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Indie Passageway of the Ancients - Baldur's Gate-Like RPG with Dual-Persona Character Development

Joined
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As I mentioned in the developers' Discord, one of the "design decisions" I liked the least, and which is currently making me hesitant to buy the game, is that there are only 3 possible companions with predefined classes: a Paladin, a Cleric, and a Rogue. This almost forces the player to pick a "magic" class (Wizard or Sentinel) because otherwise, the party might become unbalanced (although I’m not sure if the Cleric, as in other settings, could potentially have spells just as offensive as a wizard's).
I can tell you that cleric spell selection is let's just say "limited". If you are really into "builds" then better skip it all together. Wraith of the Righteous it is not.


More than focusing on 'builds' (in fact, when I have the option to create the whole party, I usually stick to the more classic archetypes, setting aside the obsessive search for optimization), my concern about the cleric's offensive capabilities was based on the possibility of encountering enemies that are more resistant to physical damage and more vulnerable to magic, which could put a party without 'pure spellcasters' in trouble.
I'm playing on second highest difficulty and haven't used magic at all other than occasional heals (I made a Paladin, had no idea about the classes of companions). Last few hours I haven't even set my styles up I just keep Combat AI on and send my entire party to attack. No issues so far after ~17 hours
 
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BosanskiSeljak

Pursuant to your comments and others we are going to change the dungeons so they only refill if you miss one or more tears or purposefully leave a tear on the level. We are also considering reducing the amount of loot we distribute on each level. What do you think? Also did you resolve your frame rate problem? Was this happening mainly in the Family Chapel and Shrine by chance?
No, not solved. I've been playing on 15-20 frames the whole time.

I have restarted the game all the time, lowered settings to as low as they can go (Even then, I have a good PC I never have to lower settings especially for indie RPGs), restarted PC, played with settings, deleted all my save files, everything I can think of. No fix so far.
 

JonG

Passageway Games
Developer
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
143

BosanskiSeljak

Pursuant to your comments and others we are going to change the dungeons so they only refill if you miss one or more tears or purposefully leave a tear on the level. We are also considering reducing the amount of loot we distribute on each level. What do you think? Also did you resolve your frame rate problem? Was this happening mainly in the Family Chapel and Shrine by chance?
No, not solved. I've been playing on 15-20 frames the whole time.

I have restarted the game all the time, lowered settings to as low as they can go (Even then, I have a good PC I never have to lower settings especially for indie RPGs), restarted PC, played with settings, deleted all my save files, everything I can think of. No fix so far.
We will look at this again but can't reproduce it here. We have a patch we will release in roughly 5-10 days that addresses, among many others, resolution change issues that were induced by a fix for Linux. When this patch comes out you could try again with different resolutions to see if it modifies your frame rate
 

JonG

Passageway Games
Developer
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
143

BosanskiSeljak

Pursuant to your comments and others we are going to change the dungeons so they only refill if you miss one or more tears or purposefully leave a tear on the level. We are also considering reducing the amount of loot we distribute on each level. What do you think? Also did you resolve your frame rate problem? Was this happening mainly in the Family Chapel and Shrine by chance?
No, not solved. I've been playing on 15-20 frames the whole time.

I have restarted the game all the time, lowered settings to as low as they can go (Even then, I have a good PC I never have to lower settings especially for indie RPGs), restarted PC, played with settings, deleted all my save files, everything I can think of. No fix so far.
About you fps problem I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner. (no one ever changes this but maybe somehow it got changed on your machine) When the game first starts click on the options button. on the next screen click on the graphics button. Then find the line with "target fps" on it and a drop down next to it make sure that it says "60 fps". if it doesn't then click on the drop down and chose 60 fps. Let me know if this helps If this doesn't work I have another idea we can try.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2022
Messages
2,505
Location
Vareš

BosanskiSeljak

Pursuant to your comments and others we are going to change the dungeons so they only refill if you miss one or more tears or purposefully leave a tear on the level. We are also considering reducing the amount of loot we distribute on each level. What do you think? Also did you resolve your frame rate problem? Was this happening mainly in the Family Chapel and Shrine by chance?
No, not solved. I've been playing on 15-20 frames the whole time.

