On the shoulders of giants: a new multiple choices LP!

[Esquilax]

B

No need to decline our men with gaudy jewellery.

B

Yeah, I think that we are developing into a somewhat austere people. It's unlikely that we are ever going to be entrepreneurial merchant types... which is both good and bad, I guess. It's a shame to have a great commercial resource like a river (and fishing boats) with such an emerging culture that is so disdainful of wealth and class, but there are advantages to it as well. It unites us and ensures that we won't become soft, corrupt and decadent. I have a feeling that C would end up helping us in terms of culture a lot.

That leaves A and B. The advantages of A in the long-term are great - the charcoal we've found could help us forge strong metals in the future. Metallurgy is well worth the investment, so it isn't just appeasing our religious leaders at play here. However B seems more practical, immediate and makes more sense from the POV of our tribesmen. I know if I were living in our tribe, the first thing I'd want is to have a roof over my head. Wood has lots of other advantages too - we could start fashioning bows, fences for our flocks, makeshift walls, more boats and get to scout downriver and trade, etc.

I'm still willing to flop to A if I hear a good argument. Charcoal seems like a great resource to have.

Jick_Magger_101: That's true, but at the same time we can't hide forever and we're going to need metalworking regardless. If we wanted to run and hide, we could have done so earlier.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Voting B.

New resources are a good thing - wood for better weapons, tools, shelters, fences, watchtowers and boats. A is kind of pointless for now as we can just use wood for fire - we don't need extra fuel for anything yet. C leads to some native metal crafts, but I find it doubtful we are going to get to metalworking this easy. We need furnaces first and one way to get them is through pottery.

 

[Jick Magger]

Jick_Magger_101: That's true, but at the same time we can't hide forever and we're going to need metalworking regardless. If we wanted to run and hide, we could have done so earlier.

That's true, but as Zero Credibility noted we still don't have the resources necessary to even dream of metalworking. Burning the coal, especially since we don't have any static defences set up, would be needlessly drawing attention to ourselves.

 

[Kipeci]

This isn't metalwork, this is stringing pretty pebbles together or whatever. The closest we'd get to 'metalworking' is wrapping gold around a necklace, it's nothing high tech yet.

You would be surprised and also were looking at the trees for houses not for weapons

The option doesn't say anything about bringing home the wood to make houses (and why would we need those when we have perfectly reasonable caves?), it just says we bring home lumps of wood because some hunters think they could use it for 'something'. From the point of view of the tribesmen, you have tinkering around the burning coal to impress the firekeepers for A, letting the hunters bring home chunks of wood for B, and impressing the womenfolk with fancy stones for C. Doing C has plenty of immediate in-character benefits to be found.

 

[m4davis]

Quite simply cause its not a good place to defend your self from its cold unless we put a fire in every cave we want it to be open for mining in the future and its just plain out overly dangerous

 

[Vernydar]

B

It's the first step to actually building something. Sure, A may be a stepping block towards metallurgy. But in my opinion, finally getting a roof over our heads is the first priority we have, and wood can be used for a lot of other things.

Basically, wood is our first material for actually building something. A chance NOT to waste. Think about it, with some sort of shelter and the possibility of actually make buildings our numbers will greatly increase. No longer our people will die to cold or other common environmental hazards. Not to mention, granaries, fortifications, boats, precincts, anything else really.


By the way, I am quite surprised nobody noticed.... you all DO realize that the scouting party sent to the caverns mysteriously disappeared right? Curufinwe said they left for the caverns... and then didn't mention them again. I bet whatever you want he has not forgotten about them, and that they either found something, or something found them

 

[Omicron]

B

 

[Kipeci]

Quite simply cause its not a good place to defend your self from its cold unless we put a fire in every cave we want it to be open for mining in the future and its just plain out overly dangerous

A cave is an excellent insulator, actually. Many caves are described as rather cool, but if you heat them up with a fire, they'll stay warm... now, wood houses are much more porous, especially since we don't have the technology to fill in any gaps in the wood unless we use our own waste or something. You'd still need fires to get them to be warm whenever the sun isn't out, but they have the added bonus of being flammable! Let's not rush to build houses when we haven't gone near filling up the caves. Boats and the like can be left to the river guys to brainstorm, we had our opportunity to take that route earlier and we stuck to going on up to a mountain.

