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Open Call for Reviews

felipepepe

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Is the google doc which contains the list of reviews up to date?
Uh... mostly.

I still need to make a round checking with everyone who promised me a review and never delivered... so if there's a game you really want to do, just ask.

Sadly, a few people stopped replying me - including Johnny Wilson. I have no idea why, I even thought it was something related to GamerGate, but I haven't said a work about it - I'm not even in the GG auto-blocker. :/
 

octavius

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Mostly? :lol: What do you want to change bro? It's no big deal. ;)

Well, I cleaned up some of the text for the final version, but the text you used seem to be a mix of the two versions.
Also, stuff about dynamic lighting and resurrection is missing, but I guess there was not room for it.
Anyway, the review is good enough except for the typos under the screenshots, and the misspelling of "breathe".

Uh, there's no "find", I took like 90% of the screenshots in the book so far. Only Lord Chaos here is from MobyGames - and I even asked for permission. :)

So you actually fired up the game and played using the characters I mentioned, and played long enough to encounter the Blue Meanies?
Kudos! :salute:
 

felipepepe

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I'm using the book to do a "CRPG Addict redux" thing. Every time someone sends me a review, I play that game for at least 2-3 hours (although usually I get excited and play more - i.e. I beated DX:HR during Carnaval). Helps me understand what the guy is talking about, so I can edit it better, and I usually grab some cool screenshots along the way.

I played DM up to level 4, where those purple worms and green ghosts start to appear. Still intend to finish it later. Also tried Chaos Strikes Back. Took me 20 tries to get out of the first room. What a fucking deathtrap! :lol:
 

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Any chance I could persuade you to throw the Warlords Battlecry series in there? It is a rts/rpg hybrid but unlike Warcraft or HOMM where character creation doesn't exist, heroes aren't persistent and their development (especially in warcraft) is extremely simplistic the character system is meaty enough that it could stand on its own.
 

octavius

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First draft of Lords of Midnight. Probably too long?

Lords of Midnight was one of the first real computer games I ever played on my brand new ZX Spectrum, and certainly the first fantasy game, and it had a tremendous impact on me. LoM was the brainchild of the late, great Mike Singleton who abandoned a teaching career for making computer games. And what a game it was! The Beyond logo and the very attractive looking box the game came in promised quality. The introduction story by Singleton sucked me into the game world, and the 3D "Landscaping" graphics blew me away.

LoM was a very ambitious game in which you played the role of Luxor the Moonprince, trying to rally the Free People (as well as the forest dwelling Fey) of the land known as Midnight against the overwhelming armies of the evil Doomdark. You initially control four characters, Luxor, his son Morkin, Corleth the Fey and Rorthron the Wizard.

Luxor is in the possession of the Moon Ring, which grants him the power to see through the eyes of all characters loyal to him. In game term this means the game is played in a first person perspective, and you can look and move in eight directions. The game is turn based, and you move your characters during the day, with the movement allotment based on how swift your character is, wether he has a horse or not, the soldiers he lead (Warriors or Riders or both) and the terrain which ranges from Plains, to Hills , Forests and Mountains. During the night Doomdark's armies move, and at dawn you get a report on any battles in the land of Midnight, even against NPCs. There is no overhead map (you had to draw it yourself) and you had to track enemy armies by looking around and see if any armies had appeared.

A central concept is the Ice Fear, which is radiated by Doomdark's Ice Crown, and which reduces the morale, and thus the fighting abilities of the various Lords and other characters. So some Lords are better army leaders than others, Luxor, Blood and the barbaric Utarg of Urarg being the most fearless. Morkin is half Free and half Fey, and is immune to the effect, and it is his task to steal the Ice Crown and destroy it.
The game can be played both as an Adventure game or as a Strategy game or a mix. The Adventure part - finding the Ice Crown and destroying it - is the quickest and, if lucky, the easiest, while the Strategy part - where you have to conquer Doomdark's citadel Ushgarak - really is the meat of the game.

