Game News PC Gaming Show at E3 2015: Pillars of Eternity: The White March Expansion Pack Announced

[Sceptic]

I'm simply making an observation.

Except it's not an observation, it's rewriting people's thought processes so you can dismiss their criticism of a game that you like as being irrelevant to the game's own flaws and grounded in something unrelated.

And yet we all grinded through mob-infested dungeon after mob-infested dungeon, testing our party's mettle, proud of our handiwork and glad to earn what little bits of unique content we found at the other side.

Bard's Tale, criticized for its grinding and repetitive encounters. Repetitive encounters in Wizard's Crown. My own comments on Square Lake Cavern in MM2, which I've spent the past 27 years slamming for its repetitiveness and boredom. Codex posts on Baldur's Gate that mention BG2 improved on BG1's repetitive and filler encounters.

I remember the inherent smugness we used to have as CRPG players. "You guys go play your grindy and repetitive JRPGs*, we'll stick to our superior computer games."

* Whether JRPGs as a general rule are actually grindy and repetitive is irrelevant to the argument.

 

[Infinitron]

Bard's Tale, criticized for its grinding and repetitive encounters. Repetitive encounters in Wizard's Crown. My own comments on Square Lake Cavern in MM2, which I've spent the past 27 years slamming for its repetitiveness and boredom. Codex posts on Baldur's Gate that mention BG2 improved on BG1's repetitive and filler encounters.

I remember the inherent smugness we used to have as CRPG players. "You guys go play your grindy and repetitive JRPGs*, we'll stick to our superior computer games."

* Whether JRPGs as a general rule are actually grindy and repetitive is irrelevant to the argument.

I don't doubt it, but notice that I used the phrase "smacks of repetition". It's not really a binary thing, it's more like a continuum of fillerness, from your stereotypical JRPGs on one side to Shadowrun on the other side, with stuff like PoE, WL2 or the recently reviewed Banner Saga somewhere in the middle. What I'm noticing is that for an increasing number of people that preference seems to be skewing hard towards the direction of less and less filler.

Fallout has nearly no filler, perhaps the codex was founded upon fillerphobia.

Yeah, and then you have those people who hate the wanamingo encounters in FO2. Always thought that was silly.

 

[Ulrox]

Fallout has nearly no filler, perhaps the codex was founded upon fillerphobia.

Yeah, but then you have those people who hate the wanamingo encounters in FO2. Always thought that was silly.

Fillerphobia, or gaming fatigue is something I have experienced in some of my friends. There is only two real solutions to the issue as far as I know... Either smoke weed, or drink alcohol while gaming.

Always loved the Wanamingo encounters in FO2 because Wanamingo's give tons of exp.

 

[likaq]

Yeah, I'm sure it's not that anyone who isn't a blind fanboy would object to this kind of timewasting. It's not as if grindy and boring filler content has been slammed since the 80s in every possible genre of games. And I'm sure that's the explanation for why Dragonfall is liked better than DMS. Or maybe, you know, the quality of said content was better in one? Nah, inconceivable!

Rotfl.
Every combatfag on this forum fap to games that are full of trash mobs / filler combat : Bg2, icewind dale 1, entire wizardry series, m&m series, kotc, goldbox series
Every fucking combatfag crpg that is loved by Jasede or Mondblut (or any other combatfag) is fucking full of trash mobs. Main offenders? wiz series and goldbox series
How about kotc? Kotc don't have grindy and boring filler content (trash mobs) which was according to you was

slammed since the 80s in every possible genre of games

?

Quote 1 single post where mondblut is shitting on trash mobs or

grindy and boring filler content

if you prefer this name in wiz7 or goldbox series.

You can't, ergo

Yeah, I'm sure it's not that anyone who isn't a blind fanboy would object to this kind of timewasting. It's not as if grindy and boring filler content has been slammed since the 80s in every possible genre of games

is not true and Infinitron is right.

 

[Infinitron]

I want to repeat that I'm honestly not fanboying here. I find this topic of "how much is too much combat" and how it differs among different people fascinating.

Like, in my case, I never really got the whole "DA:O Deep Roads and NWN2 Orc Caves are TERRIBLE" meme. On the other hand, three acts of clearing out the same areas in Dragon Age 2 got on my nerves, and the respawning kobold commandos in the Firewine Bridge in BG1 also got on my nerves. I think the sense of spatial progression is key here.

 

[Hegel]

You moved from "this XP is going to be PoE's Dragonfall or PoE's mask of the betrayer/HoTU" to "it's good for what it is".
Enjoy your 5 hour expansion pack. Even the trailer is cheap. Still I can't get my mind around who's getting the worse deal: us backers who are getting this stuff for free, or the idiots paying 15$ for this pile of crap.
The only good thing that's coming out of this mess is that they might be able to reuse MCA's cut content and that Sawyer will go insane for real while trying to balance the new skills/feats into the pre-existing game, however he might opt to preserve his sanity and save himself from the hassle by just adding more of the same flavor to an already bland dish.

