KickStarter Pantheon - (Brad "EQ" McQuaid's new MMO)

[Aenra]

The 250$ + subforums are a different picture; what you're reading is the tiny sliver kept open to the public; all i can say without running the risk of someone noticing my posting details on another forum.

 

[Xenich]

Can you say that longer combat times, specifically to attend to more endurance based encounters that stresses resources and makes another add a dreadful fear is something "reasonable" people are seeking?

That has been my concern, you can even see my long discussion on it on MMORPG where I outline the problems with short combat (it was a while ago). I hope Brad read it because in my opinion, it is the most crucial element of why games today are failing.

 

[Aenra]

No one's going for shorter combat periods, no one's after DPS timed races.

 

[Xenich]

No one's going for shorter combat periods, no one's after DPS timed races.

Is it not a matter if they are going for it, it is a matter if they are paying attention to it happening. I mean, after all.. they did build "DPS" into their role system, which in my opinion is a poor role as all classes do damage and so such a role simply promotes the need to constantly measure that class against all others in order to retain its "role" as DPS (an unhealthy design mechanic).

If you say they understand that endurance fights are key, important to the game, and must be present for the preservation of game play, then that would help me feel a bit more at ease I guess. Not to put you on the spot though.

 

[Aenra]

Sometimes i want to strangle you. First i give you the answer, and all you do is bust my balls further; then i figure fuck it, let's PM him, only you don't allow for PMs either, lol
So fuck you ^^

 

[Xenich]

Sometimes i want to strangle you. First i give you the answer, and all you do is bust my balls further; then i figure fuck it, let's PM him, only you don't allow for PMs either, lol
So fuck you ^^

You are such a drama queen. Seriously, stop jumping to conclusions. You wonder why I go off on you? It is because 1) You make lots of assumptions about my intent rather than simply asking. 2) those same assumptions is what causes you to go into left field in your discussion making some of your comments confusing as hell.

I didn't know my PMs were blocked. Stop acting like each comment I make is a direct personal attack. Basically, stop acting like a fucking woman... sheesh.

 

[Aenra]

GDC interview up:

 

[belowmecoldhands]

GDC interview up:

Good interview. Realistic and straight talk. Despite all the carebears who always want convenience over awareness or finesse, I think Pantheon will reach a middleground and do exactly what Brad is saying: Reach a specific audience.

Watching the video, I wish I could play tomorrow. But seriously I won't be playing this until launch. I'm actually intentionally not watching most of hte videos about prealpha (wherever it's at right now) because I want to keep it mysterious. I also think the game will change so much between now and then, it's stupid to watch the videos and care about it.

And there will be a luanch? Better be damnit. I have this strange feeling in my bones. Like a premonition. I almost feel like I've already played Pantheon. Deja vu, kind of. A past life, maybe. It'll be great, great adventure. Of the ages.

My favorite part:

It's definitely about that shared experience, that social cooperative nature. I think that's hte biggest thing we need to bring back. And I would actually say needs to come back.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

No one's going for shorter combat periods, no one's after DPS timed races.

Is it not a matter if they are going for it, it is a matter if they are paying attention to it happening. I mean, after all.. they did build "DPS" into their role system, which in my opinion is a poor role as all classes do damage and so such a role simply promotes the need to constantly measure that class against all others in order to retain its "role" as DPS (an unhealthy design mechanic).

If you say they understand that endurance fights are key, important to the game, and must be present for the preservation of game play, then that would help me feel a bit more at ease I guess. Not to put you on the spot though.

This goes back to the other link Aenra posted and what I replied to couple weeks ago. They need to clarify the roles enough so they can ensure every class has a chance in the group. If they base it too loosely, it can be a nightmare to balance.

I understand what you mean. The original Everquest was very loose. It wasn't regimented. The players determined what roles classes were to fit. There were lots of thigns which weren't fully understood yet and were yet to emerge.

 

[Xenich]

No one's going for shorter combat periods, no one's after DPS timed races.

Is it not a matter if they are going for it, it is a matter if they are paying attention to it happening. I mean, after all.. they did build "DPS" into their role system, which in my opinion is a poor role as all classes do damage and so such a role simply promotes the need to constantly measure that class against all others in order to retain its "role" as DPS (an unhealthy design mechanic).

If you say they understand that endurance fights are key, important to the game, and must be present for the preservation of game play, then that would help me feel a bit more at ease I guess. Not to put you on the spot though.

This goes back to the other link Aenra posted and what I replied to couple weeks ago. They need to clarify the roles enough so they can ensure every class has a chance in the group. If they base it too loosely, it can be a nightmare to balance.

I understand what you mean. The original Everquest was very loose. It wasn't regimented. The players determined what roles classes were to fit. There were lots of thigns which weren't fully understood yet and were yet to emerge.

Class vs class balance is a dead end road which will always end in failure, it is why every game has ended up ultimately with the designers homogenizing the classes to appeal to the very subjective and "fad based" demands of the players. As you mentioned, in EQ, the roles tended to be more basic in design and description, highlighting mostly concepts and general directions of focus, not direct establishments of ownership to any given task and certainly not an identified hierarchy. Players, being the tools they often are, acting like adolescents and narrow thinkers forced every class into a black and white position of linear categorization where if you were not that specified class, you then were not considered in that role.