I have restarted the game all the time, lowered settings to as low as they can go (Even then, I have a good PC I never have to lower settings especially for indie RPGs), restarted PC, played with settings, deleted all my save files, everything I can think of. No fix so far.
About you fps problem I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner. (no one ever changes this but maybe somehow it got changed on your machine) When the game first starts click on the options button. on the next screen click on the graphics button. Then find the line with "target fps" on it and a drop down next to it make sure that it says "60 fps". if it doesn't then click on the drop down and chose 60 fps. Let me know if this helps If this doesn't work I have another idea we can try.
Trust me I've capped my FPS - I was playing on shit machines up until a few years ago so I've tried everything.

I'll just continue suffering with these low frames, it's quite nostalgic, takes me back to the roots lol. Something about this game just doesn't agree with my PC.
 

JonG

Passageway Games
Developer
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
143
Something about this game just doesn't agree with my PC.
Could it be anti-virus software?
I don't have any "anti virus" other than windows defender. I'll completely shut it off and see if that helps either way, this shit seems to cause so many problems.
If you go to Users/local low/Passagewaygames/ you will find a file named settings.xml . if you open it with notepad you will find a line that reads 'setting name="movement performance">' on the line just below this it should read '0.02</Setting>'. If it has any other number besides 0.02 change it to 0.02 and save the new settings. By the way were you set to 60 fps or better you could try other settings from the drop down this is what the game is set to not what it thinks the machine is running at. let me know either way.
 
Last edited:
Joined
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Messages
2,505
Location
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Something about this game just doesn't agree with my PC.
Could it be anti-virus software?
I don't have any "anti virus" other than windows defender. I'll completely shut it off and see if that helps either way, this shit seems to cause so many problems.
If you go to Users/local low/Passagewaygames/ you will find a file named settings.xml if you open it with notepad you will find a line that reads 'setting name="movement performance">' on the line just below this it should read '0.02</Setting>'. If it has any other number besides 0.02 change it to 0.02 and save the new settings. By the way were you set to 60 fps or better you could try other settings from the drop down this is what the game is set to not what it thinks the machine is running at. let me know either way.
This path doesn't exist on my computer. There doesn't exist a single "Passagewaygames" on my PC, only the game folder in Steam common but even there I don't see a setting.xml
 

JonG

Passageway Games
Developer
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
143
Something about this game just doesn't agree with my PC.
Could it be anti-virus software?
I don't have any "anti virus" other than windows defender. I'll completely shut it off and see if that helps either way, this shit seems to cause so many problems.
If you go to Users/local low/Passagewaygames/ you will find a file named settings.xml if you open it with notepad you will find a line that reads 'setting name="movement performance">' on the line just below this it should read '0.02</Setting>'. If it has any other number besides 0.02 change it to 0.02 and save the new settings. By the way were you set to 60 fps or better you could try other settings from the drop down this is what the game is set to not what it thinks the machine is running at. let me know either way.
This path doesn't exist on my computer. There doesn't exist a single "Passagewaygames" on my PC, only the game folder in Steam common but even there I don't see a setting.xml
This could be the issue. I dont know where steam has stashed this file. in its install. if at all. That's an issue. Your on Windows right? As far as not "seeing" it it could be hidden by default along with the folder in Windows
 

JonG

Passageway Games
Developer
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
143
Something about this game just doesn't agree with my PC.
Could it be anti-virus software?
I don't have any "anti virus" other than windows defender. I'll completely shut it off and see if that helps either way, this shit seems to cause so many problems.
If you go to Users/local low/Passagewaygames/ you will find a file named settings.xml if you open it with notepad you will find a line that reads 'setting name="movement performance">' on the line just below this it should read '0.02</Setting>'. If it has any other number besides 0.02 change it to 0.02 and save the new settings. By the way were you set to 60 fps or better you could try other settings from the drop down this is what the game is set to not what it thinks the machine is running at. let me know either way.
This path doesn't exist on my computer. There doesn't exist a single "Passagewaygames" on my PC, only the game folder in Steam common but even there I don't see a setting.xml
The actual path to settings.xml is Users\"your user name"\Appdata\Locallow\Passageway Games\Passageway of the Ancients\. Wndows hides the Users folder and all entries under it by default. Sorry for the abbreviated folder path I gave you earlier. This settings file also should have a line which reads: <Setting Name "Target fps"> 60 Fps</Setting>. If it has something other than 60 in it put 60 in it and save
 