Kill the Xaurip XP1: more grueling encounters with snow covered frost xaurips.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Every fucking combatfag crpg that is loved by Jasede or Mondblut (or any other combatfag) is fucking full of trash mobs. Main offenders? wiz series and goldbox series

Pool of Radiance was my first CRPG and certainly had its share of trash mobs. At the time I loved the fact that I could play D&D without having to prepare or arrange a group with a DM, got totally addicted to the combat, exploration, developing my party - everything. It provided what I was used to from D&D, an inexperienced party venturing out into dangerous areas, gradually accumulating equipment and becoming more powerful - in the course of an overarching narrative. If I was ambushed by some enemies with archers I'd curse as they did damage but appreciate the xp, possibly some gold towards some armour I wanted to buy. I'd refill my quivers with looted arrows.

Obviously I'm more jaded now and I can't imagine what someone born in 2000 thinks of the Gold Box games, even though I still go back to play them. There is truth to what Infinitron says but that is only examining one side of the equation - it's not just us that has changed, the games have too. Now we have detailed arguments about combat xp where we talk loftily of skinner boxes and mock the idea of numbers going up. We talk of modern design removing supposedly "unfun" mechanics like missile ammunition. Many games have regeneration as healing is supposedly unfun, so even the damage the trash mobs do is no longer relevant. What's left is just the combat itself - either it's fun fighting the trash mobs for no reward or longer-term implications or it isn't.

tl;dr: We all become more jaded as we get older and the nostalgia goggles are obviously thick when I consider the Gold Box games. But, while I agree with some of what Infinitron says I think it is an oversimplification as the games themselves now provide very different challenges and experiences.

 

[tuluse]

I thought it was clear this is going to be Tales of the Dyrwood Coast for a while now.

 

[Lurker King]

I think most players use “trash mobs” as a derogative expression to denote repetitive boring combat and poor encounter design. What someone consider repetitive boring combat and poor encounter design will vary according to their knowledge about cRPGs, etc. If you never played a cRPG in your life, the combat in Oblivion looks awesome, but if you played JA2, it sucks. For me W2 (with just a few exceptions) and PoE has trash mobs. Another element that is important to this discussion is the so-called sense of progression. This is also important in heavy-combat games and the lack of it can contribute to be perceived as more trashy. While playing W2 I didn’t feel any sense of progression whatsoever, it was such a boring slog.

 

[Zep Zepo]

What?....4 pages and no White March images?

Zep--

 

[Jedi Exile]

Not a very exciting trailer (where is gameplay?), but new areas and companions are nice. If one of them is a rogue, it could mean more quests to do for my rogue except from stealing that stupid gem in Defiance Bay. Just don't turn it into another 'mega dungeon' please.

I also hope that finishing vanilla game isn't required to start the expansion, because I am not feeling like killing those two giant statues again after a rather pointless conversation with Thaos.

It's very nice learn english in the codex.

Interesting, it was a reason why I started posting here. In retrospect, might not be a very good idea. I noticed that my vocabulary is getting rather limited since I mostly use such words and expressions such as 'shit/fuck', 'what the fuck is this shit', 'this is the new shit', 'Sawyer', 'lol grognards', 'Avellone' etc.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

So yeah, here's the deal. Aging RPG players tend to suffer from a malady I call "fillerphobia" - an increasingly crippling aversion to anything that smacks of repetition. For that reason alone, many Codexers will consider T:ToN the superior game by definition, no matter what it does. This also explains the overnight massive popularity of the Shadowrun games here, once HBS got past their awkward birthing phase after the OC (which many posters now claim wasn't so bad after all).

This is such a divisive factor, that in the future, the Codex may need to actually taxonomically separate the RPG genre into two branches - "traditional" RPGs and filler-free RPGs.

You put way too much stock in tastes and preferences and too often use them to dismiss criticism of game's genuine flaws. A game is not defined by its list of features, they're merely starting points and by themselves guarantee nothing, it's the execution that counts. Saying that many Codexers will consider TToN to be superior by definition is ridiculously shallow preemptive excuse and is taking the credit away from people working on it.

My issue is not trash/filler combat but that in PoE the special encounters go the same routine way of tank and spank which coupled with static combat (penalized movement by genious engagement system and the worst short distance pathfinding I've ever seen) makes for an overall monotonous (combat) experience. There's also a general lack of genuinely strong aspects of the game that define your experience and make you overlook the weaker ones, aside from arguably the CC system which has very good potential despite the utterly untuitive attribute system.

 

[GloomFrost]

Hmm, quite some hate for Wasteland and PoE. They deserve plenty critics but those games are not "shit". Compared to the hitchhiking simulators and the age of anal dragons, they are miles away from the toilets with those 2. Dont tell me you guys liked Follout 3 more than Wasteland 2.

