KickStarter Pantheon - (Brad "EQ" McQuaid's new MMO)

[Kem0sabe]

I get a Vanguard feel from this, can only end badly.

I remember the Vanguard beta and the cesspool of self entitled pricks those forums managed to gather, mentioning WoW would get you hate mail in your inbox.

 

[Bubbles]

Are you sure you're not just remembering the Codex thread?

 

[Alchemist]

Speaking of Vanguard - apparently it's being shut down in July:
https://forums.station.sony.com/vg/...ts-we-announce-the-sunset-for-vanguard.71211/

Bummer...

 

[Xenich]

Speaking of Vanguard - apparently it's being shut down in July:
https://forums.station.sony.com/vg/index.php?threads/with-heavy-hearts-we-announce-the-sunset-for-vanguard.71211/

Bummer...

Yep... extremely unfortunate. It is sad to see games that have deep and unique systems going away. While some things with EQ Next look interesting, I get the feeling it is going to be nothing but shallow mainstream gimmick crap.

 

[Kane]

that game was fucking awful, broken at start then desected by SOE and now that zombie is bedded for the last time

 

[Xenich]

that game was fucking awful, broken at start then desected by SOE and now that zombie is bedded for the last time

Yes, the game was buggy as hell on release and continued to have bugs and problems its entire lifetime. That said, the systems (Combat, class development, crafting, diplomacy, etc...) were unique and full of depth.

 

[subotaiy]

The only good thing about it was the card game, the rest was usual MMO stuff.
Is there by any chance an offline version of it?

 

[Zed]

I had fun for a week with Vanguard. EQ2 was more fun - lasted two weeks.

 

[Xenich]

The only good thing about it was the card game, the rest was usual MMO stuff.
Is there by any chance an offline version of it?

Not that I have seen. Would be awesome if someone at Sony leaked the server code. As it is now, there likely isn't enough time to collect data for a reverse engineer, so the game is as dead as Tabula Rasa in that sense.

 

[Xor]

I was actually thinking about checking out Vanguard based on all the tepid praise it's getting here, but then that SoE announcement about it closing hit. So fuck that, I guess.

 

[Menckenstein]

EQ was the only good MMO ever made but that's a lot of scratch they're looking for.

 

[Xenich]

EQ was the only good MMO ever made but that's a lot of scratch they're looking for.

Well, he talks about bringing back a lot of concepts that are definitely absent from MMO's today. Splitting mob numbers down with pulling tactics. Using Crowd control tactics like root, mez, charm, etc... Slowing down combat to a more tactical focus. Group focused open world play and dungeons (though he did say there would be a instanced content as well). Large open world, making traveling important again.

I mean, I can totally get into what he is saying... and the world looks like Vanguard which I love that style. but I just don't trust the guy and I don't think a lot of people do either.

Part of me thinks I shouldn't care, that Brads failures (ie vanguard) make today's MMO's look like Hello Kitty Online, that even if he half ass implements the game, it will be more enjoyable than this brain dead crap out right now.

 

[Sergiu64]

Strange that I don't remember anything positive about Vanguard despite being a long term EQ fan. I remember trying it for a couple of days and not seeing anything I liked.

 

[Alchemist]

I was just now listening to an interview Brad McQuaid and Salim Grant did with MMOBuff.TV on twitch (an archive of it will be available later on Youtube). These guys have some really solid design ideas - which would be serious incline for the mmo world. And now that Vanguard is out of the picture there really will be nothing like it aside from old EQ.

I'm actually kinda rooting for Pantheon now, but I don't see how funding the KS will be possible. The distrust toward Brad is a serious hurdle they need to overcome.

 

[Xenich]

Strange that I don't remember anything positive about Vanguard despite being a long term EQ fan. I remember trying it for a couple of days and not seeing anything I liked.

Compared to EQ it was superior in pretty much most ways. So you didn't like the chained abilities with the adventure system? Didn't care for the different classes and their special approaches to combat (DK, Disciple, etc...)? You didn't like the crafting system which wasn't a simplistic mash button grind 50k items leveling game? You didn't like the diplomacy system card game where you collected cards, built decks to converse with NPC's to gain faction, items, buffs for the whole city, etc....?

It is fine that you didn't like it, but as compared to what? I know some tardsoling ass munching fucktards who think the game sucks, but then they think Neverwinter is a deep quality based game. The game has its problems, hell... if it wasn't for the fact that all that exists in the market is shit, I would be a heck of a lot harder on it.

 

[Sergiu64]

Compared to EQ it was superior in pretty much most ways. So you didn't like the chained abilities with the adventure system? Didn't care for the different classes and their special approaches to combat (DK, Disciple, etc...)? You didn't like the crafting system which wasn't a simplistic mash button grind 50k items leveling game? You didn't like the diplomacy system card game where you collected cards, built decks to converse with NPC's to gain faction, items, buffs for the whole city, etc....?

It is fine that you didn't like it, but as compared to what? I know some tardsoling ass munching fucktards who think the game sucks, but then they think Neverwinter is a deep quality based game. The game has its problems, hell... if it wasn't for the fact that all that exists in the market is shit, I would be a heck of a lot harder on it.

