to the game.

The reason it's related is because most games (including Xcom) determine cover using tiles, if your character is on the right tile, you're in cover, regardless of their animation. Because Phoenix Point decided to implement their "aim at enemies" mechanic, they had to instead use a system whereby cover is based purely on how visible you are. In a tileset based game, this is horrendous. Even in a "free movement" game like Warhammer 40k, this is horrendous.

So yes, this IS the aim mechanics fault. It has affected the rest of their game design, and it looks like it did so in a really bad way.

It is also the best mechanic it has and what has made it stand out from its worse competition like new Xcom games.