You can recruit up to 28 extra characters, most of them Lords controling armies of various sizes, but also more exotic characters like Fawkrin the Skulkrin and the mighty Farflame the Dragonlord. Just finding all the lords is part of the challenge, at least the first time you play it. And then you need the right character to recruit them, some characters being better diplomats than others. You can also recruit soldiers from various keeps scattered about.

The game is not as dynamic as its sequel Doomdark's Revenge, where all NPCs move around and have their own goals, but it is a better stragegy game. Even thought the AI is very simple, it works very well. The really great thing about the game is that you can choose different strategies, from the very aggressive strategy of trying to hold the strategically important Plains of Blood into which Doomdark's armies pour in endless streams from the Gap of Valethor, to fall back from the Plains of Blood and instead defend a broad front, and to fall back with all forces to make a last stand at the Citadel of Xajorkith, the capital of the Free.

There is no real tactics involved in individual battles; the game is more about logistics, and making sure the armies are as invigorated and well led as possible. There are lots of different sites in the game, like Liths, Henges, Ruins, Caves etc, where you can search for things to help or hinder you. This can be in the form of weapons, Cup of Dreams (a new dawn), Languor of Death (making the character and soldiers utterly tired) and more.

I thought the idea of Landscaping and seeing the world in a first person perspective was brilliant, bud sadly this game didn't really inspire any clones. The closest ones were Runestone, a rather simple Adventure game in real time where you initially controled three characters, and Sorderon's Shadow, an extremely complex, ambitious and difficult mix of CRPG and Adventure where you control a Chosen One character.
 
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felipepepe

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octavius it's a very good review, I only miss a better description of how you actually "play" the game.

But there's one more thing that bothers me: why should this game be in a book about CRPGs? Not to go into "define RPG" territory, but I think it's something that should be addressed in the text, the impact & legacy of such game in the RPG genre. What do you (and the lurkers) think?

Any chance I could persuade you to throw the Warlords Battlecry series in there? It is a rts/rpg hybrid but unlike Warcraft or HOMM where character creation doesn't exist, heroes aren't persistent and their development (especially in warcraft) is extremely simplistic the character system is meaty enough that it could stand on its own.
This goes into the same issue... these strategy/RPG hybrids are a big deal and I want to include them in the book, but I'm still unsure of how.... there are so many of them, and it's a "Define RPG" slippery slope... it's hard to include some but not add stuff like Sword of Aragon, Dawn of War II, Warcraft III, Masters of Magic, Lords of Magic, Dark Omen, Age of Wonder, Dragonshard, Spellforce, Eador, HOMM, etc... hell, even Total War and RoTK.

I want to include them, but not sure yet how. Especially since so many of these are actually long series with various games. I can't just make a quick 1-page review addressing the entire Warlords series.
 

octavius

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But there's one more thing that bothers me: why should this game be in a book about CRPGs? Not to go into "define RPG" territory, but I think it's something that should be addressed in the text, the impact & legacy of such game in the RPG genre. What do you (and the lurkers) think?

Well, for me personally it introduced me to the Fantasy genre in computer games.
But why was the game included on the list in the first place?
Maybe we should just skip it, since it's not really an RPG, less so than Sword of Aragon, HoMM and Age of Wonders.
I could do Magic Candle and/or Black Crypt instead, since those games are still unassigned. Black Crypt review will have some stabs at Amiga fanboys, though.
 

Mastermind

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Any chance I could persuade you to throw the Warlords Battlecry series in there? It is a rts/rpg hybrid but unlike Warcraft or HOMM where character creation doesn't exist, heroes aren't persistent and their development (especially in warcraft) is extremely simplistic the character system is meaty enough that it could stand on its own.
This goes into the same issue... these strategy/RPG hybrids are a big deal and I want to include them in the book, but I'm still unsure of how.... there are so many of them, and it's a "Define RPG" slippery slope... it's hard to include some but not add stuff like Sword of Aragon, Dawn of War II, Warcraft III, Masters of Magic, Lords of Magic, Dark Omen, Age of Wonder, Dragonshard, Spellforce, Eador, HOMM, etc... hell, even Total War and RoTK.