In reality, classes that did not fit in those player outlines could actually do well with clever play and coordination with other classes, which by the way lead to complaints about one class or another "infringing" on the player divined and mandated role a class should be. This resulted in nerf after nerf, with whine after whine, and paved the way to the WoWtard class envy forum tantrum thrower and the belief that "all classes should be equally balanced perfectly in the eyes of the player" (yep, before the WoWtard, there was the EQtard and the birth of the "mainstreamer"). As you can see through MMO after MMO, this can not be obtained without making every class simply a rubber stamp of the other with a simple name and graphic change.

So, Class vs Class balance is a guaranteed failure.

I suggested to them that they balance via the "spirit" of release EQ (and ultimately D&D) by balancing not between the classes themselves, but between the classes and the environment (ie the game). With careful design, each class is designed to facilitate a given need in the content that is unique, practical, and useful. The concern then is not if Class A heals as well as Class B, but that each class brings something needed to the group. You do this by focusing on content that is ideal to the class. That is, a certain class is considered "Ideal" to a given situation in the content. Other classes may be able to work solutions that are functional through clever application or coordinated focus with another class, but only that specific class would be ideal for it.

What this does is focus class balance on game play, on designing content to continue to provide purpose to a class. It reduces the attention to "envy" based design where each class is measuring themselves specifically to another class and demanding buffs or nerfs in order to retain their perceived "hierarchy". If one class is lacking, the solution is then to work the content to provide use for them. If another class is dominating, you again... work the content to compensate. The result is game balancing to tune and enhance game play, not a constant process of encouraging class wars.

I explained in detail on MMORPG on what I meant, but only a few liked the idea. Most were promoting the age old class vs class argument to continue on the same stupid wars that existed from the days of EQ where people decided to disregard everything to cater to their need to be the "bestest" at something... I guess because they need something to shore up their low self esteem. /shrug

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Help me out here. Wasn't Everquest ALREADY trying to balance the classes to the environment? For example, to give value to tanks, make monsters hit hard enough and/or last long enough so tanks are ideal. To give value to dps, make monsters weak to flanking and attacks from behind. Also you could make some monsters hit real hard but have low hp, so killing them fast is ideal. To give value to healers, make sure monsters hit hard enough so natural regen isn't enough. To give value to CC classes, group monsters and have pathers and change their move speed and so on. To give value to an abiilty like Tracking, make open zones or put sought after monsters in zones and make them move randomly or otherwise make it less predictable. On and on, Everquest was already trying to give value to roles and abilities via the environment, right? How else would they have value?

But you also stated Everquest was unable to prevent the homogenization or EQtard phenomenon. IS this because it wasn't balancing classes to the environment, in contradiction to what I said above?

How will the envrionment prevent the "tard" phenomenon? For example, if my class has hte abilty to move block type X 10 units in any direction and other classes can move it too but only maybe 5 or 3 units, won't they have ability envy? Moving the focus away from the class itself onto the environment doesn't change hte fact moving the block 10 units is desirable.

Evne if I have an exclusive ability to make block type 4 (in the environment) invisible, won't other classes want it anyway just because sometimes they want to solo or want to form a group faster (by undermanning it)?

For example, in DDO, rogues can dismantle (or otherwise disable) traps. But what stops other classes from wanting to be able to do that when they solo? It's an automatic +10 or +15 percent experience bonus!

And btw I think the reason you have so much problem convincing people in the MMORPG forum is because it's hard to understand other peoples ideas and many times people don't want to spend hours thinking about something, trying to wrap their head around it. The most successful posts are extremely short and merely for entertainment, I think.

I am by no means trying to give the impression I understood your post. So don't assume I think I do.

Spoiler

EDIT: I complained bitterly about class homogenzation when I was on live in the forums. My feeling is homogenization stems from the fact people like to solo and also because everybody wants to be the best. And another reason is homogenizing is cheaper. It's less complicated. If all the classes are the same you save yourself tens of thousands of dollars in development. And much more over time, because many bugs and nerfs occur in more tangled systems, and updating is harder.

I feel the same wya about item homogenizing. Items in origianl EQ seemed for unique and handmade to me. But slowly that changed and items became more like something a spreadsheet makes. Ugly and boring. I think the primary reason for this was because it was easier and stat inflation and because players complained about equipment management. An example of equipment management is how original EQ didn't limit effects to certian slots and items didn't always have haste either. This meant you might hold onto your earring because it has haste, but otherwise it has no stats and you feel oppressed by it.

Something similar happened in Anarchy Online with armor holes. Later versions of Anarchy Online removed holes, so all armour had equal amoutns in each type, meaning you didn't have to manage it. Bleh.