Last edited:
Joined
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The actual path to settings.xxml is Users\"your user name"\Appdata\Locallaow\Passagewaygames\Passageway of the Ancients\. Wndows hides the Users folder and all entries under it by default. Sorry for the abbreviated folder path I gave you earlier
Thanks - it is showing 0.02 though. I'm already 23 hours in I'll just play through it like this. No idea what it could be.
 

JonG

Passageway Games
Developer
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
143
The actual path to settings.xxml is Users\"your user name"\Appdata\Locallaow\Passagewaygames\Passageway of the Ancients\. Wndows hides the Users folder and all entries under it by default. Sorry for the abbreviated folder path I gave you earlier
Thanks - it is showing 0.02 though. I'm already 23 hours in I'll just play through it like this. No idea what it could be.
One last thing to Check. Look at the "target fps settings" in the settings.xml file. This should be set to 60 if it isn't set it to 60 and save it. We honesly want to resolve this but we have never encountered this issue on any other machine we have ever run it on so we can't duplicate the issue which we need to resolve the issue cleanly.
 
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Messages
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The actual path to settings.xxml is Users\"your user name"\Appdata\Locallaow\Passagewaygames\Passageway of the Ancients\. Wndows hides the Users folder and all entries under it by default. Sorry for the abbreviated folder path I gave you earlier
Thanks - it is showing 0.02 though. I'm already 23 hours in I'll just play through it like this. No idea what it could be.
One last thing to Check. Look at the "target fps settings" in the settings.xml file. This should be set to 60 if it isn't set it to 60 and save it. We honesly want to resolve this but we have never encountered this issue on any other machine we have ever run it on so we can't duplicate the issue which we need to resolve the issue cleanly.
It's set to 60.

It just started happening a few hours in, before that it was all good. It's just locked to 15-20 frames, it feels the same as when I had a laptop that would just randomly throttle. But it's only happening with this game, I play much more demanding games (CS2 for example) without problems so I think my PC is just rejecting it. Doesn't make it unplayable so it's whatever.
 
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So, guess I'm one of if not the first to win on non-standard difficulty. Should've gone for highest.
9wQ9aC6.png



Became much more enjoyable when I just treated the dungeons as a maze to find the 1 or 2 items necessary and the exit, instead of full clearing.

Some notes (ignoring the previous discussion on the loot bloat):

1. Lots of jank and bugs. pathfinding is atrocious in places, few bugs including being unable to save, etc.

2. Combat and character building are mediocre at best but charming, this definitely isn't a combat persons game. I could've gotten through on the highest difficulty with ease. And all I did was rush in with all 4 characters going melee and having combat AI on (I realized a few hours in I really don't have to prep). The thing is, anyone can beat this game on the hardest difficulty because you're effectively invincible. You can throw all 4 characters into one little area, surrounded by the toughest enemy and boss, but you can heal while paused. If you want to play without cheesing combat, playing a magic character is a must, I'm guessing, because I didn't have a single crowd control or aoe attack.

3. Choices in skill tree are very lackluster, and some aren't needed at all. I did all the traps on my rogue's tree but traps will do like 20 damage to you while you have 5000+ hp on your character. Hell, I went into the final fight without spending 3 levels worth of skill points. Remember Dragon's Eye in Icewind Dale? You won't find anything like that here. Oh and have to add, vast majority of things on the skill tree are active abilities, but you only have 4 slots for abilities on your hotbar.

4. Story and lore sprinkled in aren't done in the seamless way I prefer, and very linear, but a lot of love was put into it and that is obvious.

Don't feel like writing a long post so if there are any questions let me know.