 

[m4davis]

did you even take into account my other points or other peoples points sorry but wood houses are still a better idea then the caves

 

[Kipeci]

Yes, I did take into account those points. I addressed some reasons why caves might be better housing. You said that caves were not good to fight against the cold; I provided reasons why caves would be good such as 'it's insulated without having to smear our shit in the cracks,' 'less likely to catch on fire,' and 'we'll need to have less fires in the first place'. As to the one where you said fires could be dangerous to mining operations, well, when that time comes, we can always cut out the fires next to our mining operation. Caves tend to keep rather stable temperatures, it's not like we'd freeze to death without a fire... and besides, we aren't anywhere near any sort of metallurgy, let alone mass extraction of ores from the caves.

 

[m4davis]

I'am not saying fires would be dangerous to a mining operation I'am saying that people living there would be also I mentioned that caves aren't a defensible warfare position either not to mention as said by other people that the people we sent to explore them didn't come back.

 

[oscar]

Housing will come precisely when we run out of caves. No sooner.

 

[Hirato]

B seems the obvious choice...

We should probably look into researching the local herbs and plants after this

 

[Kipeci]

I'am not saying fires would be dangerous to a mining operation I'am saying that people living there would be also I mentioned that caves aren't a defensible warfare position either not to mention as said by other people that the people we sent to explore them didn't come back.

... What are you trying to say for the first part? Anyway, yes, I suppose one could make the argument that being trapped inside a cave for a home could be a bad military predicament if an approaching army were to arrive, depending on if the cave has any other exits, a source of water in case of a seige, all of that. So would being trapped in a wooden house. But at least living in a cave, one would have the option to block off the entrance and turn it into a siege, as opposed to getting obliterated immediately by guys kicking in the door of their shit-hut and shanking them in the kidneys.

I wouldn't worry about our tactical situation too much. We're pretty close to a decently sized mountain and behind a river from many threats, which really helps to slow any potential invasion. We have the opportunity to retreat into the caves or run off with our zebra herds, and we can see for miles around from a higher perspective on our mountain (which is why I advocated for the permanent scouting area up top, but so much for that.) Unless a dragon flies in and ruins our day with flames down our neck, we should have good warning before we're attacked.

As for the explorers not coming back, that was neither confirmed nor denied. You'll recall that all that update mentioned was that we'd found a lot of resources in terms of trees and rocks, but it wasn't quite clear on whether or not this was a compilation of what was found by both sides or just the slope scouts. It's a bit premature to assume that everyone died horribly.

 

[m4davis]

For the first part I'am saying if we house people there they are going to be angry when we send miners into there homes as for sealing it off thats one of the reasons its a bad idea because if we seal it off they can easily make that seal permeant and that would cause us to run out of air food and water without them even having to be there not to mention they can just burn and loot everything we own its a better idea to build out side housing then in the future build a wall around it then to sleep in the caves.

I will agree it hasn't been confirmed or denied which is why we should go the safer path with confirmed benefits which in this case is A you voted C which could very well just lead to the invention of the idea of a wedding ring instead of a population boost your looking for

 

[Lindblum]

B, Research into multipurpose wood!

A, best to only use this magic fuel when we need it. Firebombing etc...
C, we don't need douchbags this early in time.

 

[Kipeci]

For the first part I'am saying if we house people there they are going to be angry when we send miners into there homes

By the time we get big enough to actually need any miners being sent into the caves, based solely off of the assumption that we do have any valuable minerals in those caves, we're almost certainly going to be so much larger a group that we no longer have to care about whether those guys are happy or not because we could just stab them to put them in their place. It's not like it'd be any different if we found neat stuff underneath log cabins.

as for sealing it off thats one of the reasons its a bad idea because if we seal it off they can easily make that seal permeant and that would cause us to run out of air food and water without them even having to be there

Did you miss all of what I wrote? It's at least an option to be put under siege rather than being immediately and violently liberated of all our nephrons by prison shivs, whereas if we got a surprise invasion and lived in wooden cabins, we don't have that choice. Why did you also glaze over everything about all the warnings we'd have for most invasion attempts?

not to mention they can just burn and loot everything we own

Because wooden houses cannot be looted or burned.

its a better idea to build out side housing then in the future build a wall around it then to sleep in the caves.