 

[Xenich]

Help me out here. Wasn't Everquest ALREADY trying to balance the classes to the environment? For example, to give value to tanks, make monsters hit hard enough and/or last long enough so tanks are ideal. To give value to dps, make monsters weak to flanking and attacks from behind. Also you could make some monsters hit real hard but have low hp, so killing them fast is ideal. To give value to healers, make sure monsters hit hard enough so natural regen isn't enough. To give value to CC classes, group monsters and have pathers and change their move speed and so on. To give value to an abiilty like Tracking, make open zones or put sought after monsters in zones and make them move randomly or otherwise make it less predictable. On and on, Everquest was already trying to give value to roles and abilities via the environment, right? How else would they have value?

To some extent, yes... They took a class, defined a basic general direction of abilities that it had and provided content that would provide use to it. The only thing I would say is that they may not have specifically designed the content to the classes abilities to any clarified intent. I think a lot of the game was just using D&D as a template (many of the classes and systems were modeled after AD&D directly, though many cRPGs at the time were as well). If you read the manual that came with the first box release, the class descriptions were more like a AD&D manual describing a class. It focused on the tools and abilities of the class, not its direct comparison to another class and it didn't establish generic "roles" to pigeon hole a player into. Don't confuse that with trying to make the class a "hybrid", rather the concern was not "class vs class" design, rather it was class vs environment, or a "tool box" to a set of obstacles in content.

But you also stated Everquest was unable to prevent the homogenization or EQtard phenomenon. IS this because it wasn't balancing classes to the environment, in contradiction to what I said above?

Players started defining roles without attention to all the details of the classes abilities, which led to hybrids becoming extremely powerful. Each hybrid complained about each specific lacking in an ability compared to a primary class. In one month the class would complain about their DPS compared to another within the game, so that would be increased (or the other class decreased). Then, on another month they could complain about their healing compared to another, and so... that would be improved. Another month, it was tanking, taunting, etc... Over time, hybrids became power houses because the "role" system the players created was shallow and did not consider the power of utilities. Though this was often due to the poor arguments of players who wanted to be able to "have their cake and eat it too".

So yes, they began moving away from that idea of tools for a class to be used on obstacles in the content and began chasing designs that were established through class envy arguments. It isn't to say that a "role" is bad, but it should be a guide to application of ability (ie as the warrior description of early EQ), not a policy that establishes limits. MMOs today design around the latter, not the former.

How will the envrionment prevent the "tard" phenomenon? For example, if my class has hte abilty to move block type X 10 units in any direction and other classes can move it too but only maybe 5 or 3 units, won't they have ability envy? Moving the focus away from the class itself onto the environment doesn't change hte fact moving the block 10 units is desirable.

Can't prevent "tards", you just don't cater to them. Class vs Class design specifically focuses on encouraging this conflict. Think about it, it says "Class A is the best at XYZ, all others must be subordinate!". Class environment is only concerned about the class providing a solution to a given obstacle. Let us use an example.

Take a Paladin and a Warrior. Both have defensive abilities, but do we call them tanks? That role is generic and will run us into the problem of people wanting to "rank" them. So, we don't call them "tanks", we say they have defensive natures from various tools and abilities that have pros/cons in different situations. We are saying they are defensive capable, not declaring them a "ROLE" where everyone can force their use and application. Does it mean they can't have some offensive abilities at times? Nope... in fact, in some situations they may be excellent offensive parts to a group. It really depends on the content, the environment and their interaction with it.

Notice how we did not pit the classes against each other. Each is described as having pros and cons that are dependent on a given situation in the game.

Lets use an example.

The warrior is born of excessive training in their combat art, a master of arms and their body. Lets say due to this training, they are much more resistant to certain types of wounding. That is, they are resistant to bleeding wounds and have an ability that can immediately staunch the flow of all but the most grave of wounds. Basically, melee bleed wounds do not affect them to any real threat.

So, in one area of the dungeon there are razor beasts which have a high chance of causing bleed wounds. These wounds at first seem minor, but quickly add up. The warrior can manage them on their own, but another player may need additional support to deal with it. Maybe a druid/or shaman would need to apply salves or something similar in magic or nature to staunch the flow of blood, removing the damage over time that adds up from these wounds.

A Paladin may have permanent blessing of their order which makes them immune to a "taint" (an ugly special magical disease with nasty effects) so when they fight foul creatures of this unholy taint, they can avoid the negative effects of such that maybe stack, or are enhanced with time. A warrior for instance would need additional support from classes (maybe a druid/cleric/shaman/etc..) which could help the warrior deal with this through spells and abilities that may cure or at least reduce the negative effects of such.

Notice how the balancing is not on class vs class, but class vs content? Notice how each solution provides content that is unique and beneficial to a given class, but other classes are able to achieve success, with various solutions and cooperation with others? Notice how there is no focus on one "tank" being a better "tank" than another? Balancing is then a process of adding content, adjusting content, to proper proportions to continue to provide purpose and meaning to each class.

Now if players try to force ranking themselves, so be it, but they won't be justified in any complaint at that point. With class vs class, you essentially hand the player a means to force your hand in development because you said...

Evne if I have an exclusive ability to make block type 4 (in the environment) invisible, won't other classes want it anyway just because sometimes they want to solo or want to form a group faster (by undermanning it)?

