Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[EdgyRightWinger]

Does this game has woke content?

Less than BG3.

More than any other D&D/PF game in history.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Place a level cap on a chapter per chapter basis.

Having level-ups tied to chapter milestones is a great way to figure out if your players are actually enjoying the game. Taking the dopamine hit from leveling-up off of the table really changes their motivations.

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius you really like the HOMM mini crusade game more than the kingdom management card thing? Why?

I like them both.

They’re both unfinished because people talked themselves (really each other because your generations are so mind-numbingly conformist) into hating them so there was no reason to put resources into completing them, including fixing obvious bugs for people who actually wanted to play them.

Crusade never had a chance because you’d already worked yourselves into a frenzy hating KM so couldn’t wait to get the gang back together. Game came with a full tutorial unlike KM but didn’t matter.

Ironically bringing this up is what got me banned by Owlcat themselves (on internal forum and Steam). Some guy gave a detailed review of Wrath that was overwhelmingly positive then added a perfunctory slam of Crusade with no specifics and I replied pointing that out and telling him that a balanced review wasn’t an actual requirement and that he didn’t have to slam the Crusade if he didn’t have strong feeling one way or another. He lost his shit, reported, and permaban for epistemological crime.

 

[ga♥]

Desiderius you really like the HOMM mini crusade game more than the kingdom management card thing? Why?

I like them both.

They’re both unfinished because people talked themselves (really each other because your generations are so mind-numbingly conformist) into hating them so there was no reason to put resources into completing them, including fixing obvious bugs for people who actually wanted to play them.

Crusade never had a chance because you’d already worked yourselves into a frenzy hating KM so couldn’t wait to get the gang back together. Game came with a full tutorial unlike KM but didn’t matter.

Ironically bringing this up is what got me banned by Owlcat themselves (on internal forum and Steam). Some guy gave a detailed review of Wrath that was overwhelmingly positive then added a perfunctory slam of Crusade with no specifics and I replied pointing that out and telling him that a balanced review wasn’t an actual requirement and that he didn’t have to slam the Crusade if he didn’t have strong feeling one way or another. He lost his shit, reported, and permaban for epistemological crime.

I like the cards thing and hate the crusader mini game.
It is completely unfinished, it has no challenge, late game it becomes 1 spell from a mage general = win and feels for the most part disconnected from the game.

Card game was a necessity in kingmaker, the writing was akshualy good, taking time and effort to have "problem" resolution written in a different way based on what advisor you had, and it had a (simple) logic behind it keeping it "challeging" the whole game (DC increasing).
As you say, on the other hand it is much easier to fail the card game (with more serious consequences) with no way to come back if you fugged up at start, but the problem is the lack of tutorial.

I think people can't really compare the two.

 

[Desiderius]

I think the card game endgame feels irrelevant if you play it reasonably well because that was the way to catch up.

They correctly figured out that the haters hated KM because they sucked at it. But the hate boner was too strong for those people to learn how Crusade even worked despite the tutorial, so they felt like they had to give faceroll option to keep them from blowing up the game. No return on investment in fulfilling original vision.

 

[scytheavatar]

Card game wasn't the main problem of Kingmaker, it's the whole Artisan system which drives me mad and make me not want to replay Kingmaker. That and HATEOT. The fact that the best items in the game are locked behind RNG isn't acceptable in any way.

 

[Rhobar121]

If Owlcat knows that players don't like their stupid "additional mechanics", why do they stubbornly continue with them?
Are they so afraid that their game will be too well received and that it will raise players' expectations? Because I don't see any other reason.
Does any of Sawyer's relatives work at Owlcat? This would explain why they don't want the player to have fun playing their game.
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is stupid.
Instead of crappy additional mechanics, let them focus on refining the game and eventually they will be as successful as Larian, because despite the defective systems, Owlcat games are good.
Their games are good despite crappy systems, not because of them.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I think the kingdom management aspects were just fine in KM. It emphasized that you were building a kingdom. Not just some mercenary for hire in someone else's ambitions. While I would have handled advisors differently, the only serious sin is its opaqueness in how the stats interact and how regions are unlocked.

