Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[ArchAngel]

On this playthrough I was pleasantly surprised that you can skip almost all the fighting in Varnhold by sneaking up on the spriggans. You only need to fight three of them downstairs and then bash on the leader until he surrenders, all the rest just go away. Even the door upstairs is left opened that way. Sure, you miss out some loot and xp, but still, it's pretty neat.

I mean you can probably try the same in troll fort. You can skip fighting all of them but you lose access to loot on them and in their rooms.
For solo runs this is useful as you can use invisibility to just access quest critical enemies.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Didn't even use invisibility or stealth, just climbed over the wall and made a run for the building. The doors upstairs were left opened and I didn't have to go all the way around. I don't think I missed out on anything other that some masterwork weapons either. Thought it was neat as it's a pretty forgettable encounter otherwise.

 

[Cael]

That reminds me a bit of a very awkward GM decision I witnessed about a magic/summoning rule in DSA/RoA, where there is a spell that allows you to create an area or material (like, freezing parts of a lake to walk over it).
And there is a spell that lets you summon elementals given enough material of their element.

But the GM would not allow to first freeze some water and then create an ice elemental from it because that is not explicitly written in the rules.
We did not play with that GM for very long...

I had a good GM who did listen and was the complete opposite of that.

I recall casting Animal Growth on Bob and having him jump from the cave's roof (he was wearing Slippers of Spiderclimb) onto the BBEG. 1,600lb brown bear enlarged one size up = something like x32 weight gain (it is actually in the 3.5 rules). Every 200lb is 1d6 damage, every 10ft drop after the first 10ft is 1d6 damage. Ended up with 260d6 squashing damage or something absurd like that. His BBEG ended up a literal smear on the ground.

He tried to turn the tables on me later by having a Roc (yes, the massive bird) drop on me after I killed it in mid-air (wizard vs Roc aerial combat). I pointed out that as I had the Fly spell on, I would be a point of resistance and the dead Roc would basicaly pivot around me and fall past me, so no damage. To his credit, he accepted that

 

[ArchAngel]

I would allow that as one time thing with a note that if players want to use that trick more often my NPCs would start using it all the time against them as well. And there are way more NPCs that players in the world.

 

[Luckmann]

Grease that burns is actually in 3.5 as a level 2 spell. It disappears after you set it on fire and doing damage to everyone in it. One of the later supplements. Can't remember the name offhand because I have always felt that it was retarded for +1 spell level for an advantage and a drawback.

I didn't know about it prior, but I looked it up and I believe you're talking about Incendiary Slime. I would consider that spell completely superfluous, myself - they should've just revised Grease and included some "alternative uses", in the same way they provided inventive uses for Prestidigitation in one of the 3.5 books too.

And I don't know where you got the part that you ignore parts of spell description as you like, rule lawyer or not.
That is not a retarded rules lawyer, that is just a retart. If anyone tried to pull this kind of shit at my table, he would never be invited to play again.

The interpretation hinges not on ignoring the text, but disregarding its relevance to the effect of the spell in terms of systemics. It's "flavour-text", much like how some spells say things like "A bolt of blinding white light is sent from your finger-tips", and then goes on to explain the actual effects of that, in where the bolt of white light doesn't actually blind or disorient anyone, but maybe just causes electrical damage in a straight line or maybe sets fire to the area, etc. Don't read it like a reasonable human being that expects context to matter, read it like an autist a robot following a programmed flow-chart. To this kind of "person", Grease can take down flying enemies because they are in "the area", Stinking Cloud affects non-sentient Plants and has nothing to do with stinking or clouds, and fire spells can't set fire to anything because it doesn't explicitly say that they do (I've legit had that last conversation with someone, regarding WFRP2 Pyromancy).

This is also part of why I dislike the idea of disregarding context and expecting a 1:1 parity between a PnP and a CRPG: In a PnP, you have the GM to arbitrate based on what "makes sense", regardless of what what the rules say, whereas in a CRPG, it's all much like a mathematical formula completely divorced from reality/verisimilitude. One great example of this is actually how crazy powerful Grease is in almost every D&D-based (and I include PF in this) CRPG due to how it's written, whereas in a PnP...? The enemies? Many of them would've just fucking jumped over it, unless it's a 10-foot wiide corridor (and in some cases, even then).