For example, in DDO, rogues can dismantle (or otherwise disable) traps. But what stops other classes from wanting to be able to do that when they solo? It's an automatic +10 or +15 percent experience bonus!

I am not sure your point here. What does soling have to do with this?

In the above examples I gave, there was different solutions, but it may be more difficult. The pally had no problems with the taint, the warrior also had no real issues with the bleeds, because this was their ideal content. For their ideal situation, they excelled and for classes that were less than ideal, they could still succeed, but would have to find cooperative solutions as I explained with other classes. It is much like the idea of a druid using root to CC mobs when there is no "ideal" choice of an enchanter, or having a couple extra defensive classes that can off tank the additional mobs, etc...

The point is not tit for tat balancing between the classes, some classes will excel over others in certain situations. The key is to have many situations and then layer them through the content so even a single dungeon is not "ideal" for a given class (think how Lower Guk had a live side and an undead side in the same dungeon).

Also, I am not talking about soloing here. Soloing in a game such as Pantheon should be "emergent" , not a design consideration in class design. Some classes may be able to solo in some situations, some not.

And btw I think the reason you have so much problem convincing people in the MMORPG forum is because it's hard to understand other peoples ideas and many times people don't want to spend hours thinking about something, trying to wrap their head around it. The most successful posts are extremely short and merely for entertainment, I think.

Basically you just implied that people are stupid and lazy. I guess that is why I don't care for most social media. It is like watching TV, it is filled with content trying to appeal to idiots. /shrug

 

[Xenich]

I have to laugh at this plea by you Aenra on MMORPG.com:

Rather than discussing concepts and mechanics here, why not part ways with 5 bucks, just 5.., and come talk about them in the Pantheon forum?

Even if the game's not shaped up enough for you to -know- you're interested, your curiosity about it signifies that you want something different. That something different comes at a cost. Show the support others will notice. And in return, come and see how so many of your questions are already answered/covered there. And trust me, most are.

Extra bonus that, let us be honest, this forum is not particularly oriented towards mature discussions now is it. For every one worthy comment, there is an abundance of ..other kinds.. that only serves so as to drown it.

And because, again let us be honest, i am mostly addressing younger people (or you wouldn't still be bothering with mmorpg.com) allow me to put it in your language: No, am not a fanboy. I am very interested, same as you. Difference being i made that show in a tangible manner. Even if it all goes south, we are still left with a statement. That there is an audience for these games. The paying kind of audience. Not the freebie type, conversing in random forums. The type of audience people bother pitching games for. Only we, the players, can make that statement.

Again, just a suggestion. Wish you all well and my apologies if by accident i happened to offend anyone.

They are idiots. Hell, most of the posters on the Pantheon site are mainstream gamers who when pressed for real gaming concepts throw tantrums and get defensive.

Now you are asking the MMORPG posters, who are essentially that film of crusty mucus that forms at the corner of your mouth... (to quote a film) to "join" the site so they can "discuss" aka whine, bitch, moan, and attack all who do not worship at the feet of mediocrity to come and discuss on the site? LOL

Pantheon is doomed. It will take ALL that Brad and those who have control to resist the urge to cater to the mainstream crowd. Having read the conversations of Brad in the past and having seen the bulk of the discussion on the site and KNOWING some of the people who are the big dollar supporters (yeah, I know more than you think I do), sorry... but I have very little "hope" for the game.

It is as I said. As the game become more popular, more idiots would flock to it and with more idiots throwing demands (seriously, the Pantheon forums are starting to look like mainstream game forum), the chances of the developers caving increases.

Sorry, but this isn't my first rodeo, I was alpha testing games (way before MMOs) when most on this fucking board were still shitting all over themselves. I have watched the development process of most MMOs follow this format (yes, I alpha/beta's many of the MMOs) and what I am seeing now of Pantheon has massive warning bells going off.

It is the same old shit.

Pantheon will likely be a "distant memory" of its original intent, but it will suffocate on its own attempt to meet the needs of those who don't want a game, but want a "self esteem simulator".

Maybe I will be proven wrong, but I doubt it.

Good luck with your worship there Fan Boy.

Seriously, you fucks are the worst. You mouth off like fucking dumb asses when you don't know shit, then worship them when you do. You folks are a special kind of stupid.

 

[Aenra]

A shocking development forces us to interrupt our regular broadcasting ladies and gentlemen, as the Cosmos shakes once again! It is time! Time i say!
(trumpets start blowing, the crowd shivers in gleeful delight)
For the next class archetype unveiling!!! Ye-sir-ee, who would have thought it possible! Yet again, a bunch of words signifying nothing in themselves have been formed, mashed and glossed over so as YOU, you dear reader may finally glean into.. nothing specific whatsoever.. But i digress! To the meat of our story!


The Rogue is here! Win some #PRF. See new screenshots.

View this email in your browser

​

Swift, elusive and deadly, the treacherous Rogue is far more than a trickster. With daggers drawn she is a ruinous force, dwelling in the dread of her foes and smiling at the dark as if it were an old friend. In the shifting sands of this fragile era, Rogues are sought out for the faceless affairs of nations. Yet their allegiance is rarely to a banner or creed.

