Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[ga♥]

Alienman have you tried to

Spoiler

git gud

 

[Alienman]

If only Owlcat git gud at designing games, but alas.

Kingmaker was good though, I admit, after 30 million patches. It still had its issues, but overall as a complete package(with DLCs) the game was fun and I enjoyed the story and progression. In Wrath I couldn't care less if the demons get to sodomize everyone in Golorian because of my failings. And it seems nobody else care either since I think I defeated the main threat and saved Dresden after 1 or 2 months. Something the dumb Queen and her crusaders apparently couldn't do, and then she has the stomach to send me alone on a suicide mission to the abyss? The writing is just so underwhelming and stupid for something that is supposed to be epic.

So if the game actually made me care I would slog my way through Minhago and her buttbuddies too, like a fought through countless demons and one-shotting bosses before, but man, the game does not justify the time spent. It's so boring. Well, at least I united Lann with his mom.

 

[ga♥]

I am 99.99% sure you are not playing as angel. Btw if a fight is hard what about you go do something else and come back when you are leveled? The 2nd minagho fight is fully optional, you don't even have to do it to progress the story (or just lower the difficulty you know).

 

[Alienman]

No, I'm a hippie Azata.

And sure I could do that, come back I mean, lowering the difficulty would feel like cheating though, but it's not really that, it's the encounter design in general that gets me. I just can't take it anymore. Walking into a room/cave/sex-dungeon and get overwhelmed by 8000 thousand things(or one badass thing at times). I'm just not sure how to counter stuff like that except having knowledge of the encounter beforehand.

 

[ArchAngel]

No, I'm a hippie Azata.

And sure I could do that, come back I mean, lowering the difficulty would feel like cheating though, but it's not really that, it's the encounter design in general that gets me. I just can't take it anymore. Walking into a room/cave/sex-dungeon and get overwhelmed by 8000 thousand things(or one badass thing at times). I'm just not sure how to counter stuff like that except having knowledge of the encounter beforehand.

This all sounds like you are playing on too high difficulty for your knowledge of the game and rules. No shame in lowering the difficulty to what is fun for you. Kingmaker was easier on same difficulty name than WotR and most of us love it that we actually get some challenge even on non max difficulty.

 

[Cryomancer]

Something the dumb Queen and her crusaders apparently couldn't do, and then she has the stomach to send me alone on a suicide mission to the abyss? The writing is just so underwhelming and stupid for something that is supposed to be epic.

Simple. She is jealous of you.

As for the slog that the game becomes, you din't reached the worst parts. In my first run, I even lowered from core to normal in late chapter 5 since was hordes of building sized mythic demons after hordes of mythic demons and no place to rest...

 

[Humbaba]

If only Owlcat git gud at designing games, but alas.

Kingmaker was good though, I admit, after 30 million patches. It still had its issues, but overall as a complete package(with DLCs) the game was fun and I enjoyed the story and progression. In Wrath I couldn't care less if the demons get to sodomize everyone in Golorian because of my failings. And it seems nobody else care either since I think I defeated the main threat and saved Dresden after 1 or 2 months. Something the dumb Queen and her crusaders apparently couldn't do, and then she has the stomach to send me alone on a suicide mission to the abyss? The writing is just so underwhelming and stupid for something that is supposed to be epic.

So if the game actually made me care I would slog my way through Minhago and her buttbuddies too, like a fought through countless demons and one-shotting bosses before, but man, the game does not justify the time spent. It's so boring. Well, at least I united Lann with his mom.

I can give you advice on most encounters if you like. You on core?

 

[Alienman]

This all sounds like you are playing on too high difficulty for your knowledge of the game and rules. No shame in lowering the difficulty to what is fun for you. Kingmaker was easier on same difficulty name than WotR and most of us love it that we actually get some challenge even on non max difficulty.