It was unclear what diplomacy was for exactly and I avoid tradeskilling like the plague in any MMO I've tried.

I think I remember not liking the races too much as they seemed to do too much of Animal+person = new race combination. Compare it to say Trolls in EQ, it seemed weak and uncreative. I remember first time I played EQ I made some wood elf character and was battling away with him until I saw a guy playing a Troll in one of the dungeons I was in... it was simply the coolest thing ever. He was 2.5 times bigger then me, ugly, green, with a face full of warts and a permanent scowl. His leather armor was tattered and it looked like he hadn't washed it or himself in a year. If he went idle for a bit, his character would scratch his behind. It was a magical moment. Anyway, the idea that a player could play someone like that hasn't been done much in other MMO's.

Other then that... I think I got turned off by 60 newbs in a starter zone with 20 mobs effect that a lot of MMOs deal with on opening week.

Dunno what else to say, maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance as I don't remember anything about it's classes. But somehow it didn't give me a very good first impression.

 

[Xenich]

It was unclear what diplomacy was for exactly and I avoid tradeskilling like the plague in any MMO I've tried.

Well, you missed a lot right there. Crafting in pretty much most of the MMOs out there tends to be nothing more than collect things and hit combine a billion times. Vanguards crafting had a lot more depth to its process. It wasn't simply a combine, but almost a min-game where you created the item from several stages of its process and had to deal with "obstacles" that came up within the process. You could even fail a recipe if you bit off more than you could chew. Not to mention that you could build your own house and ships in the game with crafting. It was an actual component based process.

Diplomacy was its own development process. You had tons of cards you could buy, find, get as rewards, etc... which would be combined in a deck to be used strategically in numerous conversational encounters with NPCs all the while you were learning about the lore of the game within the process. Heck, when you looked at your character tab, there was a section (Adventure, Crafting, Diplomacy, Harvesting) for each area to wear gear specifically designed for it.

I think I remember not liking the races too much as they seemed to do too much of Animal+person = new race combination. Compare it to say Trolls in EQ, it seemed weak and uncreative. I remember first time I played EQ I made some wood elf character and was battling away with him until I saw a guy playing a Troll in one of the dungeons I was in... it was simply the coolest thing ever. He was 2.5 times bigger then me, ugly, green, with a face full of warts and a permanent scowl. His leather armor was tattered and it looked like he hadn't washed it or himself in a year. If he went idle for a bit, his character would scratch his behind. It was a magical moment. Anyway, the idea that a player could play someone like that hasn't been done much in other MMO's.

No argument on the animal races, they looked completely stupid. It was a lazy approach and even EQ did a better job meshing an animal type character with a more appropriate body. So yeah, I completely agree it was crap looking that part. I call those races the "Pez Dispenser" races. That aside, the human models weren't bad for the time and the size differences between characters were different between them (ie a lesser giant was bigger). As for "adjusting" the looks, recently I found several of the adjustment sliders to not work. They used to work and you were able to get a decent character look (depending on race). Graphics though don't make a good MMO. There are several out there that look great but I would rather shoot myself than play them. So while I can sympathize with the objections, the point about Vanguard is its depth in character development systems and other aspects of gameplay.

Other then that... I think I got turned off by 60 newbs in a starter zone with 20 mobs effect that a lot of MMOs deal with on opening week.

Dunno what else to say, maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance as I don't remember anything about it's classes. But somehow it didn't give me a very good first impression.

So you played it on release? Or did you try it during the FTP conversion? On release, I don't blame you, heck... I flipped the game the bird on release, but mainly due to the enormous amount of problems combined with my distaste for some aspects of contested content. I really got in and played the game after there wasn't a ton of people playing and so my experience was quiet and focused.

Seems to me that you really didn't even get to try the game out much at all. The systems are a bit too deep to make a decision on early in the game. You don't even get your first chain combat skills until around level 7 and most of the content at the starter levels is a bit bland.

 

[Sergiu64]

Well, you missed a lot right there. Crafting in pretty much most of the MMOs out there tends to be nothing more than collect things and hit combine a billion times. Vanguards crafting had a lot more depth to its process. It wasn't simply a combine, but almost a min-game where you created the item from several stages of its process and had to deal with "obstacles" that came up within the process. You could even fail a recipe if you bit off more than you could chew. Not to mention that you could build your own house and ships in the game with crafting. It was an actual component based process.

Sounds like what they did in EQ2. Sure it's much better then EQ1's clickfest but I don't find mini games all that fun and I'm sure you still had to farm the ingredients which is the real bore-fest for me.

So you played it on release? Or did you try it during the FTP conversion? On release, I don't blame you, heck... I flipped the game the bird on release, but mainly due to the enormous amount of problems combined with my distaste for some aspects of contested content. I really got in and played the game after there wasn't a ton of people playing and so my experience was quiet and focused.