A couple notes for you JonG

Please keep in mind the convenience features I listed in a few of my messages regarding inventory, and I wish you guys luck in tightening up the experience when it comes to loot, respawning, etc. I also think you should make the story/memory moments which require reading as slideshows you skip through at your own pace instead of videos. You have a unique setting nobody knows about, and its hard to keep up with the story reading it through a video when each paragraph has 2+ words of things the player isn't intimately familiar with yet. I was trying to keep up but when I have to try to recall the references to places, people, etc. with 2-5 on one page, on a timer, I miss a lot of detail. Another thing to think about is allowing the player a larger hotbar, there are just too many active abilities available to only allow you to equip 4 for quick access. And, finally, as said before camera settings reset anytime you change areas hope that can be remedied.

Also, side note, my FPS shot up to a stable 40 in the final battle, weird lol
 
Last edited:

JonG

Passageway Games
Developer
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
143
So, guess I'm one of if not the first to win on non-standard difficulty. Should've gone for highest.
9wQ9aC6.png



Became much more enjoyable when I just treated the dungeons as a maze to find the 1 or 2 items necessary and the exit, instead of full clearing.

Some notes (ignoring the previous discussion on the loot bloat):

1. Lots of jank and bugs. pathfinding is atrocious in places, few bugs including being unable to save, etc.

2. Combat and character building are mediocre at best but charming, this definitely isn't a combat persons game. I could've gotten through on the highest difficulty with ease. And all I did was rush in with all 4 characters going melee and having combat AI on (I realized a few hours in I really don't have to prep). The thing is, anyone can beat this game on the hardest difficulty because you're effectively invincible. You can throw all 4 characters into one little area, surrounded by the toughest enemy and boss, but you can heal while paused. If you want to play without cheesing combat, playing a magic character is a must, I'm guessing, because I didn't have a single crowd control or aoe attack.

3. Choices in skill tree are very lackluster, and some aren't needed at all. I did all the traps on my rogue's tree but traps will do like 20 damage to you while you have 5000+ hp on your character. Hell, I went into the final fight without spending 3 levels worth of skill points. Remember Dragon's Eye in Icewind Dale? You won't find anything like that here. Oh and have to add, vast majority of things on the skill tree are active abilities, but you only have 4 slots for abilities on your hotbar.

4. Story and lore sprinkled in aren't done in the seamless way I prefer, and very linear, but a lot of love was put into it and that is obvious.

Don't feel like writing a long post so if there are any questions let me know.


A couple notes for you JonG

Please keep in mind the convenience features I listed in a few of my messages regarding inventory, and I wish you guys luck in tightening up the experience when it comes to loot, respawning, etc. I also think you should make the story/memory moments which require reading as slideshows you skip through at your own pace instead of videos. You have a unique setting nobody knows about, and its hard to keep up with the story reading it through a video when each paragraph has 2+ words of things the player isn't intimately familiar with yet. I was trying to keep up but when I have to try to recall the references to places, people, etc. with 2-5 on one page, on a timer, I miss a lot of detail. Another thing to think about is allowing the player a larger hotbar, there are just too many active abilities available to only allow you to equip 4 for quick access. And, finally, as said before camera settings reset anytime you change areas hope that can be remedied.

Also, side note, my FPS shot up to a stable 40 in the final battle, weird lol
I will respond by your item numbers:
#1 By jank you mean the animations are unsatisfactory in places? I don't understand what you mean by being unable to save? It's obviously under some circumstances we aren't allowing you to do so. What are these?

#2 How are you defeating everything so easily? If you are buying a lot of enchanted armor we are fixing that bug in the next patch.

#3 We are addressing the poor performance of traps and status effects in the next patch.

#4 What do you mean by seamless? I thought our introduction of story line was fairly seamless and within the context of the story.

We are also reducing the loot bloat. Will do this in steps the patch coming out soon will reduce it a fair amount. In the next patch we are not regenerating levels unless one or more tears are present. This is consistent with the story line.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 18, 2022
Messages
2,505
Location
Vareš
So, guess I'm one of if not the first to win on non-standard difficulty. Should've gone for highest.
9wQ9aC6.png



Became much more enjoyable when I just treated the dungeons as a maze to find the 1 or 2 items necessary and the exit, instead of full clearing.