Perhaps you are right, still I think the game has annoying design that could have been improved from Kingmaker and yes, it probably comes from Pathfinder rules itself and Owlcat can't do much about it. Like for an example how crit works. There is no real effort to it, like going behind your target or requiring stealth. I don't find it too fun seeing your tank or anyone else in melee go down to constant crit hits, it feels like no buffs, armor or equipment matters when your chars just melt anyway to any old random poking stick. And that there is no fleeing from encounters, which to me would have made the hard encounters more tolerable since it wouldn't constantly interrupt the flow with SAVE/RELOAD. You would get the encounter knowledge in a more natural way, or well, it would feel more natural to me instead of getting owned and then having to reload.

Doing fighting retreats could actually be a lot of fun when I think about it.

Simple. She is jealous of you.

As for the slog that the game becomes, you din't reached the worst parts. In my first run, I even lowered from core to normal in late chapter 5 since was hordes of building sized mythic demons after hordes of mythic demons and no place to rest...

Sounds like a pulled out just in the right time

I can give you advice on most encounters if you like. You on core?

I am, and thanks, but I'm just gonna shelf it for now and play something less rage-inducing

 

[Humbaba]

I can give you advice on most encounters if you like. You on core?

I am, and thanks, but I'm just gonna shelf it for now and play something less rage-inducing

Alright, but consider sirocco.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

I think this is the buggiest game I've ever played. Failing to see the point in having 200 archetypes when half the mechanics included are broken in one way or another. I am having fun, though, but still...

 

[Sergiu64]

I'm done with the game. Made it to the demon city and the game in general is just a uninteresting slog with places where the story is okay. It just never really picks up and makes you its bitch. It feels like I just meander around, fighting demons because I have to I guess, for some reason? Combat is a brutal drag. In every dungeon there is 50 demons hiding around every corner and they all rush you, or well, sometimes they stand back as archers and crit you for 1 billion damage during their 5 attack per turn, even your tank. AC, what is that now again? Real-time is so fucking messy I'm surprised it made it out this way, somehow it's even worse than Kingmaker. Playing it turn-based makes thing easier a bit, but if you want to be done with the game this century you have to play real-time.

The fight that finally broke me is the second Minhago fight. She has 20 or something bodyguards, all expert marksmen, and everyone crits all the time. They all have access to spells that take your party out of action. I mean, there is nothing more fun to sit around incapacitated for several rounds right? Then Minhago herself is an expert melee combatant. All this in a confined space. I recognize that I'm kinda DnD retarded and not some tactical min-maxing mastermind but seriously this game can fuck off with all these flow-stopping encounters. Jesus Christ.

And if that wasn't enough the whole crusade mechanic is broken (and kinda boring), but still somehow manage to be a vital part of the game. Unsure if Owlcat even play-tested this part. Going to feel good to cut this game loose to be honest, even if I wanted to finish it when I started to play a couple of days ago.

Think there's some mod outthere that autowins Crusade battles for you. The rest... why don't you look up some Youtube videos from leet theorycrafters. Think there's some dude that baisically has a full party on horseback with Scythes. They just charge in and one round all bosses. Might work for you.

 

[Humbaba]

So while Aivu is pretty cute and surprisingly not even useless in combat, I am not too fond of the first impressions of my "court", what with their "nuh uh we don't follow orders maaan" attitude but I'll wait and see. Will fight the urge to go Devil as long as I can.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I'm done with the game. Made it to the demon city and the game in general is just a uninteresting slog with places where the story is okay. It just never really picks up and makes you its bitch. It feels like I just meander around, fighting demons because I have to I guess, for some reason? Combat is a brutal drag. In every dungeon there is 50 demons hiding around every corner and they all rush you, or well, sometimes they stand back as archers and crit you for 1 billion damage during their 5 attack per turn, even your tank. AC, what is that now again? Real-time is so fucking messy I'm surprised it made it out this way, somehow it's even worse than Kingmaker. Playing it turn-based makes thing easier a bit, but if you want to be done with the game this century you have to play real-time.