I want to include them, but not sure yet how. Especially since so many of these are actually long series with various games. I can't just make a quick 1-page review addressing the entire Warlords series.

Well, you have Puzzle Quest there, the slope's already sloped. I mentioned WBC specifically because the character system puts it well into the RPG pile compared to some of the games you've mentioned (admittedly I haven't played most of them, but neither warcraft 3 nor homm had persistent heroes, for example). I'm also not sure if the TBS Warlords series goes as far as WBC (I only played 4, and as far as I can tell there's no character building at all beyond researching spells as part of the strategy component).
 

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octavius it's a very good review, I only miss a better description of how you actually "play" the game.

But there's one more thing that bothers me: why should this game be in a book about CRPGs? Not to go into "define RPG" territory, but I think it's something that should be addressed in the text, the impact & legacy of such game in the RPG genre. What do you (and the lurkers) think?

Any chance I could persuade you to throw the Warlords Battlecry series in there? It is a rts/rpg hybrid but unlike Warcraft or HOMM where character creation doesn't exist, heroes aren't persistent and their development (especially in warcraft) is extremely simplistic the character system is meaty enough that it could stand on its own.
This goes into the same issue... these strategy/RPG hybrids are a big deal and I want to include them in the book, but I'm still unsure of how.... there are so many of them, and it's a "Define RPG" slippery slope... it's hard to include some but not add stuff like Sword of Aragon, Dawn of War II, Warcraft III, Masters of Magic, Lords of Magic, Dark Omen, Age of Wonder, Dragonshard, Spellforce, Eador, HOMM, etc... hell, even Total War and RoTK.

I want to include them, but not sure yet how. Especially since so many of these are actually long series with various games. I can't just make a quick 1-page review addressing the entire Warlords series.
My two cents is that games like Heroes, Dawn of War, Eador etc are strategy games with a few RPG elements, and shouldn't be in the book. It stretches the definition of an RPG too much. I can imagine that if average Joe reads the book and sees them, he will just roll his eyes and think "Jesus, these guys don't even know that these are strategy games". Lets's be honest, nobody thinks about these games as RPGs.

Some of the content already stretching it. I showed the preview version to one of my friends, and he noticed that Blade of Darkness is in there. He said that is not an RPG at all, because although you get XP and improve your skills, you don't have any say in character development. It's a hack and slash. Devil May Cry 3 works the same way, why is it not in the book? On that basis, every popamole AAA game could be shown, because nowadays every game features XP and skills.

You shouldn't forget that this book about CRPGs, not games which have some RPG elements.
 
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This goes into the same issue... these strategy/RPG hybrids are a big deal and I want to include them in the book, but I'm still unsure of how.... there are so many of them, and it's a "Define RPG" slippery slope... it's hard to include some but not add stuff like Sword of Aragon, Dawn of War II, Warcraft III, Masters of Magic, Lords of Magic, Dark Omen, Age of Wonder, Dragonshard, Spellforce, Eador, HOMM, etc... hell, even Total War and RoTK.

I want to include them, but not sure yet how. Especially since so many of these are actually long series with various games. I can't just make a quick 1-page review addressing the entire Warlords series.

And so we slip by slippery slope fast! GTA:SA also has some stats and non linearity and an open world.
:troll:


I showed the preview version to one of my friends, and he noticed that Blade of Darkness is in there. He said that is not an RPG at all, because although you get XP and improve your skills, you don't have any say in character development.

Actually in Wizadry 6 points are also distributed when leveling without the player input. But they have a character creation process.

Edit: An article(s) about RPG mechanics in different genres should do. It may be either a big one about an overall impact or few smaller about RPG mechanics in RTS or action games
 
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J_C

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Edit: An article(s) about RPG mechanics in different genres should do. It may be either a big one about an overall impact or few smaller about RPG mechanics in RTS or action games
I think that's a good idea. Maybe a paragraph for each game which Felipe wants to feature in the book.
 

felipepepe

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Some of the content already stretching it. I showed the preview version to one of my friends, and he noticed that Blade of Darkness is in there. He said that is not an RPG at all, because although you get XP and improve your skills, you don't have any say in character development. It's a hack and slash. Devil May Cry 3 works the same way, why is it not in the book? On that basis, every popamole AAA game could be shown, because nowadays every game features XP and skills.