Some notes (ignoring the previous discussion on the loot bloat):

1. Lots of jank and bugs. pathfinding is atrocious in places, few bugs including being unable to save, etc.

2. Combat and character building are mediocre at best but charming, this definitely isn't a combat persons game. I could've gotten through on the highest difficulty with ease. And all I did was rush in with all 4 characters going melee and having combat AI on (I realized a few hours in I really don't have to prep). The thing is, anyone can beat this game on the hardest difficulty because you're effectively invincible. You can throw all 4 characters into one little area, surrounded by the toughest enemy and boss, but you can heal while paused. If you want to play without cheesing combat, playing a magic character is a must, I'm guessing, because I didn't have a single crowd control or aoe attack.

3. Choices in skill tree are very lackluster, and some aren't needed at all. I did all the traps on my rogue's tree but traps will do like 20 damage to you while you have 5000+ hp on your character. Hell, I went into the final fight without spending 3 levels worth of skill points. Remember Dragon's Eye in Icewind Dale? You won't find anything like that here. Oh and have to add, vast majority of things on the skill tree are active abilities, but you only have 4 slots for abilities on your hotbar.

4. Story and lore sprinkled in aren't done in the seamless way I prefer, and very linear, but a lot of love was put into it and that is obvious.

Don't feel like writing a long post so if there are any questions let me know.


A couple notes for you JonG

Please keep in mind the convenience features I listed in a few of my messages regarding inventory, and I wish you guys luck in tightening up the experience when it comes to loot, respawning, etc. I also think you should make the story/memory moments which require reading as slideshows you skip through at your own pace instead of videos. You have a unique setting nobody knows about, and its hard to keep up with the story reading it through a video when each paragraph has 2+ words of things the player isn't intimately familiar with yet. I was trying to keep up but when I have to try to recall the references to places, people, etc. with 2-5 on one page, on a timer, I miss a lot of detail. Another thing to think about is allowing the player a larger hotbar, there are just too many active abilities available to only allow you to equip 4 for quick access. And, finally, as said before camera settings reset anytime you change areas hope that can be remedied.

Also, side note, my FPS shot up to a stable 40 in the final battle, weird lol
I will respond by your item numbers:
#1 By jank you mean the animations are unsatisfactory in places? I don't understand what you mean by being unable to save? It's obviously under some circumstances we aren't allowing you to do so. What are these?

#2 How are you defeating everything so easily? If you are buying a lot of enchanted armor we are fixing that bug in the next patch.

#3 We are addressing the poor performance of traps and status effects in the next patch.

#4 What do you mean by seamless? I thought our introduction of story line was fairly seamless and within the context of the story.

We are also reducing the loot bloat. Will do this in steps the patch coming out soon will reduce it a fair amount. In the next patch we are not regenerating levels unless one or more tears are present. This is consistent with the story line.
1. Just random bugs and little nitpicks seen in many indie RPGs. Just stuff you see in many (mostly european) RPGs. Don't worry, this is a good thing to many people.

2. I equipped my party with the special armour sets and weapons you find in the first few dungeons. I didn't enchant anything other than what I first started and didn't have those special items.

4. There is nothing wrong with story or Lore, I was just speaking about how it's presented. There's tales and stories by your companions, those pop-up memories and journal notes you find scattered throughout the world. However, worldbuilding through interaction in dialogue, learning about the world in a more natural way, etc. isn't there. Was just highlighting the difference in style, some people prefer more subtle worldbuilding so was just highlighting how this game approaches it.
 

JonG

Passageway Games
Developer
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
143
So, guess I'm one of if not the first to win on non-standard difficulty. Should've gone for highest.
9wQ9aC6.png



Became much more enjoyable when I just treated the dungeons as a maze to find the 1 or 2 items necessary and the exit, instead of full clearing.

Some notes (ignoring the previous discussion on the loot bloat):

1. Lots of jank and bugs. pathfinding is atrocious in places, few bugs including being unable to save, etc.

2. Combat and character building are mediocre at best but charming, this definitely isn't a combat persons game. I could've gotten through on the highest difficulty with ease. And all I did was rush in with all 4 characters going melee and having combat AI on (I realized a few hours in I really don't have to prep). The thing is, anyone can beat this game on the hardest difficulty because you're effectively invincible. You can throw all 4 characters into one little area, surrounded by the toughest enemy and boss, but you can heal while paused. If you want to play without cheesing combat, playing a magic character is a must, I'm guessing, because I didn't have a single crowd control or aoe attack.

