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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Finished DLC2 on Core. It is a low level campaign for Level 1 - 5 (practically 1 - 4 as the 5th level happens in like the last 3% of the DLC). As people pointed out, combat is largely optional and gives no EXP altho some of them do give decent items in context of the campaign.

The DLC2 focus in general is about resource utilization. This comes with the usual consumables but compared to main campaign there are 2 big difference. The first one are two unique items, Tools and Ropes, both can be used to interact with environment to avoid fight/get behind enemy lines for advantageous position or triggering environment kills switch (falling boulder ,etc)/get some decent items. They are in limited supply and thus considering when to use them is main attraction. The 2nd is Limiting Rest due to NPC mechanic. Throughout your journey in DLC2 you will meet cast of NPC that will help your party during Storybook Sequence (those small CYOA things). During those, they could get ailments that reduce their health and every rest will result in those ailments progressing worse and worse potentially killing them. Removing the ailment requires Scroll of Remove Disease (Circle 3 Cleric spells thus you won't get them normally ingame as it is largely Level 1 - 4) which is designed as another limited resource. This encourage players to minimize rest as much as possible if you do care to keep them alive.

Now in practice the DLC is still very combat heavy outside the first hour. Soon you will get to 5 party (MC, Rogue companion, 3 mercs {default are Fighter, Slayer, Cleric}) and then get the last party member (Sorc companion). Within scope of Core difficulty, using Tools and Rope as needed, it is fairly easy to basically just clear every map within boundary of 1 rest per major area. I would assume playing DLC in Hard would be really hard and Unfair, unfair if you really want to keep everybody alive. Some encounter can be bruteforced in Core but I would assume you will really2 need to skip or Kill Switch those in Hard/Unfair.

Narrative wise, there is more happening than meet the eye which is revealed in some part of the story. The companions are incredibly cliched, voice acting is very floaty to point of almost parody. The DLC ends after you get to the Tavern and Tavern attack commences.

The DLC actually ends in cliffhanger/TBC scree so unclear what would comes out of the plot

Overall I like it enough. People like Lacrymas who like low level DnD would probably happy with this. It certainly is much better DLC than DLC 1, engaging throughout. Biggest complain would be the spoiler ending above as it feels like a copout and with news of Season Pass 2 actually makes me think that Owlcat are kinda milking WotR too much.
 

Parabalus

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Finished DLC2 on Core. It is a low level campaign for Level 1 - 5 (practically 1 - 4 as the 5th level happens in like the last 3% of the DLC). As people pointed out, combat is largely optional and gives no EXP altho some of them do give decent items in context of the campaign.

The DLC2 focus in general is about resource utilization. This comes with the usual consumables but compared to main campaign there are 2 big difference. The first one are two unique items, Tools and Ropes, both can be used to interact with environment to avoid fight/get behind enemy lines for advantageous position or triggering environment kills switch (falling boulder ,etc)/get some decent items. They are in limited supply and thus considering when to use them is main attraction. The 2nd is Limiting Rest due to NPC mechanic. Throughout your journey in DLC2 you will meet cast of NPC that will help your party during Storybook Sequence (those small CYOA things). During those, they could get ailments that reduce their health and every rest will result in those ailments progressing worse and worse potentially killing them. Removing the ailment requires Scroll of Remove Disease (Circle 3 Cleric spells thus you won't get them normally ingame as it is largely Level 1 - 4) which is designed as another limited resource. This encourage players to minimize rest as much as possible if you do care to keep them alive.

Now in practice the DLC is still very combat heavy outside the first hour. Soon you will get to 5 party (MC, Rogue companion, 3 mercs {default are Fighter, Slayer, Cleric}) and then get the last party member (Sorc companion). Within scope of Core difficulty, using Tools and Rope as needed, it is fairly easy to basically just clear every map within boundary of 1 rest per major area. I would assume playing DLC in Hard would be really hard and Unfair, unfair if you really want to keep everybody alive. Some encounter can be bruteforced in Core but I would assume you will really2 need to skip or Kill Switch those in Hard/Unfair.