​

• Group Role: Melee DPS, Support
• Armor: Medium Chain and Leather
• Weaponry: Rogues are proficient with most one-handed weapons, being used to situations where they have to improvise with the best tool at hand. While daggers, rapiers, shortswords, and other piercing weapons tend to be their preference, they’re no strangers to most simple and militaristic weapons, including ranged and alchemical creations.
• Ability Arsenal: The Rogue calls upon a multitude of skills, such as trapfinding, disabling traps, and opening locks. They can also strike an opponent when they least expect it with deadly precision, oft times with a poison coated blade. Some Rogues are driven to experimentation with crafting their own devices and alchemical concoctions to distract, damage, and escape their foes.
• Iconic Ability: Improvised Alchemy
  Embracing life on the edge, the Rogue calls upon their knowledge of poisons and mixtures to whip up an improvised potion to hurl at their opponents. Such creations aren’t made with the level of care a dedicated Alchemist might craft, so the Rogue never knows for sure what effect they’re going to come up with until they see the result in combat .

It Came from the Shadows...
Greetings Pantheon fans!

In last month's newsletter we teased you a little with a closeup of the rogue you see above. This month we go in for a closer look. Traditional rogue fans will not be disappointed and, as one would expect from a rogue, she may have some tricks up her sleeve. Find out more about the Pantheon Rogue on the game site.

Did you see the Twitch Stream of live gameplay last month? If not, click the link to check it out - you don't want to miss it. During the stream we received some requests to get a closer look at the areas we were showing. In response to that we're pleased to let you know we have posted several brand new screenshots available in 4k resolution. You'll see the orc camps in vivid detail. Get a closeup of a Chamber of Souls. You may even find a rare spawn from the Union of Shadows somewhere within...

This month we also wanted to find another way to show you our gratitude. Since we first announced Pantheon there has been a tremendous amount of support for the project. So many of you reached out offering your help, whether it be through a skillset, leads, word of mouth, pledges, or a myriad of other ways. We have been truly humbled by your backing and enthusiasm and we will always be grateful. As a very small token of our appreciation we will be announcing a contest later this week where we'll be giving away some Pantheon packages, including some Alpha keys when they become available. Even if you've already pledged you still have a chance to get some swag. Keep an eye out on our website, Facebook, and Twitter later this week to learn how to win.

​

http://www.pantheonmmo.com/classes/rogue/
http://us3.campaign-archive1.com/?u=4eb4247692251348b2d00e6ab&id=452d87fb0c&e=7fe958ea24

Wonderful, wonderful news dear readers.

 

[Aenra]

Also, in case you're interested, there is a ongoing contest through which you could win Knight pledges and Alpha keys:

Pantheon: Rise of the Followers Contest

What could be better than winning an exclusive Pantheon beta key? Winning one with your best friend! The team at Visionary Realms is excited to announce our first major giveaway contest - Pantheon: Rise of the Followers.

Here’s how to win:


Twitter:

Simply have your friends and family follow us on Twitter, then tweet @pantheonMMO with our hashtag #prf and @your twitter name to earn an entry for both of you.

One entry per follower, no limit to the number of entries for referrers. The more people you get to follow us, the better!

*New followers must remain followers for at least the duration of the competition.

*New followers can also refer their friends to increase their chances.

*Any contestant found to have created multiple accounts to enter the contest will be deemed ineligible - remember, per Twitter guidelines followers found to have created multiple accounts run the risk of having all of their accounts suspended.


Facebook:

Like this Post and Post a Reply for a chance to win 1 of 5 Knight’s pledges or 1 of 10 Alpha keys. While you’re on our Facebook page, please click the Like button if you haven’t already.


WINNER SELECTION

All eligible entries received during the Submission Period will be gathered at the end of the Contest Period. All winners will be selected by random. Visionary Realms Inc. reserves the right to change the winner selection method at its sole discretion.

Announcement that an entrant was selected will be done via our official Facebook page and also via a Facebook private message. Each entrant is responsible for monitoring his or her Facebook account for notification and receipt or other communications related to this contest. The winners will be announced by May 10, 2016 on or about 7:00 am EST.

Main Prizes:

5 x Knight’s Pledge each (Value $100 ea)

Secondary Prizes:

10 x Alpha Keys - Alpha access date is still TBD, winning does not mean immediate access to the game.

Winner’s pantheonmmo.com account will receive the allotted prize flag within 30 days of notification. An announcement that an entrant will be receiving a prize will be sent to the social media account supplied on the potential prize winner’s entry post. Each entrant is responsible for monitoring his or her social media account for notification and receipt or other communications related to this contest. If a potential prize winner cannot be reached by Administrator (or Visionary Realms Inc.) within fifteen (15) days using the contact information provided at the time of entry, that potential prize winner shall forfeit the prize. Upon the request of Visionary Realms Inc., the potential winner may be required to return an Affidavit of Eligibility, Release and Prize Acceptance Form and IRS W-9 form. If a potential winner fails to comply with these official rules, that potential winner will be disqualified.