You shouldn't forget that this book about CRPGs, not games which have some RPG elements.
When I ask for feedback, I'm asking about things like this. Why you guys don't bash the book so I can improve it? :(

Is it because we're bros? I'm gonna move to the Watch, declare myself a SJW, write on Gamasutra about how Mass Effect is the best game ever and blame a "toxic community" for my previous opinions. Maybe then the Codex will hate me and make a 20-page long thread criticizing the book, with huge rants from Hiver...

Edit: An article(s) about RPG mechanics in different genres should do. It may be either a big one about an overall impact or few smaller about RPG mechanics in RTS or action games
I think that's a good idea. Maybe a paragraph for each game which Felipe wants to feature in the book.
Yeah, I really like this idea. Make a separate section of the game for that, with an article on on Strategy+RPG, then Action+RPG, FPS+RPG, etc... It's a nice solution, I had thougth of including Witchaven and CyberMage as well, but adding them in an article about RPG elements in FPS makes much more sense. I can add a lot of curiosities and interesting stuff without wasting too many pages of losing focus. I liked it. :)

octavius , let's skip Lords of Midnight for now then, I'll come back to it when I have thought out this article idea better and know what length & style we need. We can definitely still use what you wrote. Can you do Magic Candle then? It's a very important game, so it would be nice to have someone that writes well like you.
 
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Edit: An article(s) about RPG mechanics in different genres should do. It may be either a big one about an overall impact or few smaller about RPG mechanics in RTS or action games
I think that's a good idea. Maybe a paragraph for each game which Felipe wants to feature in the book.
Yeah, I really like this idea. Make a separate section of the game for that, with an article on on Strategy+RPG, then Action+RPG, FPS+RPG, etc... It's a nice solution, I had thougth of including Witchaven and CyberMage as well, but adding them in an article about RPG elements in FPS makes much more sense. I can add a lot of curiosities and interesting stuff without wasting too many pages of losing focus. I liked it. :)

So my brilliant idea had helped to save some space. Maybe enough for the article we were discussing earlier.
:troll:
 

Mastermind

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Yeah, I really like this idea. Make a separate section of the game for that, with an article on on Strategy+RPG, then Action+RPG, FPS+RPG, etc... It's a nice solution, I had thougth of including Witchaven and CyberMage as well, but adding them in an article about RPG elements in FPS makes much more sense. I can add a lot of curiosities and interesting stuff without wasting too many pages of losing focus. I liked it. :)

I don't like this idea. All RPGs are hybrids, without exception. Character development on its own does not make a game, it's usually tacked on at least one other system (IE: Fallout and its tbs combat and light point and click adventure elements). I'd simply include any game with significant character building in the main list and call it a day. This'll necessitate a degree of subjectivity in the end but so would any other solution.
 

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There has to be a cutting point somewhere, otherwise I need to cover Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, Metal Gear Solid: Revengeance and Saints Row 3 in the main list as well.
 

octavius

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This goes into the same issue... these strategy/RPG hybrids are a big deal and I want to include them in the book, but I'm still unsure of how.... there are so many of them, and it's a "Define RPG" slippery slope... it's hard to include some but not add stuff like Sword of Aragon, Dawn of War II, Warcraft III, Masters of Magic, Lords of Magic, Dark Omen, Age of Wonder, Dragonshard, Spellforce, Eador, HOMM, etc... hell, even Total War and RoTK.

Games like Sword of Aragon, Age of Wonders and HoMM have all the CRPG ingredients: story, character development (stats, skills, items), tactical combat and exploration. The irony is that it's what they add to the formula (armies, strategy and city development) that no longer make them CRPGs.
 

felipepepe

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Yeah, it's funny, but that's how things go... If you take a fighting game like Street Figther, add multiple enemies and a big scrolling level you get a beat'em up like Streets of Rage... every game is building on top of another.
 