Seems to me that you really didn't even get to try the game out much at all. The systems are a bit too deep to make a decision on early in the game. You don't even get your first chain combat skills until around level 7 and most of the content at the starter levels is a bit bland.

Yeah I only played it on release. When I considered retrying it later I heard there wasn't anyone around anymore, so I didn't think it was worth the time to download.

 

[Xenich]

Sounds like what they did in EQ2. Sure it's much better then EQ1's clickfest but I don't find mini games all that fun and I'm sure you still had to farm the ingredients which is the real bore-fest for me.

EQ2's crafting is kind of similar, but it was really just a gimmick. This system actually had a point, purpose and development system to it.

 

[Sergiu64]

Yeah, crafting is still not something I look for in an MMO. In fact it often gets in the way of balance as crafted stuff either becomes trash when compared to stuff gotten in group/raid content or goes the other way and provides something just as good for not much effort. Building ships and houses are a waste of time in my opinion, but hey I guess Minecraft has a loyal following and that's why they're going for that in EQ Next, it's just not for me.

 

[Alchemist]

The results of the Brad McQuaid AMA on reddit are here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1whvd2/i_am_brad_mcquaid_one_of_the_creators_of/

Brad still seems to think they can fund this kickstarter:

I just don't see how though...

 

[Xenich]

The results of the Brad McQuaid AMA on reddit are here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1whvd2/i_am_brad_mcquaid_one_of_the_creators_of/

Brad still seems to think they can fund this kickstarter:

I just don't see how though...

Yeah, I think his optimism is a bit misplaced. Kicktraq is showing worse number as time goes on, not better. Considering that it never showed him being able to reach his goal, well... it doesn't look good.

Though there is always a chance if he can get people excited. There is also the chance of a loan investor or investors he knows who will dump a couple 100k if reaches a certain amount, who knows. I think his KS approach needs a lot of work. It is a bit sloppy, lacking any real depth, etc...

He might be better off waiting for another try later after they have developed the engine a bit more and can show some functionality as well as explain/show in more depth the game systems. As it is right now, the funding is being fueled by nostalgia for MMO's of time gone. That and the simple fact that a lot of people don't trust him and if he is going to gain their support, he is going to have to bring a lot to the table.

 

[Alchemist]

This is unexpected: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts/734671

Good morning, Pantheon fans! We have some great news to share today.

Brad has been talking with Richard 'Lord British' Garriott this week of Shroud of the Avatar and the two of them have been brainstorming ways to support both games. The result? Backers of both games can now claim a cross-game cloak in both Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen and Shroud of the Avatar. To qualify for the special Pantheon/SotA cross-game cloak you must be a Pantheon backer at the Fallen's Special tier or higher and the SotA First Responder (Kickstarter) or Adventurer (post-Kickstarter) pledge tier or higher. You'll then be able to wear the cloaks in both games.

Need a sneak peek? Of course! Pantheon's cloak will tout the SotA crest, and Shroud of the Avatar will be etched with Pantheon's crest.

If you haven't checked it out yet, we strongly urge you to check out SotA's website. Portalarium, like Visionary Realms, are returning to the roots of what made early games so popular to begin with.

“The opportunity to work with Portalarium is extremely exciting, not just in terms of what we can do together with our games, but also on a very personal level,” said Brad. “Lord British has been a hero of mine since I was a teen, and ultimately was responsible for inspiring me into the video game industry. Ultima II was the first time I realized what a virtual world was and could be. When I experienced that, my life was forever changed. It became a passion, and eventually a career. Lord British and Portalarium continue to be an inspiration with Shroud of the Avatar. It’s a perfect example of how the core elements of games from years past can continue to influence and innovate in today’s industry.”

Lord British had something similar to say.

“There is no doubt that Brad McQuaid led EverQuest to become the standard bearer against which all other MMOs would be compared, and most have been patterned. Just as I hope fans are excited about the return of the King of Britannia in Shroud of the Avatar, I have no doubt that Brad McQuaid will lead Pantheon to fulfill and expand the vision he began in the earliest days of the MMO era, and grow it into the future. I for one, look forward to what I will again learn from his leadership in gaming.”

Starr Long, Executive Producer of SotA and the original Producer of Ultima Onlineadded: “While Ultima Online is credited with getting the MMO genre started it was reallyEverQuest, coming shortly after, that ended up defining the genre, even to this day. Brad and his merry band created a game heavily focused on adventuring and complex group play that every successful MMO since has emulated. Visionary Realms and Portalarium are both on a journey to bring fans another set of immersive worlds so it is exciting to be helping each other in our endeavors.”

Keeping the community involved is paramount to both teams, throughout funding and through development. That community is reaching further. It's not just the gamers that are part of the community, but the developers as well. Exciting times ahead for everyone!

Cool that the old guard is banding together I suppose. But a vanity cloak isn't very exciting.

 

[J1M]

That's a lot of money for a pretend cloak with a penis-snake on it.

 

[Ranselknulf]

Flying mounts is a terrible idea also. They never add any challenge to a game.

"Lets make all this hard shit on the ground then let you fly over it at your leisure"