Terms and conditions may apply. Incidental expenses and all other costs and expenses which are not specifically listed as part of a prize in these Official Rules and which may be associated with the award, acceptance, receipt and use of all or any portion of the awarded prize are solely the responsibility of the respective prize winner. ALL FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL TAXES ASSOCIATED WITH THE RECEIPT OR USE OF ANY PRIZE IS SOLELY THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE WINNER.

This promotion is in no way sponsored, endorsed or administered by, or associated with Facebook. You understand that you are providing your information to the owner of this Facebook page and not to Facebook.

http://pantheonmmo.com/contests/rise_of_the_followers/

 

[Aenra]

They have their 'May State of the Game' out. Not much nothing for thinking people, just Unity store default assets eye-candy for the dumb to view, but still:

A sneak peek at new Black Dagger Keep screenshots and more.

​

New Areas, Polishing Systems, and Ever Upward
Hello all,

Well, it’s time for another ‘State of the Game Update’!
First I’d like to welcome all of the new Pantheon team members who have come on board recently! You can read all about them here.

With the reinforcements to the World Building team we are currently engaging the continent of King’s Reach on all fronts. Avendyr’s Pass which we showcased in the Twitch demo is being finalized and will include an overland dungeon called Black Dagger Keep. Wild’s End, Faerthale, and Thronefast are well underway and the Steppes of Ru’Lun and the Roans (where the Silent Sanctum is located) have been started. The next region we plan on showcasing will be Black Dagger Keep, which you can see in the included screenshots. You will see more of this next month.



As for programming, design, and game mechanics we are wrapping up combat 2.0 which is our first major revision and tweaking of the combat system, taking into account what we learned during our first major milestone as well as more recent testing. We are quite pleased with the results thus far and are setting up our tools so that the designers can more easily tweak and test core values like ‘how long should an average level 3 fight last’, ‘how often should a level 7 miss when fighting a level 10’, and so forth.



Mana Climates and the Atmosphere system are further along and becoming more robust than what we showed during the Twitch demo and at GDC. The remaining classes, levels and abilities are being spec’d out. Our scripting language that will allow us to create NPC Dispositions and Behaviors is now ready for us to start testing. Lastly, the Perception and Quest systems which we showed at GDC and the tools necessary to efficiently create them are really coming together.



It’s an extremely busy time but also a lot of fun! As the tools and content creation pipelines are maturing we are able to get things done even more quickly than in the past. Add to that the positive impact of the recent team growth and the result is that not only is more work being accomplished but more tasks can be worked on in parallel.



All that said, we are still actively pursuing additional resources so that we can continue to grow the team, especially the World Building team. As I’ve mentioned in the past we need to make sure that not only the game is ready before we start any external testing but also that there’s enough content. While we don’t need to have the entire world of Terminus built, we’d like to have King’s Reach playable, preferably with both overland and dungeon content for levels 1 thru around 40.



What is the timing on getting our pledgers in game? It’s still too early to set anything in stone. It really depends on when we get the resources we need – there are a lot of variables, but you can be sure we are working hard and that the project is moving forward nicely. We’d love to start testing at the end of the year or the beginning of the next but again the game has to be ready and the content created and so we continue to ask for your patience and understanding. As excited as we are and you are to experience Pantheon we also all know that it serves no purpose to bring in people too early. But we will certainly keep you updated.

Well, that pretty much sums it up. We’re looking forward to the next reveal, the next showcasing of the world, and we’ll definitely be doing another Twitch demo once we have a couple of these new regions ready to play in internally and also a few more of the Pantheon Differentiators demonstrable.

Thanks all,
-Brad “Aradune Mithara” McQuaid


http://pantheonmmo.com/

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Aenra could you expand on the comment you made about Som Pourfarzaneh--when you stated he praised 'trash mainstream games' and it was an irony he's now at Pantheon? Do you think it matters what games a person praises or plays in their private time, if those games are substantially different from the ones they work with professionally?

Way I look at it is it's impossible to guarantee everyone will be on the same page. Life isn't like that. It's push and pull. It's a miracle anything gets done, but it's also true we sometimes put our disagreements aside to accomplish goals. I think the level of maturity of a person is direclty tied to their capacity to wor,k with others who disagree with them.

 

[Aenra]

It should matter, even to a dumbfuck like you (and you are one, Lord knows i've read enough of your posts to be positive on that). He was in mmorpg.com until recently, praising the qualities of Dragon Age Inquisition even before it was out, telling everyone willing to read how simply fucking amazing it was, sure thing! Go and pre-order! It being but the latest example of course. Plenty of others preceding if you could only go and read his articles maybe? But i guess that's too hard.
Many of you fuckheads are so used to how things 'run', be it in the games industry or anywhere else, you no longer stop to consider. Allow me to assist. We ALL need money. We ALL need 'a' job. Yet not all of us stoop low, let alone that low. That man did. Ergo?