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This goes into the same issue... these strategy/RPG hybrids are a big deal and I want to include them in the book, but I'm still unsure of how.... there are so many of them, and it's a "Define RPG" slippery slope... it's hard to include some but not add stuff like Sword of Aragon, Dawn of War II, Warcraft III, Masters of Magic, Lords of Magic, Dark Omen, Age of Wonder, Dragonshard, Spellforce, Eador, HOMM, etc... hell, even Total War and RoTK.

Games like Sword of Aragon, Age of Wonders and HoMM have all the CRPG ingredients: story, character development (stats, skills, items), tactical combat and exploration. The irony is that it's what they add to the formula (armies, strategy and city development) that no longer make them CRPGs.
That's also a good point. Damn, I'm not envying Felipe for making these decisions. But, if it would be easy, we wouldn't be debating that what is an RPG, would we? :D
 

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The Magic Candle.
It's not entirely fresh in my mind, but I still feel like I could have written much more about it.

The Magic Candle is one of those rare CRPGs, along with Ultima 5, Betrayal at Krondor and Baldur's Gate 2, that does everything right. From background story, NPC interaction, puzzles, exploration and combat, Magic Candle does it all well, and the end product is a well rounded, solid CRPG.

The background story is a variation of the tired old "evil demon/mage/warlord is threatening to conquer all the world and only YOU can stop him" story, but the twist is that in this game the evil demon starts imprisoned in a Magic Candle, but the candle is melting, and the object of the game is to prevent the candle from melting down, and prevent the demon from escaping and wreaking havoc. There is a time limit, which is different based on the difficulty setting you choose.

So time is of essence in Magic Candle - literally. The logistics of time management is one of the things that sets Magic Candle apart from so many other CRPGs. Everything takes time, from traveling to memorizing spells, working for money and training skills. So while on a ship voyage that takes three days, your spell casters can memorize lots of spells, for example.

Which brings us to another novel thing in Magic Candle - the splitting of the party. It's possible to have some characters exploring a dungeon, while one character is making money in a city in another part of the world and yet another character is memorizing spells at an inn in a different town. Usually you'll want all you characters present in dungeons, though, but when exploring a city, it can be a good idea to have one character (preferably one with high charisma) do the exploring, while others make money, rest, train or memorize spells. The party splitting is also important in order to solve some of the problems in the game.

Magic Candle looks like an old Ultima game, where you control a party or a character on a top down map. There are several types of maps - the overland map, the castle and town maps, and the dungeon maps. Combat either takes place directly on the dungeon map, or it switches to a combat map if on the overland. The combat system is among the better turn based systems. It's not very complex, but has many unique features, like different kind of mushrooms you can eat to get various combat bonuses, the ability to side step attacks (if not blocked on the sides), and the ability to hit several rows of enemies with one arrow. It's quite simple, but also quite tactical and fun. The monsters are a mix of generic types like orcs and trolls, and original, exotic ones like hraffels, zorlims and bargs.

An important part of the game is talking to NPCs to piece together the big puzzle that is how to stop the Magic Candle from burning down. Lots and lots of note taking (or screen capping) is needed. The NPCs also have schedules like in Ultima 5-7, and finding them can sometimes be a challenge in itself. Some of them won't even leave their houses and you have to knock on their doors, but they won't open unless you adress them by their names.

Speaking of names, you can't name your own characters, but have to chose from around 30 NPCs to join your party. You take the role of Lukas, a young Ranger, and can recruit up to five companions, from five different races and nine different professions, who have different strengths and weaknesses. Most of them reappear in Magic Candle 2, and you can transfer from MC1 those who reappear in MC2, thus being able to recruit more powerful versions of them in MC2.