The fight that finally broke me is the second Minhago fight. She has 20 or something bodyguards, all expert marksmen, and everyone crits all the time. They all have access to spells that take your party out of action. I mean, there is nothing more fun to sit around incapacitated for several rounds right? Then Minhago herself is an expert melee combatant. All this in a confined space. I recognize that I'm kinda DnD retarded and not some tactical min-maxing mastermind but seriously this game can fuck off with all these flow-stopping encounters. Jesus Christ.

And if that wasn't enough the whole crusade mechanic is broken (and kinda boring), but still somehow manage to be a vital part of the game. Unsure if Owlcat even play-tested this part. Going to feel good to cut this game loose to be honest, even if I wanted to finish it when I started to play a couple of days ago.

And it seems nobody else care either since I think I defeated the main threat and saved Dresden after 1 or 2 months. Something the dumb Queen and her crusaders apparently couldn't do, and then she has the stomach to send me alone on a suicide mission to the abyss? The writing is just so underwhelming and stupid for something that is supposed to be epic.

So if the game actually made me care I would slog my way through Minhago and her buttbuddies too, like a fought through countless demons and one-shotting bosses before, but man, the game does not justify the time spent. It's so boring. Well, at least I united Lann with his mom.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

These are all the reasons why I quit the game early on, yes.

The game makes you slog through dozens of over-tuned battles in every area...and for what? The completely retarded plot or stupid characters I doubt even the fanboys itt care about?

Your sole motivation for progressing the story is to see the numbers go up on your special snowflake spreadsheet character.

 

[mediocrepoet]

So while Aivu is pretty cute and surprisingly not even useless in combat, I am not too fond of the first impressions of my "court", what with their "nuh uh we don't follow orders maaan" attitude but I'll wait and see. Will fight the urge to go Devil as long as I can.

Did you expect chaotics to be orderly?

 

[gurugeorge]

So while Aivu is pretty cute and surprisingly not even useless in combat, I am not too fond of the first impressions of my "court", what with their "nuh uh we don't follow orders maaan" attitude but I'll wait and see. Will fight the urge to go Devil as long as I can.

Bunch a' fuckin' hippies.

Actually it's quite amusing at a point later in the game, the raggle-taggle crew comes together in the B plot of a quest. But yeah, the stuff at your court is a bit ... well, frankly, a bit poofy, as we used to say in the UK. Good abilities though, the Azata.

 

[LannTheStupid]

special snowflake spreadsheet character.

I have made a Google spreadsheet for buff calculations.

 

[Cryomancer]

Your sole motivation for progressing the story is to see the numbers go up on your special snowflake spreadsheet character.

I disagree. In lich mythic path I get as progressing :

• New undead companions
• New spells
• New interesting dialog options and interesting master of death themed quests
• Interesting events.
• Reactivity and lots of reactivity

Still inferior to kingmaker IMO.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Your sole motivation for progressing the story is to see the numbers go up on your special snowflake spreadsheet character.

I disagree. In lich mythic path I get as progressing :

• New undead companions
• New spells
• New interesting dialog options and interesting master of death themed quests
• Interesting events.
• Reactivity and lots of reactivity

Still inferior to kingmaker IMO.

If the undead companions were anything like the living ones, I think that's more a negative than a positive. Spells are just more spreadsheet numbers. Whatever edgy dialog/reactivity you're talking about is probably about as well-written as the companions and main plot.

The point is, I felt zero motivation to help either the city or my companions. The city was run by retarded degenerates. I would have burned it myself, or escaped it, not tried to save it. I imagine the entire country is like this from what others have said about the queen.

Motive is something quite a few games screw up on. You need to either give the player a reason not to just piss off inawoods and hunt rabbits for fun, or else give them the freedom to do so.

Daggerfall and other open-world games choose the latter option, while Baldur's Gate 2 makes everything deeply personal, giving you multiple reasons to find either Irenicus or Imoen throughout the game. Revenge, a desire for greater power, rescuing a childhood friend - take your pick.