3. Choices in skill tree are very lackluster, and some aren't needed at all. I did all the traps on my rogue's tree but traps will do like 20 damage to you while you have 5000+ hp on your character. Hell, I went into the final fight without spending 3 levels worth of skill points. Remember Dragon's Eye in Icewind Dale? You won't find anything like that here. Oh and have to add, vast majority of things on the skill tree are active abilities, but you only have 4 slots for abilities on your hotbar.

4. Story and lore sprinkled in aren't done in the seamless way I prefer, and very linear, but a lot of love was put into it and that is obvious.

Don't feel like writing a long post so if there are any questions let me know.


A couple notes for you JonG

Please keep in mind the convenience features I listed in a few of my messages regarding inventory, and I wish you guys luck in tightening up the experience when it comes to loot, respawning, etc. I also think you should make the story/memory moments which require reading as slideshows you skip through at your own pace instead of videos. You have a unique setting nobody knows about, and its hard to keep up with the story reading it through a video when each paragraph has 2+ words of things the player isn't intimately familiar with yet. I was trying to keep up but when I have to try to recall the references to places, people, etc. with 2-5 on one page, on a timer, I miss a lot of detail. Another thing to think about is allowing the player a larger hotbar, there are just too many active abilities available to only allow you to equip 4 for quick access. And, finally, as said before camera settings reset anytime you change areas hope that can be remedied.

Also, side note, my FPS shot up to a stable 40 in the final battle, weird lol
I will respond by your item numbers:
#1 By jank you mean the animations are unsatisfactory in places? I don't understand what you mean by being unable to save? It's obviously under some circumstances we aren't allowing you to do so. What are these?

#2 How are you defeating everything so easily? If you are buying a lot of enchanted armor we are fixing that bug in the next patch.

#3 We are addressing the poor performance of traps and status effects in the next patch.

#4 What do you mean by seamless? I thought our introduction of story line was fairly seamless and within the context of the story.

We are also reducing the loot bloat. Will do this in steps the patch coming out soon will reduce it a fair amount. In the next patch we are not regenerating levels unless one or more tears are present. This is consistent with the story line.
1. Just random bugs and little nitpicks seen in many indie RPGs. Just stuff you see in many (mostly european) RPGs. Don't worry, this is a good thing to many people.

2. I equipped my party with the special armour sets and weapons you find in the first few dungeons. I didn't enchant anything other than what I first started and didn't have those special items.

4. There is nothing wrong with story or Lore, I was just speaking about how it's presented. There's tales and stories by your companions, those pop-up memories and journal notes you find scattered throughout the world. However, worldbuilding through interaction in dialogue, learning about the world in a more natural way, etc. isn't there. Was just highlighting the difference in style, some people prefer more subtle worldbuilding so was just highlighting how this game approaches it.
First of all I want to take this opportunity to thank you profusely for all your extensive review! The comments have been illuminating. You are obviously a well seasoned RPG player. I believe there is a bigger jump between Strategic and expert than between Standard and Strategic. We also gave the AI a boost recently. Perhaps too much? Were you playing with AI on? I wish you were on our team I would then ask my seasoned vet to try expert mode after we look at muzzling the AI a bit in this next patch.
 
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First of all I want to take this opportunity to thank you profusely for all your extensive review! The comments have been illuminating. You are obviously a well seasoned RPG player. I believe there is a bigger jump between Strategic and expert than between Standard and Strategic. We also gave the AI a boost recently. Perhaps too much? Were you playing with AI on? I wish you were on our team I would then ask my seasoned vet to try expert mode after we look at muzzling the AI a bit in this next patch.
I did everything manually until after the Dwarven Mines when I realized I didn't have to set anything up, that's when I turned on Combat AI and just had all 4 characters going melee, even my Rogue and Cleric I built for different purposes.

