On the shoulders of giants: a new multiple choices LP!

[Tigranes]

C doesn't make much sense, the river is clearly dangerous.

I say B, just to move this thing along a bit after the hiatus.

 

[Vernydar]

I don't understand, do you guys really want the fire theocracy? Because that's where your votes are going...

 

[Stygian Lurker]

B

 

[Bloodshifter]

B We need the supplies the mountain has coal and obsidian without them se might as well go peaceful and recruit more bears TO THE MOUNTAIN!!!








Edit:
also the wielder just saved the group without him we might have walked(rowed) right into the poisonous air and lost this group looking for obsidian.

 

[Vernydar]

There is NO coal and obsidian to be found there anymore, it's obvious....

And the wielder is obviously just biding his time, mark my words

 

[Clotstein]

A_ Fuck this shit. We'll all return like little Ignuses if we keep going. We'll check the mountains near the lake instead.

 

[Kipeci]

I don't understand, do you guys really want the fire theocracy? Because that's where your votes are going...

I'd be okay with that, actually, though I doubt just going over to check things out at the volcano will get us there. What's so bad with his rule as opposed to the current one, anyway?

 

[Bloodshifter]

how is it obvious we are still a day's march from the mountain and Obsidian is volcanic glass right after a eruption it will be swimming in the stuff. all the coal on the surface is probably gone though

 

[Vernydar]

I'd be okay with that, actually, though I doubt just going over to check things out at the volcano will get us there. What's so bad with his rule as opposed to the current one, anyway?

Do you really want your reaction to any meeting to be: submit and convert or die? No trade, no exchange, no alliances, nothing?

Not to mention, what would the mysterious figures think if THAT guy becomes our leader after we destroyed the northern fire ward? There is a limit to suicidal

 

[Bloodshifter]

Vern your metagaming now we as tribe don't know about the shadows

 

[Kipeci]

I haven't seen much evidence that our social interactions would be limited to only those with the Keeper in charge... and even if they were, there are already plenty of other peoples worshipping fire in the world, such as the folks who warned us about the impending eruption earlier. What exactly prevents us from so much as trading with him?

We haven't been playing much of a diplomatic game, anyhow. As to the mysterious figures... what are you going on about?

 

[Vernydar]

I will admit that the tribe does not know about those figures. But WE have been told, and I bet it's not just for some cheap theatrics.

But apart that, this guy is clearly a fanatic. Fanatics do not trade, fanatics do not make peaceful alliances, fanatics do not live peacefully at ALL. They conquer and convert, like he did when we "peacefully absorbed" the small tribe on the lake. I remember you, he BURNED ALIVE the ones who protested. Very diplomatic.

Besides, he's chaotic evil if I've ever seen one. If you do not realize this, considering how cartoonish evil he is, you need to play more old bioware games.

 

[Clotstein]

Wielder in a power position = bloody conquest campaign, ending with our destruction. We need his powers and the knowledge to harness the magic of the fire spirits. We do *not* need him in charge of the tribe.
He must be kept in a short leash.

 

[Kipeci]

If a fanatic can't live peacefully, how is it that he's put up with shoveling shit for, how long was it, months, years? Obeying that humiliating order for that long hardly makes him seem to fit the 'chaotic' portion of that chaotic evil, doesn't it?

Anyway, there's no problem with conquest and conversion at this point. You surely don't need to be reminded that our territory is a speck on a map with only a few hundred people to it, right? We need to start ramping up our numbers, and the Wielder's attempts to convert some of the lake people have yielded far more results in far shorter a time than anything else we've tried, and furthermore they're pretty devoted. We're going to have to deal with other powers at some point, but currently that department is a bit lacking. All that's around us are scattered, disorganized water worshippers on the lake coast and some barbarians in the forest. We've already got the forest barbarians to admit that the people of the lake coast are definitely in our sphere of influence and we've got another concession in them not bothering us; therefore, let's expand past the point of complete insignificance. The Wielder is best suited to enact this expansion.

 

[Vernydar]

I can't deny that he would be effective at conquest. At first. But he would also severely limit our choices in many situations, at least at first.

I'll quote Curufinwe's first post. It is EXACTLY this case.
"Our starting civilization will be very flavorless, a blank slate to be written upon with very open outcomes. In the future, depending on how the society evolves, I will most likely limit the choices depending on what we've become (for example, don't expect a warlike theocracy meeting another group to have the option 'Trade', at least in the beginning)."

I think we're better off being able to decide freely what we want to do, instead of attack first anyway and then maybe talk if things don't go as planned. And yes i want to expand and flourish, but not like that.

I'd much rather have a solid, no-nonsense expansion and conquest plan than a fanatical nation. I'll say it again, my ideal is the militaristic expansion of the Roman empire. And if magic or "power" exists, same thing. I'd rather have a pantheon, a balanced study in all branches of "power", than, YES, FIRE!!! KILL EVERY UNBELIEVER!!! AND WATER SHAMANS ARE FIRST!!!!

