Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Fedora Master]

Friendly reminder that only autistic buildfags and Slavs defend this game.

 

[Haplo]

STR vs DEX:

You're looking at a difference of +2 (Kit gives +1 DEX -1 STR bonus) out of 50 or whatever. You start slow but by the time all the buffs and group abilities kick in it's not that big of a difference. And you'll run into Reach issues fighting Reduced on a Growth Mount.

That is just the thing, though. Going Str, I'd likely need to abuse the stacking "feature" of Frightful Aspect/Legendary Proportions AND Reduce to get a Size Str bonus (but also a penalty from Reduce) and still be able to mount a Large mount. Which kinda feels like bug abuse. I don't want a bigger mount then large, since huge and bigger models are very problematic for charges: more restrictive charge corridors, easier to bodyblock, easier to get stuck in clutter/debris AND need to have greater distance from the enemy to even initiate the Charge.

From my limited testing, attacking Small under Reduce on a Large (post level 7 and/or with Animal Growth) should work. And with a BFT, I can get +4 and eventually even +6 Dex from Reduce.
Of course, having more then 1 enemy in range is still problematic. The only solution to that would be a reach weapon, I guess. Been there, done that.

Think I like:
10 19 14 14 14 7-8 (don't remember Cha now)

 

[Haplo]

Friendly reminder that only autistic buildfags and Slavs defend this game.

Its a buildfag's and combatfag's heaven, why are you surprised?

 

[Seari]

I was thinking about a charge build with Mounted Mastery + Animal Growth + Lich Undead Mount + Lord Beyond The Grave, to get some insane mount Str bonuses going. Also Death Rush.

I refuse to play a furry though, which is why I don't play charge builds.

 

[Desiderius]

STR vs DEX:

You're looking at a difference of +2 (Kit gives +1 DEX -1 STR bonus) out of 50 or whatever. You start slow but by the time all the buffs and group abilities kick in it's not that big of a difference. And you'll run into Reach issues fighting Reduced on a Growth Mount.

That is just the thing, though. Going Str, I'd likely need to abuse the stacking "feature" of Frightful Aspect/Legendary Proportions AND Reduce to get a Size Str bonus (but also a penalty from Reduce) and still be able to mount a Large mount. Which kinda feels like bug abuse. I don't want a bigger mount then large, since huge and bigger models are very problematic for charges: more restrictive charge corridors, easier to bodyblock, easier to get stuck in clutter/debris AND need to have greater distance from the enemy to even initiate the Charge.

From my limited testing, attacking Small under Reduce on a Large (post level 7 and/or with Animal Growth) should work. And with a BFT, I can get +4 and eventually even +6 Dex from Reduce.
Of course, having more then 1 enemy in range is still problematic. The only solution to that would be a reach weapon, I guess. Been there, done that.

Think I like:
10 19 14 14 14 7-8 (don't remember Cha now)

As I was saying, you've got enough damage sources that you can pick and choose. I ended up giving up Proportions after I got used to not using it when the Bone supply was limited. Seems kind of exploitish itself with how it's implemented. You'd have (Enlarge + Lead Blades) x Spirited Doubling x crit multiplier x iteratives without it. I'd be tempted to try Two-bladed Sword.

And there are so many other damage sources like Force from Bane/Edge, Holy from Instrument of Freedom/items, Divine from Mythics, ad infinitum that I never even bothered picking up DEX-to-damage on Reg even though he was fighting Reduced. If you're determined to get Reduced that would be the perfect time to give Leopard a spin, but your SS wouldn't have the pet until lvl 4 so you'd lose the main benefit. Leopard from lvl 1 makes higher difficulty Maze much less of a pain.

What is a BFT?

 

[Desiderius]

I was thinking about a charge build with Mounted Mastery + Animal Growth + Lich Undead Mount + Lord Beyond The Grave, to get some insane mount Str bonuses going. Also Death Rush.

I refuse to play a furry though, which is why I don't play charge builds.

Get a Skald Merc to give you the Pounces. Can always splash Barb10 like I did with Amiri lol.

 

[Desiderius]

Friendly reminder that only autistic buildfags and Slavs defend this game.

Who's defending it? Defending it from what?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

100% straight, based g*rmans.