BG1 blends the two concepts, giving the player the freedom to do what they want, but slowly works in a mystery that's deeply related to them, while gating areas behind certain quests. They give you multiple ways to get hooked into the main quest, whether it's helping Xzar, helping Jaheira, solving a mystery or just trying to clear the road to Baldur's Gate itself.

But then you have games like Wrath of the Tranny or Pillars of Eternal Boredom that completely forget to give the player any motivation whatsoever, or else don't give much of a clear one. I guess you can't escape the city? Is that it? Is that why you don't take the completely obvious decision of fleeing the city and leaving the idiotic orc and her tranny husband that allowed the city to be invaded to deal with it on their own?

 

[Cryomancer]

If the undead companions were anything like the living ones, I think that's more a negative than a positive.

I disagree. Delamere, Ciar, Kestoglyr and Trever are very cool.

Spells are just more spreadsheet numbers

No, they aren't merely numbers. Pick domain of the hungry flesh for eg, it deals attribute damage, holds enemies and deal damage, other spells deal damage and heal yourself, others give undead templates to enemies, but the point of Lich is to be a might necromancer. If you wanna more party supporting spells, Azata is the best.

What is cool about evil mythic paths is that you can fuck with this retarded NPCs really hard.

Anyway, as I've said to you, if you aren't into power fantasy, there are little to no good things in this game. You don't even need to compare to BG1/2. PF:KM is way better. Lacrymas said that this is the WORST tabletop adventure path. After reading a bit about other APs, I think that he is right. I wish that OwlCat choses their next game a AP to adapt which ends around lv 15. lv 15 is not weak. Adult Red Dragons are CR 13, lv 15 is exactly the level cap of Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager, a game where you fight a freaking Tarrasque(and 2E one, not the dumbed down 5E). "but you like high level stuff", yes, but is not easy to DM or design a high level game. And both Pathfinder Games(kingmaker and wrath) has a serious problem with slog of boring enemies on levels 15+.The difference is that you can reach lv 15 way quicker in this game compared to kingmaker. If Owlcat was capable to create cool high level encounters, then I would have a different opinion.

See in this thread how many people here dropped the game in act 4. My chapter 5 legend guy is level 33 and soon will reach lv 40. Karsus which is the strongest mortal who ever lived, a Genius among Geniuses is lv 42.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Every game has "spreadsheet numbers" at its heart. Moreover, every game is just 1's and 0's combined and interpreted in different ways. So if one wants to reduce gaming to this then yes, there are no good games, and one might as well play Lunar Lander or Pong. There is no principal difference.

Some people can make "suspension of disbelief" and take pleasure from games, and some people cannot. I think on a gaming forum it does not make sense to communicate with the latter.

 

[Nikanuur]

What bothers me is that the Gargoyles are inexplicably able to airstrike into a fucking cave. Like was there just a big hole in the ceiling and absolutely no one noticed?

I didn't get that one either. I always construed there was no ceiling, and it was a large crevice or something.

 

[Nikanuur]

You don't even need to compare to BG1/2. PF:KM is way better. .

Pff, you have just been found guilty of defaming Boo. You'd better hide very quick and for a long time, Minsc won't be as gentle!

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Anybody saying that this game is "spreadsheet numbers" is really overstating how complex the 3.5 system is

 

[Cryomancer]

You don't even need to compare to BG1/2. PF:KM is way better. .

Pff, you have just been found guilty of defaming Boo. You'd better hide very quick and for a long time, Minsc won't be as gentle!

Never defamed Boo.

Anybody saying that this game is "spreadsheet numbers" is really overstating how complex the 3.5 system is

Yep. 3.5E is not a complex system. Complex system is FATAL and by the way, roll for anal circumference!!!

 

[Nikanuur]

You don't even need to compare to BG1/2. PF:KM is way better. .

Pff, you have just been found guilty of defaming Boo. You'd better hide very quick and for a long time, Minsc won't be as gentle!

Never defamed Boo.

And Jaheira and Candlekeep librarian too, you red-handed hobgoblin!