There are 2 big difficulty jumps which last only in their respective area, otherwise you can go through Strategic in the way I did. However, being able to heal while paused makes you invincible and any difficulty doesn't stop people from cheesing the combat. Unfortunately I didn't try on Expert since difficulty is locked once you start.

However I don't think a combat AI nerf would do anything unless you purposefully make it use incorrect styles for monsters you've already scouted out weaknesses for. Healing is abundant, with both active abilities and potions. I could fill up my inventory with thousands of healing potions, I even did that at the end where I bought 2000 but still had 600 gold left over. Meanwhile, the only times combat in Strategic puts you on your heals is when dozens of enemies swarm you from all sides, or the insane AOE effects from enemies in the final dungeon. But, like I said, anyone can still cheese their way through it.

I tested it out in the final fight: put all 4 of my characters in the middle of everything in the final fight, let myself get swarmed and just sat taking all attacks and AOE damage without even buffing my party. You can simply pause and heal your party when they get low, unpause, continue. I only used up ~100-150 health potions, but I had 2000 in my inventory and if I wanted to, could've bought 10000+ more (which again ties into the whole economy due to amount of loot. That 600 gold i had, I still had 30+ Samaels Tears & a lot of Full Plate armour sitting in my inventory not sold yet). However, playing without cheesing the healing potions during pause actually makes you be very careful about positioning in those couple of encounters and I'm assuming is the intended way to play (considering a previous post where you mentioned leaving grinding earlier levels an option because of steep difficulty curves near the end). Removing the ability to consume items in pause seems closer to the intended design, i.e. you can use a healing/curing potion while paused, but you have to unpause and drink it for a couple of seconds while engaged in combat.
 

JonG

Passageway Games
Developer
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
143
WOW OK I never would have put all this together without you! You are truly one in a thousand users! I never factored in this particular strategy at this extreme a level. I will have to reflect on this a bit . I like your suggested idea of forcing the player to leave pause while drinking a potion either mana or health. An AI nerf is out of the question with this issue its the wrong direction entirely. You have been invaluable. No need to try expert mode you could use this same strategy there very successfully as well. I was aware of pausing to quaff potions but when you can carry so many into a dungeon because of stacking this makes you darn near invulnerable. I think we are going th have to put cap on how many potions each player can carry into te dungen. I hope we can stay in touch you are an invaluable asset and very much appreciated!
 
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WOW OK I never would have put all this together without you! You are truly one in a thousand users! I never factored in this particular strategy at this extreme a level. I will have to reflect on this a bit . I like your suggested idea of forcing the player to leave pause while drinking a potion either mana or health. An AI nerf is out of the question with this issue its the wrong direction entirely. You have been invaluable. No need to try expert mode you could use this same strategy there very successfully as well. I was aware of pausing to quaff potions but when you can carry so many into a dungeon because of stacking this makes you darn near invulnerable. I think we are going th have to put cap on how many potions each player can carry into te dungen. I hope we can stay in touch you are an invaluable asset and very much appreciated!
An artificial cap isn't necessary for this reason:

Let's say you cap it at 50 health potions. This can still let you abuse the system and keep you from dying in hard situations with literally no tactics. Sure, you can't be a walking God the whole way because you'll run out of potions but nothing is stopping you from just taking a portal back to town and restocking. And when I mean no tactics, I mean purposefully throwing yourself between dozen enemies who are spamming you with fireballs while you sit in an AOE attack. Doing this in the final battle of the game only took me ~50-100 potions and that's with purposefully getting as much damage on myself as possible. There is no cap that will stop this tactic obviously not intended to be possible in the game.

Not giving instantaneous effects from potions in pause however will solve the problem immediately, without artificial restrictions and truly make the player think about their decisions. An extra 1-5 seconds of having to drink the potion once you unpause requires strategic use of your consumables. Position yourself to even have a chance to use them and find the timing to use it, it will add depth to the combat as using incorrectly your character gets knocked out. There is no cap needed in this system because you cannot abuse the consumables so spending money on hundreds/thousands of potions is just a waste of money because you won't need it.
 

JonG

Passageway Games
Developer
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
143
I see your point. In strategic mode did you have the bandwidth to actually drink the potion after pause and usually survive? Thanks again for all your help.
 

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