He is a fucking worm in my eyes. The kind allowed to circle the bloated carcass we call Games Industry. His Master's Voice, for peanuts. A voice that sadly is heard, among many others of course. That's why it matters. If you are too dense to get even this, feel free to classify it all as an exaggeration. I assure you you will not be alone

 

[Xenich]

Way I look at it is it's impossible to guarantee everyone will be on the same page. Life isn't like that. It's push and pull. It's a miracle anything gets done, but it's also true we sometimes put our disagreements aside to accomplish goals. I think the level of maturity of a person is direclty tied to their capacity to wor,k with others who disagree with them.

Hmm...

I remember probably 30 years ago I was playing Everquest and wondering why...

Did you learn that life lesson way back 30 years ago when you were playing EQ?

As for Pantheon, I have mostly written it off.

Time to go fishing.

 

[Aenra]

They had a streaming 'event' couple of days ago, just finished watching it. My misgivings aside, game sure looks to be shaping up nicely. Major progress compared to the last live footage we had:

 

[Max Heap]

That stream material looks pretty fucking decent. Especially for an alpha.

I see a lot of arguing in this thread though and since I'm not bored or autistic enough to go through 23 pages of it:

What are the top 3 reason why this could turn out shit?

Out of all the shitty indie MMORPGs that are supposed to bring back some old glory of Pre-WoW MMORPGs (Shards, Camelot Unchained, Pathfinder, Project Gorgon etc) this definitely seems the most competent.

Not that it matters much.
I mean this isn't going to release till the end of 2018 if I understood that correctly.

 

[Aenra]

O.K., as some no one has noticed, lol, i'd stopped re-posting their monthlies, because frankly they had nothing to say; just hype.

This motherfucker though gave me a hard on:

Crafting and Harvesting!

Posted date / 04.12.17


Pantheon’s crafting and harvesting in this internal pre-alpha is currently a very simple system. With it we can combine two or more items in a container to return a new item. Combinations use a skill associated with the materials, such as Blacksmithing for metals, Alchemy for potions, Tailoring for cloth, and so forth. It is functional, but we feel it lacks impact and depth.


So, where do we go from here?


An Overview of Crafting

A major goal of the Crafting system is to provide players with a means to gear up through the power of choice. Dropped and quested items come with set stats but crafted items can be customized. The offset to this power of choice is that crafting will require effort to gather the necessary materials for particular results, whereas dropped items are a (potentially) simpler matter of killing the requisite NPCs to get your gear.


For example if Gereon wants a Silvered Longsword. He plans to be fighting wererats in the City Underneath in a few days with his guildmates so he has two choices:

1. Find humanoid NPCs that also have a beef with Lycanthropes, beat them up, and take their stuff.
2. Find a crafter that has a Silvered Longsword recipe and gather the needed materials (hypothetically speaking, this could be a) acquire an unmodified Longsword, b) acquire silver ingots, and c) acquire a tempering agent).

In this scenario, perhaps Gereon doesn’t have easy access to NPCs that drop Silvered weapons. He has been killing the wrong city’s guards so it is safer and faster for him to find a player to help him out. Crafting gives players like Gereon alternate avenues to acquire those items they need while serving a dual purpose: socializing between players through Economy, and giving players avenues to some solo content (the Crafter or Harvester).


Crafting will also allow us the opportunity to further improve almost any items to be better suited to specific situations.


For example:


Gereon has acquired his Silvered Longsword:

• as a Dropped item, and it’s awesome for cutting up wererats.
• as a Crafted item, and it’s awesome for cutting up wererats.

The trouble is that his Silvered Longsword isn’t so great against the other vermin or the slimes inhabiting the particular area of the Waterworks near the wererat lair. Gereon really wants to have an edge fighting at least one of the two additional types of enemies in the Waterworks that he knows of. He could:

• Find another dropped weapon that is good against slimes, vermin, or both--requiring time, luck, and effort to find the right combination of materials or stats. This has the added "cost" of requiring more of his bag space for gear.
• Find a crafter with a Bane enchantment against vermin or slimes to upgrade his Silvered Longsword.
• Find a crafter with a recipe to re-forge the Longsword with a new Material that is better suited to fighting against slimes or vermin.
• Just try his luck and tough it out with his Silvered Longsword and hope for the best.

Depending on Gereon's playstyle, it may be more beneficial to farm the desired item or to farm materials to have the desired item crafted.


Additionally, crafting needs to compliment the other areas of gameplay. One big way that crafting will figure into this is most of the items that come from quests, NPC loot, or crafting can be further upgraded. Doing this requires "customizing" the item(s) to the recipient, unlocking additional stats at the cost of causing the item to be bound to that player.


As far as what professions are concerned, we're considering the following as our professions: Alchemist, Blacksmith, Woodworker, Outfitter, Provisioner, Stonemason, and Scribe. Each profession will have a specialization. Players will be limited to one profession, and one associated specialization.


An Overview of Harvesting

The goal of the Harvesting system is to provide the components through which players will craft a variety of items. These Harvesting materials will be provided in a variety of ways.


One method of Harvesting is the aforementioned traditional "find a node, and interact with it to receive Harvested loot". This is done by finding an ore vein and mining it, finding a tree and cutting it down, and so forth. Rather than having materials for more advanced Crafting recipes be gated by level content in a zone as has been done in some other MMORPGs, we will have the nodes and the items they provide exist in sensible locations within their ecology.