WotR HoMM layer was just dull. They spent all this time creating an engine to have complex pathfinder battles, then make the player engage in a simplistic and inferior combat game. I understand the point was to give the player general-like duties, but I can't say that my experience was that of a general. Only chapter 2 gives that impression, which ends with the excellent capture mission of Drezen. After that, it's pure investigation. The speed-bump strategic layer just gets in the way at that point.

 

[Desiderius]

If Owlcat knows that players don't like their stupid "additional mechanics", why do they stubbornly continue with them?
Are they so afraid that their game will be too well received and that it will raise players' expectations? Because I don't see any other reason.
Does any of Sawyer's relatives work at Owlcat? This would explain why they don't want the player to have fun playing their game.
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is stupid.
Instead of crappy additional mechanics, let them focus on refining the game and eventually they will be as successful as Larian, because despite the defective systems, Owlcat games are good.
Their games are good despite crappy systems, not because of them.

They’re not additional. You’re playing some game in your head, not the game the devs made. The King part of Kingmaker is not Arcomage.

 

[razvedchiki]

should i focus evocation from the start with a blaster build or go CC and then blaster with the help of mythic abilities?

 

[Max Damage]

Both of the games' overworld mechanics reek of a designer that wanted to do something but was too afraid that players wouldn't like it and so made it easier and simpler at every turn. But WotR moreso than Kingmaker.

Both Crusade and KM suffer from being undercooked and overstaying their welcome, it's just pointless filler between stuff that's actually good. They should've either cut them down to bare essentials or expanded to the fullest potential. KM is pointless moneysink outside of artisans, Crusade feels like mobile HoMM knock-off for idiots.

 

[Rhobar121]

should i focus evocation from the start with a blaster build or go CC and then blaster with the help of mythic abilities?

Spell Focus does virtually nothing if you focus on ray spells.
You could go full eldritch knight to improve your hit chances and for a very good capstone

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Just finshed Lich path. The end is absolute nuts and becoming basicily the End game Boss of a RPG is kinda power trip no other RPG does as well as this one. Zacharius and Urgathoa are my homies , fuck Pharasma.

But fuck those Gallu in the Threesehold.

 

[Camel]

If Owlcat knows that players don't like their stupid "additional mechanics", why do they stubbornly continue with them?
Are they so afraid that their game will be too well received and that it will raise players' expectations? Because I don't see any other reason.
Does any of Sawyer's relatives work at Owlcat? This would explain why they don't want the player to have fun playing their game.
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is stupid.
Instead of crappy additional mechanics, let them focus on refining the game and eventually they will be as successful as Larian, because despite the defective systems, Owlcat games are good.
Their games are good despite crappy systems, not because of them.

Owlcat added "additional mechanics" the third time in Rogue Trader - ship combat. Someone in the top management forces it.

 

[Desiderius]

should i focus evocation from the start with a blaster build or go CC and then blaster with the help of mythic abilities?

Spell Focus does virtually nothing if you focus on ray spells.
You could go full eldritch knight to improve your hit chances and for a very good capstone

Blaster is about stacking Metamagic. Magi get an extra layer with Arcana.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Owlcat added "additional mechanics" the third time in Rogue Trader - ship combat. Someone in the top management forces it.

Takes $4,99 development time and makes the game llonger.

 

[Rhobar121]

Owlcat added "additional mechanics" the third time in Rogue Trader - ship combat. Someone in the top management forces it.

Takes $4,99 development time and makes the game llonger.

As if it would make any difference in the SP game.

 

[processdaemon]

If Owlcat knows that players don't like their stupid "additional mechanics", why do they stubbornly continue with them?
Are they so afraid that their game will be too well received and that it will raise players' expectations? Because I don't see any other reason.
Does any of Sawyer's relatives work at Owlcat? This would explain why they don't want the player to have fun playing their game.
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is stupid.
Instead of crappy additional mechanics, let them focus on refining the game and eventually they will be as successful as Larian, because despite the defective systems, Owlcat games are good.
Their games are good despite crappy systems, not because of them.

