Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[ArchAngel]

I wouldn't mind replay 2 hours of KotC but wererats with tons of alchemy fire potions, terrible kingdom management UI, loading screens, annoying traveling features and camping got the better of me.

That wererat is an Alchemist class, that is his whole trick. Would you have liked it more if he Fireballed your group while you are engaged by this two melee companions?!
Funny that you mention KotC, that game also had some pretty hard fights that you needed to restart to beat.
Also what is wrong with traveling and camping? Finally a game that punishes people that leave Strength at low value in their chase for moar power. And camping is cute and fun and stops rest spamming (well that and quest timers).

 

[Yosharian]

The Wererat cave is freaking awesome. I really had to strategize to win that encounter. Great stuff.

Edit: Core rules mind you. On Unfair those guys are probably absolute cunts. But then, if you're deliberately making the game harder, stfu about it being too hard.

 

[Raghar]

This actually isn't that bad, depending on your difficulty level. I usually fight it on challenging, for reference.

Spoiler

Buff Valerie with fire protection, send her after the alchemist so it throws bombs at her then move her to the opposite side of the alchemist. Use the rest of the group to fight the other two wererats and kill them. The short sword one is weaker than the kukri one, so kill it first to get rid of their flanking sneak attacks. You can also try early debuffs like hideous laughter. Once the first two meleers are down, send the group after the alchemist. If need be, move Valerie out of melee range still on the opposite side from the group. The alchemist will still keep throwing fire bombs at her but the rest of the group will be out of splash range. Use healing potions on Valerie as necessary.

That's assuming you don't go blind into fight.

But frankly every fight is easy when you know what you can encounter. In fact it's even easier in Pathfinder, where when you fight stag lord, and your only character is nearly dead and mauling stag lord. Staglord cast one spell, second spell, and then before he cast third spell he's killed. If he shot, it would be likely one hit kill.

But they created scripts, not AI, and the character behaves rigidly according to scripts.

 

[mediocrepoet]

This actually isn't that bad, depending on your difficulty level. I usually fight it on challenging, for reference.

Spoiler

Buff Valerie with fire protection, send her after the alchemist so it throws bombs at her then move her to the opposite side of the alchemist. Use the rest of the group to fight the other two wererats and kill them. The short sword one is weaker than the kukri one, so kill it first to get rid of their flanking sneak attacks. You can also try early debuffs like hideous laughter. Once the first two meleers are down, send the group after the alchemist. If need be, move Valerie out of melee range still on the opposite side from the group. The alchemist will still keep throwing fire bombs at her but the rest of the group will be out of splash range. Use healing potions on Valerie as necessary.

That's assuming you don't go blind into fight.

But frankly every fight is easy when you know what you can encounter. In fact it's even easier in Pathfinder, where when you fight stag lord, and your only character is nearly dead and mauling stag lord. Staglord cast one spell, second spell, and then before he cast third spell he's killed. If he shot, it would be likely one hit kill.

But they created scripts, not AI, and the character behaves rigidly according to scripts.

Yeah, it's crazy how when you don't instantly win you have to restart the game instead of loading a save and thinking about how to approach an encounter. Definitely something to bitch about since these things should be like watching a movie followed by fountains of loot.

Too bad the game doesn't autosave when you enter caves and stuff, eh?

 

[Darth Canoli]

That wererat is an Alchemist class, that is his whole trick. Would you have liked it more if he Fireballed your group while you are engaged by this two melee companions?!
Funny that you mention KotC, that game also had some pretty hard fights that you needed to restart to beat.

I would if he had a limited amount of fireballs just like my sorcerer.
High level amount (20+ ?) of alchemy fire potions a wererat brew in his cave ? Seriously ? The game lost some credibility there.

I also encountered some teleporting panther-like monsters in another cave before the wererats and quite enjoyed that one even if they teleported to my sorcerer and almost OS him, the game has some potential and it's better than PoE2, still, it's not what i'm searching for, RtwP is bad enough, that's as much shit i can eat, i can't enjoy a RtwP cRPG if everything else isn't perfect and we're far from it.

Also what is wrong with traveling and camping? Finally a game that punishes people that leave Strength at low value in their chase for moar power. And camping is cute and fun and stops rest spamming (well that and quest timers).

On the contrary, it forces you to rest because your team is tired after 24 hours and the traveling pace is so slow, i don't spam rest, actually, i use a sorcerer instead of a wizard in order to avoid having to rest too much.
Worse, your party is tired after resting, that's the most retarded resting system i ever experienced in a video game.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Worse, your party is tired after resting, that's the most retarded resting system i ever experienced in a video game.