Another way Harvesting will come into play is through Salvaging, a method for players to break down existing items and receive components in return. Salvaging items can result in a mix of raw materials and/or crafting components. In our crafting example above with Gareon and his Silvered Longsword, say he’s outgrown the need for the item. He could choose to Salvage it, possibly resulting in silver chunks, a silvered blade, or a hilt.


While the idea certainly isn't a new one, we will also have some crafting components sold only in specific cities. Many of these local materials will tie directly in with cultural based recipes. For example, special glass making materials might be found with the Dark Myr, so if players want to craft the Myr type of glass items they have to have the faction to buy the items there or find another player that has the faction that’s willing to sell them the materials from there.


Similar to locale-based materials for purchase, harvesting nodes will exist by local ecologies, even if those areas lean towards the exotic or fantastical, such as colored mana-rich areas… Rather than providing harvesting opportunities by perceived difficulty of a zone or the content around it, we'll be placing them where they naturally make the most sense. You’ll also find harvesting opportunities within civilized areas, such as gardens, parks, and the like, as well in the wilds.


Our line of thinking in terms of access to harvesting is that all players will be able utilize all of the available skills as they wish, provided they have an appropriate harvesting tool. All material types will already be coming from Salvaging and looting materials directly from NPCs, so limiting players’ access to individual skills felt arbitrary. Pantheon’s current harvesting skills are as follows: Fishing, Gathering, Logging, Mining, and Skinning.


In Closing…

There are more details to come as we implement, test, and refine the systems but the above information should cover a number of the highlights. Keep an eye open for upcoming info regarding the motions required to craft, Work Orders, Recipes, and Experimentation!

You can read it all here (though to spare you the effort, nothing else is of worth):
http://pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2017_april_intro/



Ima make a gnome grand wizard tailor and craft my ass off just like i did in Vanguard, yessir!
(real men are Grand Wizards both IRL and in games. We shoot niggers magic in the darkness we does)

edit: Also, the next Twitch (do they call them events?) thing is planned for 04/27, 11am PDT

 

[KevinV12000]

This is looking more and more like Vanguard 2.0, and I could not be happier. Fantastic.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Had some trouble finding this gem. It's discouraging how easily things disappear into history (circa 8/11/2008):
http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/unintended-consequences-of-quest-directed-mmos/

Lately there have been some good discussions in the blogosphere lamenting the erosion of one of the key facets of MMO’s: grouping. I made a few comments on some of those sites where I called into question the role that quest directed gameplay has played in the decline of grouping. I’d like take the opportunity to amplify some of my remarks and with a deeper investigation into this recent MMO phenomenon....

I largely agree with all that, except I think it'll always ever be a minority of gamers who agree until there's new innovations which somehow bridge the gap between those who agree and those who don't--and doing so without sacrificing socialization and grouping. As was stated in the link, players go the easiest route with the most rewards. If they're not rewarded for grouping or socializing, the tendency is not participate in it. And as we saw with WoW, most players who left grouping-oriented MMO's didn't go back. So the path of least resistance stretches across to different MMO's, meaning if an MMO gives you an easier path with more reward, you're likely to take it over another MMO.

I've seen and experienced both worlds of soloing and grouping, so all this is very close to me. I've argued both sides and felt strongly in either case. For me it's more about how tight the struggle is, as opposed to whether it's social or group-oriented. Still it's no surprise to me many of the solo-MMO's are also easy snoozefests. Those who're attracted to soloing may also be attracted to ease--or vice versa. If a game maker puts too much tightness in the gameplay, hoards of these gamers scream and shout until it's a snoozefest again.

EDIT: My definition for tightness is a requirement to heed character development and gameplay, especially combat. Too much err and you die or experience some levels of consequence. A deaht penalty is good example. A snoozefest is the opposite. No penalties and you can snooze and still get full experence in combat. Character development and travel are automatic. Granted if you're overworked and got several kids and a nagging wife, I fully understand why you'd want ease. You deserve it no arguments from me.

Also I forget to mention the writer of the above article admits maybe there's no way to bridge this gap:

I can’t close this article without bringing up the important issue of solo vs. grouping in MMO’s. It’s very clear now that due to the success of WoW, for the most part MMO’s have transitioned from being a group form of participatory entertainment to a single player form of entertainment. To use an analogy, many people love to participate in team sports because of the social interaction and group dynamics. Yet many people enjoy competing in single person sports because of the benefits of relying solely upon yourself. While Blizzard wants WoW to be an MMO that appeals to everyone I think that ultimately both styles are incompatible and work at cross purposes to each other in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Aenra]

Seems they've gone full retard trendy, they now have teasers. In Facebook of all places; guess their own site isn't good enough..
Anyway, here's a "tease" from the upcoming Twitch thing:

Namely monks ^^

https://www.facebook.com/1444194139128455/posts/1930248470523017

Infinitron is there a way for me to upload a Facebook video here and spare people the cancer?