On the shoulders of giants: a new multiple choices LP!

[SCO]

I didn't vote because i thought that all of those options will eventually be explored.
I mean you'd have to be pretty thick considering they've already thought of the alternatives and they are not exclusive like choosing where to travel (except maybe scouting downriver and scouting the mountain, but only temporarily so).

 

[Curufinwe]

Alright. Here's the first episode of what I plan to become a periodic eagle-eye view of our tribe-nation-empire as I see it. There will be various categories with my comments.

Interlude I: Pre-Update X

Our nation is a tribe (still nameless, still waiting for proposals), about two hundreds and fifty men strong, starting its slow climb from the abyss of ignorance. In the first ten updates we moved from an inhospitable forest first to plains then to the base of a great mountain, always in the pursuit of that very basic of necessities that is food. We learned to tame zebras, we learned to use fire and not much else.

Government

The tribe is run by a council of elders who take all kind of decisions and provide to the run-of-the-mill work of daily survival. Supporting this structure are various 'castes' or 'groups of interest': the hunters, the animal tamers (although recently somewhat diminished in importance after a greedy attempt to gain more power), the scavengers and the Keepers of fire.
So far it worked pretty well, we'll see later.

Culture

Culture.... er, right, next category.

Economics

As probably obvious and right for a small tribe, collectivism is the way. The tribe owns everything and parcels it out to those who need it. It's the most efficient way to survive.

Military

The tribe has no military worth speaking of. When it needs to deal with dangerous animals it turns to the hunters, which is not saying much. Your average hunter is a pelt-wearing, bone or wood club toting man whose main advantage is his survival skills.

Science

The tribe knows just a few basics: scavenging for roots, taming animals for meat and skins and carrying burden, fire as a cooking implement and a tactical tool for directing herds in the right direction.

Religion

The only religion for now is the worship of fire. Its survival is guaranteed by the monopoly kept by the Keepers on all things fire: lighting fires, handling fires, extinguishing them, all shrouded in ritualistic mumbo-jumbo. There are a few, almost secretive animal worshipers left (the fire cult originated from a few lunatics thinking the buffalo was a sacred spirit afterall) but they are of no real consequence.

 

[oscar]

I imagined there would be a genetics section, as you've noted it a few times.

 

[Curufinwe]

I imagined there would be a genetics section, as you've noted it a few times.

Genetics as in?

 

[AstralStorm]

I'll vote B, a steady source of food is more important and will allow the tribe to grow strong.
We can explore the mountains or downstream later.

However, C might open some shepherding and hunting options, who knows.
I still think the tribe is too small to attempt that right now.
(On the order of hundred people?)

 

[oscar]

I was thinking things like our strength, stature, average heigh, appearance (though that might give away where we are), that sorta thing. Was just thinking of how you said that when we crossed the plains quite a few of the weaker tribe members died, improving our genetic stock.

Not required of course and in retrospect it probably hasn't been enough time to really know those kinds of things.

 

[Curufinwe]

I was thinking things like our strength, stature, average heigh, appearance (though that might give away where we are), that sorta thing. Was just thinking of how you said that when we crossed the plains quite a few of the weaker tribe members died, improving our genetic stock.

Not required of course and in retrospect it probably hasn't been enough time to really know those kinds of things.

Ah, now I see what you mean. To be honest didn't really think of that so far. Was kind of leaving it to your imagination. :D

 

[Vernydar]

My commentary to the commentary:

About the tribe, I did not think we'd already be 250. More like 100 or so but hey I'm not complaining. I'm happy with our current location, it is a good spot for food, water, improving our knowledge, and eventually building a village and much more later a city.

Government
The council of elder + a sort of "caste" system is good I think for now. It's a good form of government for a tribe that's living peacefully. It's not ideal for war, but hey for now we do not have those kind of problems so it's all good.

Culture
We need to improve this as soon as possible. Right now we have none, which is not surprising, but it must be a priority to us. After all, culture is extremely important in order to get more knowledge, and we WANT knowledge.

Economics
We have collectivism, it's good for now. Barter would be good later on, but we're still at the stage of: eat of die. It's too early to have commerce of any kind now....

Military
This is a problem, we need to get better weapons soon. We only have clubs, we do not have spears or stone axes yet. This is not good, really not good. I thin k we're still safe from other tribes for a while, but there may be dangerous creatures around....

Science
Scavenging, fire and taming are all good, but there's at least two things we need fast.
The first are stone tools, which are essential for skinning building better weapons, and a lot of other things.
The second is shelter. I suppose some tents would be ok, but huts would be better yet. We need shelter, it's essential to improve quality of life, improve life expectancy, and obviously increase our numbers.
Of course we still need everything else too, but I think these two are a priority

Religion
We have a religion of fire spirit, that's good because fire is always useful. Eventually we will want more, for two reasons. First, religion helps culture, which in turns improves science. Second, religion is a powerful morale factor, be it during war, during troubled times, and during life in general. We DO want motivated, high morale people.


In short our most urgent areas to improve are, I think:
- better weapons
- shelter
- stone tools
- start working on culture.

As for what I am aiming for, I want a strong, militaristic, civilized society for the foreseeable future. Think of the Roman Empire at its peak...

 

[oscar]

Yeah. I'm thinking conservative (but not to the point of backwardness), patriotic, militaristic and halfway between the civilization and barbarity scale so we don't become too decadent/soft or too chaotic and backwards. Robert E. Howard has had it's influence on me

 

[SCO]

And i'm thinking completely pacifist

i'm going to vote against any and all military endeavors



Take Howard and Lovecraft and stuck it up your ass

 

[oscar]

ban SCO

 

[Kz3r0]

And i'm thinking completely pacifist

i'm going to vote against any and all military endeavors



Take Howard and Lovecraft and stuck it up your ass

You forgot Heinlein and Burroughs.