No, for the moment cave housing is superior, we will come to building other structures for shelter once we actually need it. But for now, there's not much of a reason for why we should start a spree building of shit huts.

I will agree it hasn't been confirmed or denied which is why we should go the safer path with confirmed benefits which in this case is A

A is impressing priests by burning away future resources... where's the confirmed benefit?

you voted C which could very well just lead to the invention of the idea of a wedding ring instead of a population boost your looking for

The women want us to bring in these pebbles. Doing so would make them happy. This theoretically would get the guys laid, thus increasing the population. Seems simple to me.

C, we don't need douchbags this early in time.

I think we need as many as possible right now, if we want to be on the winning side of history.

 

[m4davis]

did you not listen to me I'am saying that they can make the seal permeant that means that its no longer a siege its a death sentence also I'am not saying that wood houses can't be burned I'am saying that it won't matter if we go in the caves for it all your getting with that path is more danger for no more benefits then its already there

 

[oscar]

you voted C which could very well just lead to the invention of the idea of a wedding ring instead of a population boost your looking for

The women want us to bring in these pebbles. Doing so would make them happy. This theoretically would get the guys laid, thus increasing the population. Seems simple to me.

What do you mean get guys laid? In these times, if you want it you take it (but take someone else's and you get a club to the head). Not to mention the fact that having to give gifts in the hopes of getting laid sounds tragically beta.

I really don't see your argument*, m4davis. At all. I don't think our entire militia is going to be deployed in a single cave and then sealed in, no. And a cave with a fire is pretty warm. Our people are doing just fine inside caves (as people did for hundreds of thousands of years). This really is a non-issue. Are you a claustrophobe who freaks out at the thought of being in a cave or something?


*though to be fair, I sort of skim your posts as reading them too closely gives me a headache

 

[m4davis]

I know that our caves aren't going to house are entire militia its just he said to use it as a siege shelter which really wouldn't work because they could seal it in a way we couldn't get out without explosives theres a reason cave ins are dangerous and its not just because of falling rocks

 

[oscar]

Yeah they'd be terrible as siege shelters. But as housing they're just fine.

 

[m4davis]

yeah but huts would be better thats pretty much the whole reason for this argument are caves or huts better housing

 

[Esquilax]

What do you mean get guys laid? In these times, if you want it you take it (but take someone else's and you get a club to the head). Not to mention the fact that having to give gifts in the hopes of getting laid sounds tragically beta.

I really don't see your argument*, m4davis. At all. I don't think our entire militia is going to be deployed in a single cave and then sealed in, no. And a cave with a fire is pretty warm. Our people are doing just fine inside caves (as people did for hundreds of thousands of years). This really is a non-issue. Are you a claustrophobe who freaks out at the thought of being in a cave or something?

Actually, it would be the women of the tribe bestowing our hunters with the gifts, not the other way around. But still, while it seems like something that could help culturally and perhaps economically, we have nobody to trade with at the moment and there are more pressing needs.

I don't like the idea of setting up in the cave because it seems like a disaster in the event of a siege. Block the entrance with enough men, and everybody will starve. There are so many great uses and opportunities for woodworking: boats, housing, shields, atlatl to make throwing spears deadlier, firewood to honor the spirits, possible creation of art, etc.

m4davis: I agree with oscar and Jick Magger, please use punctuation. If you're not willing to put a period at the end of your sentences so that your posts are more legible, then I'm not willing to read them.

 

[Jick Magger]

*though to be fair, I sort of skim your posts as reading them too closely gives me a headache

Yeah man, I know I'm late in commenting on this, but I have a natural aversion to reading your posts because of how long-winded and unpunctuated they are. I may be more inclined to agree with whatever you're saying if it weren't for the fact that reading it makes my eyes hurt.

 

[Internet]

B, let's start with the basics. I don't see the tribe as "disdainful of wealth and class" yet, we are just too primitive to develop a taste for anything that doesn't answer a basic need (and we haven't had the chance to start trading with somebody else yet). The situation can change later as we advance.