 

[Haplo]

STR vs DEX:

You're looking at a difference of +2 (Kit gives +1 DEX -1 STR bonus) out of 50 or whatever. You start slow but by the time all the buffs and group abilities kick in it's not that big of a difference. And you'll run into Reach issues fighting Reduced on a Growth Mount.

That is just the thing, though. Going Str, I'd likely need to abuse the stacking "feature" of Frightful Aspect/Legendary Proportions AND Reduce to get a Size Str bonus (but also a penalty from Reduce) and still be able to mount a Large mount. Which kinda feels like bug abuse. I don't want a bigger mount then large, since huge and bigger models are very problematic for charges: more restrictive charge corridors, easier to bodyblock, easier to get stuck in clutter/debris AND need to have greater distance from the enemy to even initiate the Charge.

From my limited testing, attacking Small under Reduce on a Large (post level 7 and/or with Animal Growth) should work. And with a BFT, I can get +4 and eventually even +6 Dex from Reduce.
Of course, having more then 1 enemy in range is still problematic. The only solution to that would be a reach weapon, I guess. Been there, done that.

Think I like:
10 19 14 14 14 7-8 (don't remember Cha now)

As I was saying, you've got enough damage sources that you can pick and choose. I ended up giving up Proportions after I got used to not using it when the Bone supply was limited. Seems kind of exploitish itself with how it's implemented. You'd have (Enlarge + Lead Blades) x Spirited Doubling x crit multiplier x iteratives without it. I'd be tempted to try Two-bladed Sword.

And there are so many other damage sources like Force from Bane/Edge, Holy from Instrument of Freedom/items, Divine from Mythics, ad infinitum that I never even bothered picking up DEX-to-damage on Reg even though he was fighting Reduced. If you're determined to get Reduced that would be the perfect time to give Leopard a spin, but your SS wouldn't have the pet until lvl 4 so you'd lose the main benefit. Leopard from lvl 1 makes higher difficulty Maze much less of a pain.

What is a BFT?

Thought about Leopard but... need to wait to mount and worse, need to ALWAYS fight Reduced to mount.
Sucky position to be in if buffs run out or get dispelled...

Plus needs additional feats on Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers (trades for Barding, I guess). Gets kinda stuck with Amulets of Agile fists (so can't benefit from Half of the Pair). Doesn't benefit much from Animal Growth. And I think still ends with worse CMB then a Dog/Wolf.

As for Size buffs, already mentioned I want to avoid growing my mount even bigger. Its really bad for charging opportunities. So cannot use Enlarged/LP weapons either (if I double-stack Reduce on top of Frightful/LP, I land with a Small model and Small weapon size - but keep the Str, AC, Shaken effects).
Therefore Double sword idea is intriguing - but not for mounted Charging.

BFT is Brown Fur Transmuter. Don't leave home without one

 

[Haplo]

I was thinking about a charge build with Mounted Mastery + Animal Growth + Lich Undead Mount + Lord Beyond The Grave, to get some insane mount Str bonuses going. Also Death Rush.

I refuse to play a furry though, which is why I don't play charge builds.

Get a Skald Merc to give you the Pounces. Can always splash Barb10 like I did with Amiri lol.

It blocks all spellcasting, though. Also spell-like abilities, including mobility tools.
Unless YOU play the Skald...

 

[Fedora Master]

Friendly reminder that only autistic buildfags and Slavs defend this game.

Who's defending it? Defending it from what?

Came slinking back, huh? Owlcat forums and Reddit couldn't handle your 'tism?

 

[Humbaba]

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Listen autist, your antisocial kind is fundamentally unable to comprehend anything that doesn't involve numbers so I'll go easy on you.

Hot chix are irredeemably evil is a cope that goes well beyond IDPOL

The autist claimed, without actually stating how and why that "cope" does not fall under idpol because it very clearly does.

You gotta have some real brain damage (autism/homosexuality) to 1. make your sexuality part of your identity and 2. feel offended by some purely imagined jab at the members of your sexuality gang.