There are probably enough people like me who like their supplementary systems and say so in the beta surveys that they underestimate how many people hate them.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

But fuck those Gallu in the Threesehold.

I finally got some good use out of the rod which lets you ignore immunity. Weird to the rescue!

 

[Desiderius]

Just gotta beat those fat fucks down hard.

 

[razvedchiki]

should i focus evocation from the start with a blaster build or go CC and then blaster with the help of mythic abilities?

Spell Focus does virtually nothing if you focus on ray spells.
You could go full eldritch knight to improve your hit chances and for a very good capstone

eldritch knight is for melee correct? i was thinking of a full wizard build, i remember from kingmaker that it was better to start with conjuration CC spells then use evocation.
with the mythic abilities that allow to bypass mob resistance to energy damage whould a mage focusing on evocation from the start be more viable? something like a crossbloded sorc.

 

[scytheavatar]

should i focus evocation from the start with a blaster build or go CC and then blaster with the help of mythic abilities?

Spell Focus does virtually nothing if you focus on ray spells.
You could go full eldritch knight to improve your hit chances and for a very good capstone

eldritch knight is for melee correct? i was thinking of a full wizard build, i remember from kingmaker that it was better to start with conjuration CC spells then use evocation.
with the mythic abilities that allow to bypass mob resistance to energy damage whould a mage focusing on evocation from the start be more viable? something like a crossbloded sorc.

The meta for WOTR is different from that of Kingmaker. In WOTR there is usually 1-2 boss level enemy that you want to kill in turn 1, after you kill them the rest of the critters are folders which are easy to kill. Because of that relying on single target rays spells (Mainly Scorching and Helfire Rays) beats relying on spells on Chain Lightning that allows saves. If you are playing blind and without guides you can also forget about having enough DC for the latter parts of the game cause the demons from chapter 4 onwards have ridiculous save throw bonuses. While you can rely on stuff like domains to boast your hit chances for ray spells.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

should i focus evocation from the start with a blaster build or go CC and then blaster with the help of mythic abilities?

Spell Focus does virtually nothing if you focus on ray spells.
You could go full eldritch knight to improve your hit chances and for a very good capstone

eldritch knight is for melee correct? i was thinking of a full wizard build, i remember from kingmaker that it was better to start with conjuration CC spells then use evocation.
with the mythic abilities that allow to bypass mob resistance to energy damage whould a mage focusing on evocation from the start be more viable? something like a crossbloded sorc.

I've always treated EK like a wizard that can sweep trash mobs with weapons (or CC then melee a threat), but most players treat it like a fighter with tons of buffs and the occasional offensive spell. I splashed crossblooded sorc on my AT (Trickster mythic) and it was VERY potent for blasting, but that's not what a EK is optimal for. Illusion gets great mileage in WotR. Conjuration is great early on (Grease, Web, Glitterdust, Haste), but I honestly don't miss it much when I play as an illusion Thassolin specialist. Your mythic path will determine what schools you are optimal more than anything else really.

 

[Average Manatee]

Personally I don't see the point of EK for ray spells. The amount of extra AB that BAB grants you is not a big deal in WotR. You'll barely notice a single +5 when there's a half dozen buffs that can give +10-15 each. The point of higher BAB in WotR is to get more attacks and higher power attack damage bonuses. If your build doesn't take advantage of either of those then EK is a poor investment. His capstone is really rather mediocre and not consistently useful. Crits on ray attacks are rather rare and can't be relied upon except with extremely specific builds and if you're in melee and crit then most likely your target is dead so why worry? If quickening is important enough to you then you should just be using a rod.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Owlcat added "additional mechanics" the third time in Rogue Trader - ship combat. Someone in the top management forces it.

Takes $4,99 development time and makes the game llonger.

As if it would make any difference in the SP game.

Make the game artificially long and the reviewers can't get to second part of the game that's broken as fuck before the deadline for review is up.

*taps forehead*