 

[Cael]

Grease that burns is actually in 3.5 as a level 2 spell. It disappears after you set it on fire and doing damage to everyone in it. One of the later supplements. Can't remember the name offhand because I have always felt that it was retarded for +1 spell level for an advantage and a drawback.

I didn't know about it prior, but I looked it up and I believe you're talking about Incendiary Slime. I would consider that spell completely superfluous, myself - they should've just revised Grease and included some "alternative uses", in the same way they provided inventive uses for Prestidigitation in one of the 3.5 books too.

And I don't know where you got the part that you ignore parts of spell description as you like, rule lawyer or not.
That is not a retarded rules lawyer, that is just a retart. If anyone tried to pull this kind of shit at my table, he would never be invited to play again.

The interpretation hinges not on ignoring the text, but disregarding its relevance to the effect of the spell in terms of systemics. It's "flavour-text", much like how some spells say things like "A bolt of blinding white light is sent from your finger-tips", and then goes on to explain the actual effects of that, in where the bolt of white light doesn't actually blind or disorient anyone, but maybe just causes electrical damage in a straight line or maybe sets fire to the area, etc. Don't read it like a reasonable human being that expects context to matter, read it like an autist a robot following a programmed flow-chart. To this kind of "person", Grease can take down flying enemies because they are in "the area", Stinking Cloud affects non-sentient Plants and has nothing to do with stinking or clouds, and fire spells can't set fire to anything because it doesn't explicitly say that they do (I've legit had that last conversation with someone, regarding WFRP2 Pyromancy).

This is also part of why I dislike the idea of disregarding context and expecting a 1:1 parity between a PnP and a CRPG: In a PnP, you have the GM to arbitrate based on what "makes sense", regardless of what what the rules say, whereas in a CRPG, it's all much like a mathematical formula completely divorced from reality/verisimilitude. One great example of this is actually how crazy powerful Grease is in almost every D&D-based (and I include PF in this) CRPG due to how it's written, whereas in a PnP...? The enemies? Many of them would've just fucking jumped over it, unless it's a 10-foot wiide corridor (and in some cases, even then).

I know. As DM, I have always adjudicated that Grease burns for damage similar to bottle of oil (1d6, IIRC). That said, IRL, there are greases that are so thick and heavy that it would take quite a bit to get them burning and even then, they tend to smoulder rather than flare up.

 

[fantadomat]

I am at part 7 of the curse and it just skip day fest,i have explored everything and have done all the quests. At this point i am ready to finish the game,is there much left of it?

 

[Damned Registrations]

The grease could also be so thin there's not enough of it to appreciable damage anything when it burns. Skin is covered with a layer of oil as well, it's not like people burst into flames when a spark lands on them, the grease/oil could be mixed with stuff that doesn't burn, etc.

Also, it's a wonder how any castles are still standing in DnD settings. Anyone with a fly spell and a bag of holding could demolish one by just dropping large rocks on it from obscene heights. At the same level you get access to Shrink Item, and could turn ~6000lbs of lead (a brick aprox the size of a bathtub) into 1.5 lb and back. The need for DnD magic to be balanced around combat also leads to some bizarre shit, like it not being possible to just summon some fucking rock in mid air but a 7th level druid can conjure nearly 2 million litres of water (thats 2000 TONS) given a 70ft/70ft space. With one spell that takes a standard action to cast and no material component. And then a 10 ton shark to swim around in it. Seems legit. Or you could do 5d6 damage to everyone in an area. Wow, scary.

 

[Elex]

Thanks for the Acid Fog tip. Easier when there are chokepoints. The other one where you're stuck in the big room, I had to spam 4 Siroccos to win. Kinda bad enemy design if you sorta need Sirocco to win. If you didn't pick Sirocco for your casters, aren't u fucked?