Narrative wise, there is more happening than meet the eye which is revealed in some part of the story. The companions are incredibly cliched, voice acting is very floaty to point of almost parody. The DLC ends after you get to the Tavern and Tavern attack commences.

The DLC actually ends in cliffhanger/TBC scree so unclear what would comes out of the plot

Overall I like it enough. People like Lacrymas who like low level DnD would probably happy with this. It certainly is much better DLC than DLC 1, engaging throughout. Biggest complain would be the spoiler ending above as it feels like a copout and with news of Season Pass 2 actually makes me think that Owlcat are kinda milking WotR too much.

Does the DLC give you something in the main campaign?
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Does the DLC give you something in the main campaign?

I haven't tried yet and I haven't seen people talking about it. Probably later after more people finish and start main campaign we will know better

edit: some people say you get a metamagic rod in act1 + NPC you saves hang around in Tavern
 
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Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Well, its bringing +2 Studied Target (when multi-attacking an enemy), 3d6 Sneaks (with Accomplished Attacker), Bane, Divine Favor (compared with Hunter).
Divine Hound also get Inquisitor's Judgments and can make them unlimited with mythic feat. +Attack progression is the same as on Studied Target and +Damage even outpaces it. Judgments also affect pet.

And basic Inquisitor's Bane, iirc, could be replaced with Crusader's Edge (only one bane could be active). Greater Bane is stronger, but much later.

Judgements need a Swift Action to activate, though. Studied Target is free after landing first Sneak Attack. And you don't need more Swift Actions besides Aeon's Bane, Aeon Spells, teleport ability.

As for Bane, sure, Crusaders Edge seems like a fine replacement for a significant part of the game.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Divine Hound (and other Hunters) do little to strenghten their characters and focus on Animal Companions instead. Bad move IMO. ACs might be great early on, but later they cannot compete with a PC.

I haven't found either of these to be the case, and I've played a lot of Hunter with Lann.

Pics are great but what is SS really bringing to the table there?

Your proposed solution ends up with a late pet (you're down two feats, with Outflank several levels later plus Boon) and one less Mythic since Hunter doesn't need to burn the Domain, so don't forget that as well. Animal Focus helps both pet and player.

Well, its bringing +2 Studied Target (when multi-attacking an enemy), 3d6 Sneaks (with Accomplished Attacker), Bane, Divine Favor (compared with Hunter).

You get Favor and Bane already from Aeon. Accomplished Sneak is +3d6 now? Hunter has Vitals for Sneaks.

Got the game turned on finally. The Combining of Inq and AeonBane is a big boost for both but seems better at Range due to unfortunate stacking with Crusaders Edge (Natural/Unarmed attax also don’t work with Edge)?

At Mythic 6 all your Summons get Aeonbane on their attacks. There are ways to make that relevant.

I meant 3d6 at level 11, with 8 levels in SS and Accomplished Sneak Attack (not sure I will have it this early in final build -at least if going for Dex).
Later on it will be up to 6d6 with Accomplished (and 1d6 Precise Strike).

Sense Vitals is rounds per level and scales slowly. I rather consider it an end game and boss support, rather then a reliable tool.

Lead Blades are nice, but unimpressive on light weapons, particularly without other size increases/with Reduce Person.
 

Yosharian

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Finished preliminary testing on my MC build, self-buffed and missing some things he can achieve a maximum of around 3350 damage per round
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Finished preliminary testing on my MC build, self-buffed and missing some things he can achieve a maximum of around 3350 damage per round

To bad there are no enemies with such HP. Does he have reach?
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah you’re losing me on Accomplished Sneak and Precise. You’re chasing small, unreliable damage packets that pale in comparison to the big damage you’re already doing and using your scarcest resources (Feats and Mythics) to do it.

Wrath is high rest so you’ll have Vitals up in any fight that matters. There you’re spending a few second level slots on a Spontaneous Caster who gets more to begin with.

Unlike Ranger (Aru), Hunter is full casting class so your Vitals start mattering as early as lvl 6. They make a big difference for Wolj in the Garg Cave/Leper’s Smile.