Your party or your main character? Was MC having nightmares?

 

[Darth Canoli]

The whole party was tired before resting and still tired after in multiple occasions in ACT 2 while camping in the wild, having the MC not wearing any armor didn't help either.

 

[Sharpedge]

If you are struggling with combat difficulty, turn it down. There are enough difficulty settings to satisfy everyone, even plants, rocks and insects can complete the game on story mode. There is no shame in turning it down either, I did it on my first playthrough and then turned it back up once I understood the game mechanics better.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The whole party was tired before resting and still tired after in multiple occasions in ACT 2 while camping in the wild, having the MC not wearing any armor didn't help either.

pebkac issue

 

[Yosharian]

What the fuck are you talking about, tired after resting? It's amusing that you yearn for turn-based yet can't even handle something as basic as resting

 

[hell bovine]

I would if he had a limited amount of fireballs just like my sorcerer.
High level amount (20+ ?) of alchemy fire potions a wererat brew in his cave ? Seriously ? The game lost some credibility there.

Twenty is not an unlikely amount, depending on the alchemist's stats, feats and level, though. Extra bombs give them +4 and can be chosen multiple times.

 

[Yosharian]

A fireball deals up to 10d6 damage in a single action, in an fairly large area. You can't compare Alchemist bombs to that, although they can definitely do a decent amount of damage.

 

[Darth Canoli]

If you are struggling with combat difficulty, turn it down. There are enough difficulty settings to satisfy everyone, even plants, rocks and insects can complete the game on story mode. There is no shame in turning it down either, I did it on my first playthrough and then turned it back up once I understood the game mechanics better.

That one was funny, i just read about the wererats cave and apparently, there's a trap triggering when your enter it buffing the wererats, people usually get out, rest and then come back later after the buff wears off.
I'm sure you're that kind of morron, dumbing down the game and looking down on people who don't.

I want to kill the most deadly creatures on the hardest difficulties on most games when the gameplay is good enough and i do.

PK isn't that game, Deadfire is for faggots, PK for BG fanboys, i think i'll reload something serious like wiz 8 and xulima or even AoD or wiz 6.

 

[Sharpedge]

If you are struggling with combat difficulty, turn it down. There are enough difficulty settings to satisfy everyone, even plants, rocks and insects can complete the game on story mode. There is no shame in turning it down either, I did it on my first playthrough and then turned it back up once I understood the game mechanics better.

That one was funny, i just read about the wererats cave and apparently, there's a trap triggering when your enter it buffing the wererats, people usually get out, rest and then come back later after the buff wears off.
I'm sure you're that kind of morron, dumbing down the game and looking down on people who don't.

I want to kill the most deadly creatures on the hardest difficulties on most games when the gameplay is good enough and i do.

PK isn't that game, Deadfire is for faggots, PK for BG fanboys, i think i'll reload something serious like wiz 8 and xulima or even AoD or wiz 6.

Actually no, I am playing on solo unfair, but nice assumption there. If you can't handle the system, then turn it down until you know how to because from the sounds of things right now, you can't even figure out how to rest.

 

[Cael]

Yeah, it's crazy how when you don't instantly win you have to restart the game instead of loading a save and thinking about how to approach an encounter. Definitely something to bitch about since these things should be like watching a movie followed by fountains of loot.

Too bad the game doesn't autosave when you enter caves and stuff, eh?

There is a difference between hard encounters and running into 8 Power Armour Mk2 goons armed with gauss pistols straight out of Aroyo. If you need to metagame instead of reacting to win fights, the DM got it wrong. If he needs to put in unlimited ammo for the enemy while you have limited ammo in order to make the encounter "challenging", then you have a bad DM.

If it was an encounter meant for far higher level players, then you better have a mechanism to flee or retreat, or you are a bad DM.

 

[Efe]

what unlimited ammo, someone wrote that they ran out of bombs at next message.
why do you continue this retarded narrative?
area is dangerous looking and the high dc traps + out going alarm, etc make it obvious.
you go into a dragon lair and complain"gee, thats too much fire damage. you are a bad dm!". maybe ur a bad player?

 

[Cael]

what unlimited ammo, someone wrote that they ran out of bombs at next message.
why do you continue this retarded narrative?
area is dangerous looking and the high dc traps + out going alarm, etc make it obvious.
you go into a dragon lair and complain"gee, thats too much fire damage. you are a bad dm!". maybe ur a bad player?