And I love Legendary Porportions spell, especially when it help hits a Monarch

oh yeah, my king twohanded weapon fighter specialized on glaive was dealing insane damage with that weapon.
"sneak attack? i just smash them harder" 90x3 crit damage crit when full buffed and similar stuff.

 

[Fenix]

The female power of Valerie and Amiri who were BOTH beaten up by men in their quests and you can't do anything about it also eluded me.

Yeah, let's make games where PCs will be consiste form woman only, but they all will be defeated by man, so that's not SJW! Do go on and play with these woman please, yeah.

That's not funny how you don't see that it's as much SJW as Dragonspear level of shittiness.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

"sneak attack? i just smash them harder" 90x3 crit damage crit when full buffed and similar stuff.

damage and stuff?

guys forget about sneak attacks

currently in house (unfair)

 

[Fenix]

im not noticing any sjw stuff here.

Okay...

if it exists, it isnt blatant (except faggot couple in pitax but i write that off to the whole chapter being rushed shit).

Interesting...

not like dragon age or mass effect.

So, this is how it works - first you fill game with outright blatant agenda stuff, so blatant your eyes begin to tear.
Then you fill next games with same things, sprayed with sugar - and it's not already same things, maybe there is no such things at all!
I even heard argumentation that TrannyRPG has no SJW at all - because you can beat some women characters there! And if yes it's not SJW! It's just you beat up this woman, then you beat up that woman - using the help of another few woman in your party, and then somehow suddenly happened that all your game pivoting around women, and their un/importance, and there is not even one square foot of game's narrative land left for men.

True story - no SJW at all.

 

[thesheeep]

The female power of Valerie and Amiri who were BOTH beaten up by men in their quests and you can't do anything about it also eluded me.

Yeah, let's make games where PCs will be consiste form woman only, but they all will be defeated by man, so that's not SJW! Do go on and play with these woman please, yeah.

That's not funny how you don't see that it's as much SJW as Dragonspear level of shittiness.

I honestly don't think either Valerie or Amiri are SJW writing.
Yes, Amiri has that cringy statement about men when you meet her and I think once after beating down some monster she complains how in her tribe, women aren't even allowed to try combat. The second one just sounds realistic and the first one has - so far - been an exception, writing wise.
With Valerie, I haven't even noticed anything at all in how she regards men or women. She's basically your standard paladin, albeit a little less annoying, thankfully.

Sorry, but in this case, your frothing anti-SJW rage kinda comes to nothing. Or, well, almost nothing.

 

[cw8]

I am at part 7 of the curse and it just skip day fest,i have explored everything and have done all the quests. At this point i am ready to finish the game,is there much left of it?

Enjoy the next part of the game. House at the Edge of Time, where the mobs can simply melt you away even when you have 50AC and fully buffed. Hope you brought your Siroccos. That will take sometime to clear. I just cleared it on challenging. Now I'm on the last chapter which, so far, isn't as horrid as the House.

 

[HoboForEternity]

Why is allowing Bartholomew's experiment is even evil? I hate mindless suffering of living beings, but i dont see the downside if having a lat rab to make betterment of humanity.

 

[fantadomat]

Fuck i didn't expect the house at the end of time to be that shit. People randomly die without any way you could interfere. There should have been some checks to save them or something like that. Also the whole layout is pretty shit.

 

[cw8]

Fuck i didn't expect the house at the end of time to be that shit. People randomly die without any way you could interfere. There should have been some checks to save them or something like that. Also the whole layout is pretty shit.

If you did their quests, you're mostly fine. Except for certain characters like Nok-Nok where you needed to do his quest in a specifc way.

 

[Chippy]

The female power of Valerie and Amiri who were BOTH beaten up by men in their quests and you can't do anything about it also eluded me.

Yeah, let's make games where PCs will be consiste form woman only, but they all will be defeated by man, so that's not SJW! Do go on and play with these woman please, yeah.

That's not funny how you don't see that it's as much SJW as Dragonspear level of shittiness.