 

[oscar]

And what? Be some peace pipe smoking, holding hands in peace, tree worshipping Injuns until our little village gets overrun by U.S cavalry and our women raped and we fall into destitution until they feel guilty 200 years later and give us some casinos and we're half-caste alcoholics?

 

[Lindblum]

C time to enslave female Sasquatches and give rise to the ultimate being.

 

[Vernydar]

SCO, I am a pacifist too, but only under some conditions:
- We have ample lands for our people
- We are at least as technologically advanced as everyone around us
- We have a bigger military than anyone around us.
Under these conditions, which means we are prepared if someone attacks us, I am a pacifist too and we can aim for the United Federation of Galaxies :p

Si vis pacem, para bellum

That said, if this world is not earth and we get magic, psionics, and/or supernatural being and events, I want us to be at the foremost of research about these things

 

[Jick Magger]

To be honest, dem' Injuns were mean motherfuckers once you gave them some muskets and fire water. It's just that modern-day liberal revisionists like to pretend the mighty whities were a bunch of big ol' meanies to the noble, pacifistic savages who only ever fought with rocks and sticks because they would not sully their hands with 'dishonourable' modern weapons.

Speaking of fire water. We should try and make that as soon as possible. Nothing motivates people more than getting sloshed all the damn time.

 

[Kz3r0]

To be honest, dem' Injuns were mean motherfuckers once you gave them some muskets and fire water. It's just that modern-day liberal revisionists like to pretend the mighty whities were a bunch of big ol' meanies to the noble, pacifistic savages.

Apches(enemy) were called like that by all the other tribes, and they were proud of it, unfortunately the other tribes gladly allied themselves with Whitey to slaughter them, and squaws in general were considered less than cattle, only some tribe had the traits of the noble savage

 

[oscar]

Just take a common sense approach. If we can kick their ass and there's a good reward in it (natural resources we're lacking, slaves, elimination of a quickly growing rival that in time could provide a military challenge) go for it. Pacifism for the sake of pacifism is long-term suicide. Just as endless military expansion would bleed us dry and spur our enemies to put aside their differences to beat us up (think 18th century France or Nazi Germany).

We haven't even met other humans yet so its likely a bit too early to bother speculating about these things. With all this fertile grassland I imagine captured slaves will be useful (and free us up to fight and craft).

 

[Jick Magger]

Mind you, we're at the base of a geographical feature that can probably be seen for miles around, and is right next to a river, which has been a gathering point of life for millennia. Encountering other humans is probably gonna happen sooner rather than later. We'll probably want to move up to stone weapons ASAP, if only for the sheer technological advantage it would give us against whatever mamba-jambas might want to try and force us out of our little slice of heaven.

 

[Internet]

B. Time to acquire a new food resource and add variety to the tribe's diet.

 

[oscar]

Agreed, our long-term prospects are good but we really need to push on the weaponry and defense front so we can settle down and focus on growing to a decent size (which shouldn't be too hard with all the fish, grass for the zebras and good agricultural land).

 

[SCO]

I'm already pissed the priests have technological monopoly on a important scientific resource. I guess this means they're going to have to be our "scientists". Unfortunately, this means a caste system right away since cults are not in the habit of sharing their secrets without much buttlicking.

I will vote for weapons research sure. Just don't expect me to go for military adventures. I want to keep city-state venice status for as long as possible
Maybe we can evolve the council of elders into a council of ten.
Although they were a aristocratic autocratic republican body the doge elections were highly resistant to tampering by design.

Spoiler

New regulations for the elections of the doge introduced in 1268 remained in force until the end of the republic in 1797. Their object was to minimize as far as possible the influence of individual great families, and this was effected by a complex elective machinery. Thirty members of the Great Council, chosen by lot, were reduced by lot to nine; the nine chose forty and the forty were reduced by lot to twelve, who chose twenty-five. The twenty-five were reduced by lot to nine and the nine elected forty-five. Then the forty-five were once more reduced by lot to eleven, and the eleven finally chose the forty-one who actually elected the doge. None could be elected but by at least twenty-five votes out of forty-one, nine votes out of eleven or twelve, or seven votes out of nine electors.[1] A detailed description of this process, and the ceremonial procession that followed, is preserved in Martin Da Canale's work 'Les Estoires de Venise' (English translation by Laura K. Morreale, Padua 2009).

 

[oscar]

Indeed, though it beats worshipping animals. As slight compensation, some actual skill in lighting and maintaining fires seems to be being maintained alongside the mumbo jumbo.

Venice definitely had more than their fair share of military adventures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Republic_of_Venice), and the Dalmatians, Croats, Greeks, Bulgarians, Turks, Hungarians and Geneose might have had something to say about the pacifism of the Venetians.

 

[SCO]

Does anyone here know when the fire-bow was invented? I mean that thing seems a ancient way of producing fire by "demand", but it's actually a highly sophisticated tool with multiple parts and a peculiar technique.
edit:
ahhh:

The bow drill appeared in Mehrgarh between the 4th and 5th millennium BCE.[1] This bow drill—used to drill holes into lapis lazuli and cornelian—was made of green jasper.[1] Similar drills were found in other parts of the Indus Valley Civilization and Iran one millennium later.

emphasis mine. wtf, waste of time man.

edit2: here is a wtf-worthy method

 

[oscar]

5th millennium BC at the Mehrgarh site in Pakistan is the oldest found one I believe.