Define "high DC" when you have level 3 critters going at AC 40+.

When you make unrealistic expectations and then punish players because of those unrealistic expectations, you are a bad DM. "Ha-ha! Gotcha!" is being a lousy shithead.

 

[Cael]

There is a difference between hard encounters and running into 8 Power Armour Mk2 goons armed with gauss pistols straight out of Aroyo. If you need to metagame instead of reacting to win fights, the DM got it wrong. If he needs to put in unlimited ammo for the enemy while you have limited ammo in order to make the encounter "challenging", then you have a bad DM.

If we're still talking about the wererats, then it's not even close to the scenario you described.

Fuckers are off the beaten path, surrounded by high level traps. With "only skill user gets xp" on, my trickery dude got a whole level disarming them even if 2 exploded in his face. Rats aren't even that though, they may be hard to crack at level 3, but come back just a bit later and you mop the floor with them.

I agree that it takes a shitty DM to throw a lich at a level 1 party without any hints that you really shouldn't go in that cave, but fuck it, this ain't PnP, you can save and reload, hell, the fucking game even autosaves for you whenever you enter a new area. If you decided to play the game blind and iron man it to boot, then you're not , just a moron.
If you want to bitch about ridiculous stats on monsters in this game, sure go ahead, fair game, but the fucking wererats in that goddamned cave are not the problem. In fact, this entire discussion is. Back in my day, if some moron came bitching how some optional fight near the starting area kicked his ass hard and claimed it should not have been there or that he should've been able do it at level 1 with a stick, we would've labeled him a decline enabler and turned him into the village idiot.

Son, you obviously haven't been following the discussion. My complaint has always been about the ridiculous stats, but the fanbois have been very venomous about how that is incline, which brings me back to the point of the 8 Power Armour Mk2 guys.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

It's called Skyrim Syndrome. Modern gamers want to SEE ENEMY - KILL ENEMY - NO THOUGHT NEEDED. It's pretty sad and steep decline, too. Handmade, non-level scaled worlds often add tough encounters off the beaten path that you will A) die to, then hopefully B) realize you need to come back later. It's fairly simple. Any talk of the "DM got it wrong" is steep, STEEP decline. Sad.

 

[Cael]

It's called Skyrim Syndrome. Modern gamers want to SEE ENEMY - KILL ENEMY - NO THOUGHT NEEDED. It's pretty sad and steep decline, too. Handmade, non-level scaled worlds often add tough encounters off the beaten path that you will A) die to, then hopefully B) realize you need to come back later. It's fairly simple. Any talk of the "DM got it wrong" is steep, STEEP decline. Sad.

Bugmaker doesn't allow for being able to flee or retreat. You get caught in an overlevelled random encounter, you are basically dead with no recourse.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Bugmaker doesn't allow for being able to flee or retreat. You get caught in an overlevelled random encounter, you are basically dead with no recourse.

So? Do you rather an Oblivion scaled world where every encounter you have is easily defeatable at every level? That's stupid. There should be some tough ones sprinkled in that yes, you die to, make a note of and come back later and wipe them out. Simple. That is called a CRPG, or computer roleplaying game. Classic CRPG design. Gamers just get mad that they die and in essence want every encounter level scaled to be appropriate at all times. Fuck out of here with that nonsense, seriously.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

The only class that should be able to run are Rogues because they're masters at backing down.

Everyone else dies with the ship.

 

[Efe]

nice goalpost you keep moving there.
you cant even be sure if those rats have 40ac or not cos you never played it.
just for you, fired it up and cleared that encounter at lv3

 

[Butter]

Leaving this fascinating discussion aside for a moment, what are the requirements for claiming the Thousand Voices?

Own a copy of the game.

 

[ArchAngel]

It's called Skyrim Syndrome. Modern gamers want to SEE ENEMY - KILL ENEMY - NO THOUGHT NEEDED. It's pretty sad and steep decline, too. Handmade, non-level scaled worlds often add tough encounters off the beaten path that you will A) die to, then hopefully B) realize you need to come back later. It's fairly simple. Any talk of the "DM got it wrong" is steep, STEEP decline. Sad.

You forgot C) Find a way to beat it at level normally considered impossible. Like how in Bg1 people killed Drizzt at low levels by summoning stuff from wand of summons and getting summons to completely surround Drizzt and he could not get to players once he became hostile :D