I honestly don't think either Valerie or Amiri are SJW writing.
Yes, Amiri has that cringy statement about men when you meet her and I think once after beating down some monster she complains how in her tribe, women aren't even allowed to try combat. The second one just sounds realistic and the first one has - so far - been an exception, writing wise.
With Valerie, I haven't even noticed anything at all in how she regards men or women. She's basically your standard paladin, albeit a little less annoying, thankfully.

Sorry, but in this case, your frothing anti-SJW rage kinda comes to nothing. Or, well, almost nothing.

Maybe they are SJW related, maybe not. Maybe Owlcat managed a fine balancing act of subtlety there between the two that made people on both sides of the culture war appreciate the characters. Fact is (for me at least) if the topics of their stories were different I would have enjoyed the characters more - compare Valerie to Shar-Teel who had a fraction of a percentage of the story Valerie had, and I'd prefer to have Shar-Teel in my party. Same goes for Viconia, Jaheira - even Aribeth from NWN any of the female characters in NWN2 (even that cunt Quarra).

Point being - it doesn't matter if there's only a little bit of it in there - as far as SJW/feminism stuff goes; its still cancer. Except in this game it was mostly benign. When it could have been as interesting/funny as the rest of their writing.

 

[hell bovine]

Why is allowing Bartholomew's experiment is even evil? I hate mindless suffering of living beings, but i dont see the downside if having a lat rab to make betterment of humanity.

Because he could get the troll doped up on moon radishes or other magical drugs, and would still be able to study the regeneration factor, but without the torture part. Even experiments on lab rats are regulated for that reason irl, same goes for holding conditions for lab animals. (how this works in practice is another matter...)

 

[Thonius]

I don't think I did something special with Nok-Nok yet he is a hero and survived whole deal.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Why is allowing Bartholomew's experiment is even evil? I hate mindless suffering of living beings, but i dont see the downside if having a lat rab to make betterment of humanity.

Because he could get the troll doped up on moon radishes or other magical drugs, and would still be able to study the regeneration factor, but without the torture part. Even experiments on lab rats are regulated for that reason irl, same goes for holding conditions for lab animals. (how this works in practice is another matter...)

I really doubt his experiments would ever lead to betterment of humanity. If anything ever came from them it would be only for the betterment of Bartholomew - him becoming "Invulnerable & Invincible", as he says in his journal. To me that sounds like a mustache-twirling problem just waiting to happen.

 

[Israfael]

currently in house (unfair)

Well, some mobs have 32+ SR which is negating all that most of the time, unless you have this:

 

[Luckmann]

Why is allowing Bartholomew's experiment is even evil? I hate mindless suffering of living beings, but i dont see the downside if having a lat rab to make betterment of humanity.

Because he could get the troll doped up on moon radishes or other magical drugs, and would still be able to study the regeneration factor, but without the torture part. Even experiments on lab rats are regulated for that reason irl, same goes for holding conditions for lab animals. (how this works in practice is another matter...)

Even the most basic troll has a Con of 23, Regeneration 5, and Fortitude Save of at least +11. In narrative terms, trolls very likely resist or get rid of poisons/sedatives/drugs/etc. at an incredible rate, if at all affected. Nevermind the fact that drugs may contaminate the test results. It is entirely possible that drugs simply aren't an option.

 

[Sykar]

currently in house (unfair)

Well, some mobs have 32+ SR which is negating all that most of the time, unless you have this:

Or use summons or spells which ignore spell resistance.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

House of the Edge of Time - Misbegotten Troll (unfair)
"the most difficult encounter"


It's as I said... you can't tell the difference between hard and unfair at endgame. The real problem isn't finishing the game on unfair but STARTING the game on unfair.
Most characters you can come up with won't be able to finish the tutorial, from those that can most won't beat the fight at Oleg's.
When you have one who beat the fight at Oleg's Bokken will be dead. Yes, figure that, Bokken just dies there, gets hit by an ~80dmg arrow - instagibbed, gone for good as questgiver and as future artisan... just gone.
The beginning of the game on unfair is easily the most retarded thing I've encountered in 25 years of playing CRPGs.