You can fight Enlarged while riding a Growthed Large pet and Hunter can even cast the Growth itself at lvl 13. DEX-to-damage is another resource sucking trap that pales in comparison to the other things you’re already doing, and you don’t need the AC nearly as much Mounted so fighting Reduced loses some luster.

Biggest problem with STR Kitsune and a 3/4 BAB class is it will miss a lot early but the second level Outflank helps a good bit there. Or it would if it worked.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Precise is "free" due to solo Teamwork feats inquisitors get every 3 levels. Not much good stuff there, apart from Outflank and Shake it Off.
 

Daidre

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Biggest problem with STR Kitsune and a 3/4 BAB class is it will miss a lot early but the second level Outflank helps a good bit there. Or it would if it worked.
Funny enough, there is nothing in description indicating that both Hunter and her pet will get the feat.
JFIBLOw.png
And that's description from d20pfsrd (worked this way in Kingmaker mod too):
At 2nd level, a hunter chooses either Precise Shot or Outflank as a bonus feat. She does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat. If she chooses Outflank, she automatically grants this feat to her animal companion as well.
So it is not strictly a bug. Looks like those assholes consciously adapted it out deciding that it is not worth the time wasted on coding because Hunter will share Outflank anyway at lvl 3. And fucked up Divine and Urban Hunter, who sacrifice teamwork feat sharing, in process.
Same thing with Hunter's auto-access to Summon Nature's Ally 1-6 spells, that makes one guy from Steam forum very very sad.
 
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Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Due to the way BAB works you wouldn't be able to get Vulpine Pounce until lvl 15 with SS.

If you play a Hellknight you could get Pounce at 11 and Swift Teleport at 13, due to the way Domains work currently (which makes no sense, should match levels in the Order, which would also make Armiger better).

The Hellknight thought is intriguing. Riding, crying "I am the LAW", smitin' chaos.

Although sucks that I'd need another non-horse pet class before advancing Hellknight.
And far worse skills, but I guess I can live with that.

Are they limited in deity/Domain picks? Can they get Animal? Can they get Impossible Domain?

It will be difficult to stay away from Grace Domain sheningans... and Gendarme Order of the Star Calling sheningans...

And what weapon to specialise in? Hmm, questions, questions...
 
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Yosharian

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Spirit Hunter archer in action. It all works, free Corrosive from Stone spirit, then triple element enchant from Spirit Weapon. And you get Ghost Touch as well for those annoying ghostly bastards.
spirithunter.jpg

The base weapon damage is rather weak at the moment, need to find some ways to up that a bit without resorting to Deadly Aim which would be a DPS loss, of course this was just with a bow equipped and no other items so
 

Yosharian

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Finished preliminary testing on my MC build, self-buffed and missing some things he can achieve a maximum of around 3350 damage per round

To bad there are no enemies with such HP. Does he have reach?
Reach would be nice but it doesn't fit the build, of course things will die fast but the principle is that he rushes into combat and gets surrounded. Also, I have pounce so I can purposefully put myself into good positions for cleaves.

I would have to sacrifice too many other aspects to give the build reach
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Precise is "free" due to solo Teamwork feats inquisitors get every 3 levels. Not much good stuff there, apart from Outflank and Shake it Off.

Yeah I know I've been down that road. That's why I consciously seek out subclasses that swap out the free teamwork feats so I don't have to deal with the pain of how poorly supported they are.

Still wondering whether Shield Wall stacks like the Spell Pen one does. Back to Back wasn't even triggering regularly last time I played. My guess is the zero range bug from PK Blindfight. Can be ok with a tripping pet and Tandem Trip etc but in general underwhelming.
 

Daidre

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
It will be difficult to stay away from Grace Domain sheningans... and Gendarme Order of the Star Calling sheningans...
Or you could install Tabletop Tweaks and patch away bugged bonus cha CHA from domain shenanigans and get Nature Soul + Animal Ally feats and Cavalier's Horse Master feature (pet lvl = character lvl) in return)
 

Yosharian

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Due to the way BAB works you wouldn't be able to get Vulpine Pounce until lvl 15 with SS.

If you play a Hellknight you could get Pounce at 11 and Swift Teleport at 13, due to the way Domains work currently (which makes no sense, should match levels in the Order, which would also make Armiger better).