The characters have most of the traditional CRPG stats and skills, but also some rare ones like hunting and armourer, to unique ones like gem cutting, tailoring and carpentry. There are no XP or levels; stats and skills increase through various methods, from practice and training to more adventurous ones, and various characters have different aptitude in various stats and skills. The charisma stat is very important; without high charisma many NPCs won't even talk to you.

Magic Candle feels more like a simulation than most CRPGs do. You need lots of items to survive in the wilderness, like food, arrows, ropes, and many special items that are useful in dungeons. There is also a day and night cycle, need to sleep and rest, and need to repair weapons and armour. Shops open and close, and ships leave on certain days. If you like logistics you'll like Magic Candle.

If there are any negative things I can say about Magic Candle it's that the weapons and armour selection is rather sparse and there are no random drops, and maybe that the game is a bit too long, with too much combat towards the end. Skills and stats maxing before the end and no random loot, makes combat too much of a chore in the end.

Speaking of the end, Magic Candle has one of the most unique ways of winning a CRPG.
 
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octavius

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BTW, sorry for posting the reviews in the wrong thread; I see now there is a thread dedicated to them. :oops:
 

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BTW, sorry for posting the reviews in the wrong thread; I see now there is a thread dedicated to them. :oops:
No, there's no right place to post those. I've abandoned that thread some time ago, it's better to revise everything when the book is complete and you can see how the reviews complement each other. You know, have all Ultima reviews done so we can read them side by side and see if they are coherent.

Regarding the review, it's great, really sums up nicely a very complex game. I honestly didn't expect you to be so quick, I was gonna play the game a bit before , grab some screenshots and stuffies... My only complain is that tease about the ending... not that you should give spoilers, but having something like that in a guide sounds weird. Can you reveal a bit more without spoiling it?

But right now my doubt is how to tackle the sequels & spin-offs. From what I've been reading, MC1 is clearly the best game and the sequels are mostly "more of the same", with decreasing quality. If that's true, adding a paragraph at the end about the sequels & prequels should complete the review. I'll look more into this, but what's your opinion?
 

octavius

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[My only complain is that tease about the ending... not that you should give spoilers, but having something like that in a guide sounds weird. Can you reveal a bit more without spoiling it?

Which part? About the last part being a bit tedious or about the actual ending?

But right now my doubt is how to tackle the sequels & spin-offs. From what I've been reading, MC1 is clearly the best game and the sequels are mostly "more of the same", with decreasing quality. If that's true, adding a paragraph at the end about the sequels & prequels should complete the review. I'll look more into this, but what's your opinion?

That's my impression too. I only played a bit of MC2, but I was disappointed that the party splitting had been removed or crippled, and that the town was too big and empty, making it a problem finding NPCs. From what I've read it's also more combat heavy than MC1.
 

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There has to be a cutting point somewhere

Yes, there needs to be a cutting point, but the cutting point should not be on which genre blend the RPG is made out of since all RPGs are genre blends.

otherwise I need to cover Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, Metal Gear Solid: Revengeance and Saints Row 3 in the main list as well.

Adding games like Puzzle Quest on the existing list already set the bar pretty low.
 

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Which part? About the last part being a bit tedious or about the actual ending?
This part: "Speaking of the end, Magic Candle has one of the most unique ways of winning a CRPG."

Yes, there needs to be a cutting point, but the cutting point should not be on which genre blend the RPG is made out of since all RPGs are genre blends.
There's a difference between a RPG with RTS elements and a RTS with RPG elements. One is Baldur's Gate, the other is Warcraft 3.
 

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
There's a difference between a RPG with RTS elements and a RTS with RPG elements. One is Baldur's Gate, the other is Warcraft 3.

Baldur's Gate has real time tactical elements, like a Commandos with stats. Saying it has RTS elements is a pretty big stretch. Baldur's Gate would also not stop being a RPG if you added base/troop building and management, it would simply expand on another facet of gameplay. A better comparison is between Warlords Battlecry 3 and Warcraft 3. Both have clear, well developed RTS elements but one has a well developed character system on par with Baldur's Gate (which is what makes it an RPG) while the other is Warcraft 3.
 

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