Between the 2 I also liked Wasteland more, especially because TB combat. Other than that, it felt good playing both games. Most of the time. I mean they are decent and it feels similar in atmosphere with the old games we love. Not the great games we were hoping for but both the developers and us are older and different now. And most of us burnt by the long drought.

Still, considering what games we could play in the last years before Kickstarter hit, this is not bad time to play in at all. Yes, I wish I was 20 and playing Torment again, but that wont come back. And Torment like Torment but I used to court two sisters, 18, with the best asses ever.... Now they are almost hags I guess. As the developers are. As we are. I say Wasteland 2 and PoE are the classics getting older. It sucks to get old. Or we can accept it.

Fallout 3 or Skyrim are much more enjoyable experiences than Wasteland 2.[/QUOTE

HOLY SWEET MOTHER OF GOD!!! What DA FUCK AM I READING????

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

So yeah, here's the deal. Aging RPG players tend to suffer from a malady I call "fillerphobia" - an increasingly crippling aversion to anything that smacks of repetition. For that reason alone, many Codexers will consider T:ToN the superior game by definition, no matter what it does. This also explains the overnight massive popularity of the Shadowrun games here, once HBS got past their awkward birthing phase after the OC (which many posters now claim wasn't so bad after all).

This is such a divisive factor, that in the future, the Codex may need to actually taxonomically separate the RPG genre into two branches - "traditional" RPGs and filler-free RPGs.

Fallout has nearly no filler, perhaps the codex was founded upon fillerphobia.

Well......

 

[Sceptic]

Quote 1 single post where mondblut is shitting on trash mobs

Because even other combatfags on this forum have never mocked mondblut's hex editing obsession and he's the one and only authority on CRPGs in the entire universe

You could've ended your post at "Rofl", nothing after this added anything.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I find it tremendously funny that Infinitron still doesn't see the difference between tons of combat encounters that are well-designed and which matter (not filler) and tons of combat encounters that are terribly designed and which could just as well not be there (filler crap). But it's everyone else that's crazy, lololololo

 

[DeepOcean]

On the past trash mobs were something you survived with great boredom to see the good bits of a game but nowdays there are people defending them?

Guess when the only content on your game is composed of trash mobs, you kinda have to defend them.

 

[Visbhume]

Hoping that the AI system is configurable and versatile.

 

[agris]

Keep in mind that trash mobs also serve(d) a purpose: they let us try out different skills/spells/tactics without the consequences of non-optimal play being deadly. That's important, especially for games with deep combat systems.

edit: not saying that's PoE, I'm just defending the general use of some trash mobs.

 

[Weirdstuffinspace]

I also hope that finishing vanilla game isn't required to start the expansion

Probably not. Obsidian didn't and still they've started on it.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Keep in mind that trash mobs also serve(d) a purpose: they let us try out different skills/spells/tactics without the consequences of non-optimal play being deadly. That's important, especially for a games with deep combat systems.

This guy sees it.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Fallout has nearly no filler, perhaps the codex was founded upon fillerphobia.

Start in the Vault 13 entrance, kill 20 rats or so. Go to the Vault 15, kill 50 or so additional rats. In shady sands, kill 8 scorpions and a dozen of raiders. Junktown and Hub are mercifully free, but Necropolis is kill many more rats and feral ghouls. Glow is kill the same robot encounter on every level (either sleeping or active). Boneyard is also fine. Military base & Cathedral are kill-kill-kill, kill the mutant hordes.

 

[Ulrox]

Fallout has nearly no filler, perhaps the codex was founded upon fillerphobia.

Start in the Vault 13 entrance, kill 20 rats or so. Go to the Vault 15, kill 50 or so additional rats. In shady sands, kill 8 scorpions and a dozen of raiders. Junktown and Hub are mercifully free, but Necropolis is kill many more rats and feral ghouls. Glow is kill the same robot encounter on every level (either sleeping or active). Boneyard is also fine. Military base & Cathedral are kill-kill-kill, kill the mutant hordes.

Exept that you can skip all of that content if you wish, unless you're doing a combatboy playthrough.

 

[markec]

Keep in mind that trash mobs also serve(d) a purpose: they let us try out different skills/spells/tactics without the consequences of non-optimal play being deadly. That's important, especially for a games with deep combat systems.

edit: not saying that's PoE, I'm just defending the general use of some trash mobs.

There is no problem with trash mobs in general. Problem with PoE is that 80% of the game is nothing but poorly designed encounters of trash mobs.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Fallout has nearly no filler, perhaps the codex was founded upon fillerphobia.

Start in the Vault 13 entrance, kill 20 rats or so. Go to the Vault 15, kill 50 or so additional rats. In shady sands, kill 8 scorpions and a dozen of raiders. Junktown and Hub are mercifully free, but Necropolis is kill many more rats and feral ghouls. Glow is kill the same robot encounter on every level (either sleeping or active). Boneyard is also fine. Military base & Cathedral are kill-kill-kill, kill the mutant hordes.

Guess someone just got told.