It’s the (((people))) who fund games

lel

Of course Gheybor kills shit, so does every other companion if you don’t suck, it’s just by the time he shows up you’re already flooded with two-weapon and he doesn’t bring any spells or skills you need to the table

Imagine complaining about a non-caster not bringing spells. Sounds like your party composition sucks ass, which is odd, I thought autists were good at calculating things. I suppose you're of the low-functioning sort.

flooded with two-weapon

"THERE CAN ONLY BE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF TWO WEAPONS IN MY PARTY NOT MORE NOT LESS" - an autist.

his storyline is way underdeveloped

Since you've provided no arguments to base this claim on I can just say "No" and move on.

Wend is just looking for her next dom or whatever.

The old video essayist rhetorical trick of simplifying whatever you're arguing against, very popular among autists.

tl;dr autists can't into writing, what else is new.

 

[Desiderius]

STR vs DEX:

You're looking at a difference of +2 (Kit gives +1 DEX -1 STR bonus) out of 50 or whatever. You start slow but by the time all the buffs and group abilities kick in it's not that big of a difference. And you'll run into Reach issues fighting Reduced on a Growth Mount.

That is just the thing, though. Going Str, I'd likely need to abuse the stacking "feature" of Frightful Aspect/Legendary Proportions AND Reduce to get a Size Str bonus (but also a penalty from Reduce) and still be able to mount a Large mount. Which kinda feels like bug abuse. I don't want a bigger mount then large, since huge and bigger models are very problematic for charges: more restrictive charge corridors, easier to bodyblock, easier to get stuck in clutter/debris AND need to have greater distance from the enemy to even initiate the Charge.

From my limited testing, attacking Small under Reduce on a Large (post level 7 and/or with Animal Growth) should work. And with a BFT, I can get +4 and eventually even +6 Dex from Reduce.
Of course, having more then 1 enemy in range is still problematic. The only solution to that would be a reach weapon, I guess. Been there, done that.

Think I like:
10 19 14 14 14 7-8 (don't remember Cha now)

As I was saying, you've got enough damage sources that you can pick and choose. I ended up giving up Proportions after I got used to not using it when the Bone supply was limited. Seems kind of exploitish itself with how it's implemented. You'd have (Enlarge + Lead Blades) x Spirited Doubling x crit multiplier x iteratives without it. I'd be tempted to try Two-bladed Sword.

And there are so many other damage sources like Force from Bane/Edge, Holy from Instrument of Freedom/items, Divine from Mythics, ad infinitum that I never even bothered picking up DEX-to-damage on Reg even though he was fighting Reduced. If you're determined to get Reduced that would be the perfect time to give Leopard a spin, but your SS wouldn't have the pet until lvl 4 so you'd lose the main benefit. Leopard from lvl 1 makes higher difficulty Maze much less of a pain.

What is a BFT?

Thought about Leopard but... need to wait to mount and worse, need to ALWAYS fight Reduced to mount.
Sucky position to be in if buffs run out or get dispelled...

Plus needs additional feats on Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers (trades for Barding, I guess). Gets kinda stuck with Amulets of Agile fists (so can't benefit from Half of the Pair). Doesn't benefit much from Animal Growth. And I think still ends with worse CMB then a Dog/Wolf.

As for Size buffs, already mentioned I want to avoid growing my mount even bigger. Its really bad for charging opportunities. So cannot use Enlarged/LP weapons either (if I double-stack Raduce on top of Frightful/LP, I land with a Small model and Small weapon size - but keep the Str, AC, Shaken effects).
Therefore Double sword idea is intriguing - but not for mounted Charging.

BFT is Brown Fur Transmuter. Don't leave home without one

BFT bonus works on Enlarge too. Don't need to be Reduced to Mount Growthed Leopard but yeah probably a waste, but Dispel is no biggie you can recast/use potion and doesn't happen often, especially when you can port in to disrupt dispellers.

Leopard gets DEX-to-damage for free when it grows so doesn't need Agile Fists. It ends up with Slightly worse CMB although you get more from Fury's Fall so should be comparable most of the game, and it lets you save the Relic for Seelah's Horse.

I thought the reason that you were playing non-Horse was so you could use Animal Growth without changing the model size? Anyway moot point for Leopard.

 

[Haplo]

BFT bonus works on Enlarge too. Don't need to be Reduced to Mount Growthed Leopard but yeah probably a waste, but Dispel is no biggie you can recast/use potion and doesn't happen often, especially when you can port in to disrupt dispellers.