And regarding the shit shoveling, he's a DEVIOUS fanatic. He's biding his time. This does not make him good or lawful you know, he's just waiting for the right chance

 

[Bloodshifter]

Bah all this talk won't change the elder's mind (us) all its doing is cluttering the single piece of long ass paper we got (forums)

 

[Kipeci]

I think we're better off being able to decide freely what we want to do, instead of attack first anyway and then maybe talk if things don't go as planned. And yes i want to expand and flourish, but not like that.

Adopting a specific government would almost certainly give options of its own. We're probably going to have three to four options of whatever regardless of whatever path we go, it's reducing our options in one area while expanding them in another. And anyway, it doesn't say that diplomacy is impossible. I don't even intend on us being a theocracy of flames forever, but it suits our needs for the moment and it's much better in my mind to have an awesome fire lord at the head of our people than a crusty tribal council of elders or whatever we're currently operating as.

I'd much rather have a solid, no-nonsense expansion and conquest plan than a fanatical nation. I'll say it again, my ideal is the militaristic expansion of the Roman empire.

Why are you implying that expansion under the leader would be 'nonsense'? He wants to conquer out the area around the lake and convert them to our beliefs if possible. This would establish us as more of a regional power and also assimilate a lot of the lake people under our rule, providing a good first step for the integration of our peoples. We need some base to start off of before we can even consider going further, and the Wielder is both among the most willing and capable of our agents towards that end, as he has already proven.

And if magic or "power" exists, same thing. I'd rather have a pantheon, a balanced study in all branches of "power", than, YES, FIRE!!! KILL EVERY UNBELIEVER!!! AND WATER SHAMANS ARE FIRST!!!!

Regardless of what you'd rather have, the point is that the only real magic we know of right now is fire magic and currently no other magical wielders are popping up to prove us wrong. The point is not to kill unbelievers; it is to convert them, which isn't particularly hard at the moment considering how our Wielder of Flames currently appears to be a one of a kind deal. If we were to bump into a Wielder of Water, it would become obvious that those worshippers have something going on and we could bump them up to a similar level of respect as fire; as for now, though, it's best to take advantage of the fact that our Wielder of Flame is pretty much proof of our religion. Also: anyone stupid enough to disbelieve in the fire when the prophet of its religion is casting up columns of flames probably should have been killed off anyway to avoid the chance of them contaminating our gene pool.

You also might want to check how the Fire Wielder is appearing downright tolerant among the water believers in our midst, anyway.

And regarding the shit shoveling, he's a DEVIOUS fanatic. He's biding his time. This does not make him good or lawful you know, he's just waiting for the right chance

He's had the right chance to take over for pretty much as long as he's been around! He's the physical embodiment of our religion with ridiculously amazing powers, had already been in an authority position to boot, he's a war hero and he's perfectly willing to teach people to lob around fireballs. A person of his caliber is being forced to waste his talents in shoveling shit because the council was angry about him teaching our people some fire magic! I don't know about you, but if I were one of our people, I'd support this guy over our tribal council in a rebellion, definitely. He has a good chunk of public support, and even without it there's little to stop him from just incinerating the council and keeping everyone in line with threats anyway if he were to be as 'cartoonishly evil' as you have time after time suggested him to be. Yet, he's never taken that step, or done much of anything beyond grumbling while accepting our punishments. How do you explain that?

 

[Bloodshifter]

Kipeci makes an excellent point I believe the Keeper is somehow working with or following orders under some sort of higher power and only listens to him (he sits staring into fire for goodness sakes) that is why he is making no moves against us AND not really thrashing the water shaman because he knows that there are other Keepers of Elements (<- this is of course meta gaming a bit more so towards the end)

 

[Tigranes]

Yeah, it seems like he definitely doesn't want to rule with an iron fist, he'd rather take power with the support of our tribespeople. He's loyal to the tribe first and foremost, and while we may not want him to do whatever he wants, we'd be foolish to continue to cockblock everything he does.

 

[Kz3r0]

B.

 

[Smashing Axe]

B - Fire for the fire god

Nice to finally find the time to read all these posts. Will continue to follow.

 

[TOME]

Also: anyone stupid enough to disbelieve in the fire when the prophet of its religion is casting up columns of flames probably should have been killed off anyway to avoid the chance of them contaminating our gene pool.

Don't do this. Christians did that, and look how stupid most of the people turned to be.

And also.
B. Listen to the Wielder. The expedition still has a mission. Going on foot would provide more versatility, and you can't stand navigating the disgusting river anymore.
Send one boat back to report to the council if I might add.

 

[Kipeci]

Don't do this. Christians did that, and look how stupid most of the people turned to be.

When was that? I mean, I know that some varieties of Christians have done plenty of killing of people who refuse to believe the religion/believe a slightly different version, but that's in a rather different context from this. Here the Wielder tells us we believe in a religion about fire, demonstrates a powerful and unnatural control of the fire, and some people don't believe despite seeing proof of it right in front of them because they're idiots and so he burns them to death. That's not quite the same as a man being torched to death because he believes his translation of a thousand year old text is marginally more accurate than the Church and the Church disagress with him.

 

[oscar]

B. We need our obsidian.

 

[Internet]

C