The Hellknight thought is intriguing. Riding, crying "I am the LAW", smitin' chaos.

Although sucks that I'd need another non-horse pet class before advancing Hellknight.
And far worse skills, but I guess I can live with that.

Are they limited in deity/Domain picks? Can they get Animal? Can they get Impossible Domain?

It will be difficult to stay away from Grace Domain sheningans... and Gendarme Order of the Star Calling sheningans...

And what weapon to specialise in? Hmm, questions, questions...
Be warned that Order of the Star's Calling ability doesn't work. It adds a Competence bonus to your Attack that doesn't actually do anything. As in, it's listed in the attack bonus breakdown but it isn't actually added to the total
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
So I threw together a Divine Hunter retrain and it gets there slow but it gets there. I can see why you tack the Gendarme levels on the front since you need a lot of feats but if you can handle sucking until Seelah gets her Outflank you've got something. The parts fit together well and at the end of the day you've still got a Smilo. I really like the Ranger spellbook and getting it three levels early with Spontaneous and supplementing with the Aeon spellbook is REALLY good. Getting Domain spells with Spontaneous and Spell Resistance from Celestial on the Smilo is also pretty solid. DR/Evil can come in handy at times as well.

Keen Kitsune gets to 14 INT easy and you cover some key skills nicely, with small bonus to Nature. Started at 14/16/12/14/16/7. Can either take Acrobat if you want to cover Trickery (Seelah and Wolj can if you don't want to) with bonus to Mobility (frees up Lann for Athletics) or Acolyte to get WIS to Persuasion for dialogues. Probably not necessary. Can go Religion for the Holy Scimitar but the heal is just ranks so probably not worth it.

Nenio gets Animal Growth at 9 so you can run Lead Blades + Enlarge at that point. I took Abundant Casting first so you pick up the Swift Hop at Drezen unless you want to burn a Mythic Feat for it. I do use the second Mythic Feat to get Vulpine Pounce at 14.

Feat order: twf, weapon focus (Scimitar I think, maybe Warhammer?), Dazzling, Mounted Combat (this will be good right away with high Mobility), Indomitable, Shatter, Spirited, Vulpine (from Mythic), Improved twf

Mythics: Abundant, twf, Zealot, vulpine

By lvl 14 yo're Hopping and Spirited Charging with Pounce. Of course Smilo's been Pouncing since level seven.
 
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Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Due to the way BAB works you wouldn't be able to get Vulpine Pounce until lvl 15 with SS.

If you play a Hellknight you could get Pounce at 11 and Swift Teleport at 13, due to the way Domains work currently (which makes no sense, should match levels in the Order, which would also make Armiger better).

The Hellknight thought is intriguing. Riding, crying "I am the LAW", smitin' chaos.

Although sucks that I'd need another non-horse pet class before advancing Hellknight.
And far worse skills, but I guess I can live with that.

Are they limited in deity/Domain picks? Can they get Animal? Can they get Impossible Domain?

It will be difficult to stay away from Grace Domain sheningans... and Gendarme Order of the Star Calling sheningans...

And what weapon to specialise in? Hmm, questions, questions...
Be warned that Order of the Star's Calling ability doesn't work. It adds a Competence bonus to your Attack that doesn't actually do anything. As in, it's listed in the attack bonus breakdown but it isn't actually added to the total

Oh well, getting Order of the Sword Mounted Mastery for Pet Str to damage instead would feel more fair anyway, I guess.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Just noticed that Demonslayer is fixed if you’re willing to give up the Dimensional Hop or Aeon (can get Domains from Trickster).
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Tried to build the HK and… discovered that they fixed the Pentamic Faith bug for Reg (awhile ago) but not for other HKs. I swear none of the programmers must play the game.

Surprisingly difficult to get there without Horse. Cockatrice does give you Dazzling.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
I’ve got a 14th lvl Aeon save so Ill compare Hunter 14 to Hunter1/Gendarme3(Cockatrice)/Hunter10 to see how they compare.

I’ll test Religion on Mythic8 Trickster as well.
 

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