Leopard gets DEX-to-damage for free when it grows so doesn't need Agile Fists. It ends up with Slightly worse CMB although you get more from Fury's Fall so should be comparable most of the game, and it lets you save the Relic for Seelah's Horse.

I thought the reason that you were playing non-Horse was so you could use Animal Growth without changing the model size? Anyway moot point for Leopard.

I think you do need to be Reduced to mount Leopard as a Kitsune. Leopard starts Small and grows Medium, doesn't it? Mount need to be one category bigger then rider.

Interesting info about getting Dex-to-Damage for free.
Of course Pounce is also nice.

 

[Desiderius]

From a philosophical standpoint - that pleasurably has ended up for me with more effective gameplay in the PF games, which is why I'm so high on the Paizo/PF ruleset - I like to figure out what each subclass was designed to do, especially the ones that look bad because sometimes those big tradeoffs are hiding a big payoff, and try to match that with some playstyle I was wanting to try out.

Pretty sure that's exactly the case with Divine Hunter and this Hopping Pouncer you're proposing since it gives you everything you need for the concept right up front no fuss no muss so you can focus on selecting Mythics that accentuate what you're wanting to do rather than just getting to where Divine Hunter already is. One level of a full BAB dip unlocks Vulpine Pounce at lvl 13 without burning a Mythic, 4 can get you to lvl 12. I would get Precise Companion modded to give pet Outflank or wait for Owlcat to change it.

Aeon/Sanctified Slayer would also be a blast to play but I think the niche there is for a ranged character to take full advantage of all the rounds of Bane you'd have since ranged doesn't get Edge and ranged gets to land many more attacks per round since it doesn't have to move. With each of those attacks having a Dispel, Greater on them (and with the change to Mythic ability DCs) I think you'd pretty much be able to strip all relevant enemy buffs in one round, which takes great advantage of INQ WIS to initiative. You'd be attacking things that aren't flanked yet so plan on a source of concealment/invis, which will also help you hit and turns on Studied. There's a med armor that adds six force to all attacks from invis in ch4.

 

[Desiderius]

[I think you do need to be Reduced to mount Leopard as a Kitsune. Leopard starts Small and grows Medium, doesn't it? Mount need to be one category bigger then rider.

Interesting info about getting Dex-to-Damage for free.
Of course Pounce is also nice.

Yeah you'd be Reduced anyway for BFT + DEX-based. Biggest benefit is playing a full pet class and having that extra (very tanky/stealthy) body for Maze then the rest of Kenabres. You wouldn't mount until later.

 

[ga♥]

Finished the DLC, took me nearly 11 hours, how did you do it in 5 hours Daidre

I was playing on Core in RTwP and don't regret the choices I've made with hirelings and MC - Hunter, Mad Dog barbarian, standard Witch and Ecclesitheurge cleric filled with Extra Channeling. I also had xp sharing off for the theater so I hit lvl 3 right before getting 3 extra people. And with 30+ AC leopards under Mage Armor and Protective Luck I was able to brute force many things without using skill check bypasses. And Sleeping Hex from Witch with 20 Int is brutal.
My achievements bugged out too, so I was progressing naturally instead of trying to check all possible variants, as I usually do(

Hitting lvl 3 before the catacombs is huuuuge, compared to doing it at lvl 1 (at what level did you finish? 6? without disabling xp sharing at start I ended at lvl 5 doing everything exept Frada's).
I assume you took off the cultits in the theatre too.
Well if I replay it, to get Frada and see her quest, I will get a wizard as MC or merc, as having grease asap and haste later seem very good (also selective web, especialy in the rich sector).
I managed to kill the demon in front of defender heart save-load scumming until it failed a reflex save on grease (on hard), as I thought 0 rewards, just some XP that you could get with the other ways too.

 

[Daidre]

I assume you took off the cultits in the theatre too.

No, even my kitty was not good enough for it. My best attempt had only one of them left standing but whole thig is crazy random and initiative dependent so I grew tired of it fast. I did took out sleeping cultists though.
Chances would have been better with Silvan Sorc, for example, for grease and Mage armor on kitty, I may try it again when they'll fix achievements.

 

[Haplo]

[I think you do need to be Reduced to mount Leopard as a Kitsune. Leopard starts Small and grows Medium, doesn't it? Mount need to be one category bigger then rider.

Interesting info about getting Dex-to-Damage for free.
Of course Pounce is also nice.

Yeah you'd be Reduced anyway for BFT + DEX-based. Biggest benefit is playing a full pet class and having that extra (very tanky/stealthy) body for Maze then the rest of Kenabres. You wouldn't mount until later.

Hmm, it seems leopard actually grows Medium already at level 4. Maybe I need to take it for a test ride.
Having a Medium sized mount could be really nice for the Mounted Charges.
Pounce would be a plus if I ever take Leading Strikes.

 

[ga♥]

So, anyone played a Demon...? How is it content wise? As quests, reactivity, etc.

 

[Sarathiour]

So, anyone played a Demon...? How is it content wise? As quests, reactivity, etc.

Currently trough it.

Spoiler

You're going to demon city way earlier than anyone else, but you're obviously severely locked out of zone.
Few people will outright refuse to work for few, like Ciar
It lock me into a mandatory evil response in wintersun
Noctula mandate you for an investigation of areelu, you're given a sample of her blood to reveal her hidden cache inside demon city guestoom, that you can also use once you go to her labotary.
Crusade option seems bugged, I received a special spell for all my general, which got a special animation, but they forget to put the actual effect, so it does jack shit.

 

[ga♥]

So, anyone played a Demon...? How is it content wise? As quests, reactivity, etc.

Currently trough it.

Spoiler

You're going to demon city way earlier than anyone else, but you're obviously severely locked out of zone.
Few people will outright refuse to work for few, like Ciar
It lock me into a mandatory evil response in wintersun
Noctula mandate you for an investigation of areelu, you're given a sample of her blood to reveal her hidden cache inside demon city guestoom, that you can also use once you go to her labotary.
Crusade option seems bugged, I received a special spell for all my general, which got a special animation, but they forget to put the actual effect, so it does jack shit.

Do you feel it has enough unique content?

 

[Saravan]

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Listen autist, your antisocial kind is fundamentally unable to comprehend anything that doesn't involve numbers so I'll go easy on you.

Hot chix are irredeemably evil is a cope that goes well beyond IDPOL

The autist claimed, without actually stating how and why that "cope" does not fall under idpol because it very clearly does.

You gotta have some real brain damage (autism/homosexuality) to 1. make your sexuality part of your identity and 2. feel offended by some purely imagined jab at the members of your sexuality gang.

It’s the (((people))) who fund games

lel

Of course Gheybor kills shit, so does every other companion if you don’t suck, it’s just by the time he shows up you’re already flooded with two-weapon and he doesn’t bring any spells or skills you need to the table

Imagine complaining about a non-caster not bringing spells. Sounds like your party composition sucks ass, which is odd, I thought autists were good at calculating things. I suppose you're of the low-functioning sort.

flooded with two-weapon

"THERE CAN ONLY BE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF TWO WEAPONS IN MY PARTY NOT MORE NOT LESS" - an autist.

his storyline is way underdeveloped

Since you've provided no arguments to base this claim on I can just say "No" and move on.

Wend is just looking for her next dom or whatever.

The old video essayist rhetorical trick of simplifying whatever you're arguing against, very popular among autists.

tl;dr autists can't into writing, what else is new.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with Desiderius, but if you even remotely try to defend the clown companions in this game you should delete your browser.

 

[Sarathiour]

Do you feel it has enough unique content?

At this point at would rather have content THAT ACTUALLY WORK AS INTENDED .

 

[Daidre]

So, anyone played a Demon...? How is it content wise? As quests, reactivity, etc.

Lot of unique content, but it distribution is uneven:
- no standouts comparing to other paths in ch 3
- ch 4 is very cool, imho, demon got more reactivity here than trickster in the whole game
- ch 5 is weird, some cool unique scenes but content kinda clashes with generic parts of the chapter.
RP wise it got two distinctive lines with different endings and ties very well into main story.

All in all, one of the most content-rich paths. Did not have many bugs at 1.2, but there is one nasty nasty bug in chapter 5 that breaks your mythic line if you chose to delay it's resolution. And that damn bug was haunting the game since release.