Of female characters in RPG's

[KeighnMcDeath]

Exercising…. More like laboring in the fields and trying to stay alive. I doubt the average Neanderthal was doing calisthenics and Pilates as a daily routine.

 

[Iucounu]

If you don't care as much about realism and want the game to have similar opportunities for men and women then agility or intelligence and most things can be equal. Strength however even in non-realistic games shouldn't be equal, it is absurd.

But why is that any more absurd than the super-human abilities of many male characters? Sometimes game mechanics allow player characters to survive being shot multiple times with little consequence, or perform parkour feats not even a circus artist would pull off. I think what annoys many (like myself) is the woke fantasy that average women are as physically strong as average men, since that's clearly not the case and just gives the setting an air of ridicule and feminist penis envy (not to mention reminding us how physically unfit female game writers often are).

In a realistic game all you need to do is pit the uniquely strong female against more average male enemies. But it must always be clear that the woman in question is not average in any way, wether from training, genetics, cybernetic implants or magic. Or you might compensate an average female player character with a female bonus companion (optionally lesbian, to make everybody happy) that male player characters would not get. Problem solved!

Why can't be choice between man and woman an actual choice mechanics-wise? Just like a race is? It would be both more sensible and gives even more varied choices when it comes to creating characters.

Maybe male incel writers don't understand enough about women's tricks to implement them, while female incel writers are mostly SJWs?

Also, a major reason real women are weaker (on average) is due to the cost of childbearing, but how do you implement that mechanic in a game? Someone ITT mentioned a strategy game where more females give birth to more tribe members, but that's only useful in time frames spanning multiple generations.

 

[Iucounu]

The cause is probably the comfort and ease of civilization - "good times create weak men",

I think it's that males nowadays mostly sit at a desk all day instead of doing hard physical outdoor work. But even in 19th century novels there were plenty of male weaklings, here's a Russian example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblomov --not entirely different from modern gamers!

but also weak women, in terms of what were formerly "womanly wiles" that a young girl would observe older females exercising, and would learn to emulate.

Maybe girls learned those things to catch valuable husbands (and keep manipulating him after marriage)? It seems to me women are especially good at it in places where males have to pay a fortune to marry, while in places were sex before marriage is common (combined with social welfare for single mothers) seduction skills serve less purpose. Maybe it's a dying art in the Western world, both these books are decades old now:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manipulated_Man
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rules

 

[Iucounu]

In some settings I don't want to see any women at all. For example, in the Stalker Zone it makes no sense, any woman there would absolutely reek of woke ideology.

 

[NecroLord]

In some settings I don't want to see any women at all. For example, in the Stalker Zone it makes no sense, any woman there would absolutely reek of woke ideology.

Being surrounded by bandits...
The anomalies, mutants, Chimeras, mercenaries...

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

So, DUKE NUKEM YES to play

But

ION FURY NO to play?

Don’t play Tomb Raider MEGA TT&A Edition?

 

[NecroLord]

So, DUKE NUKEM YES to play

But

ION FURY NO to play?

Don’t play Tomb Raider MEGA TT&A Edition?

Why not both?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Indeed.

 

[Iucounu]

Exercising…. More like laboring in the fields and trying to stay alive. I doubt the average Neanderthal was doing calisthenics and Pilates as a daily routine.

Had to look it up, and as expected modern humans are weaklings in comparison:

How Strong Were Ancient Humans? Modern-Day Athletes Are a Window to the Past​

https://www.discovermagazine.com/pl...-modern-day-athletes-are-a-window-to-the-past

"the shins of Homo sapiens and Neanderthals between 40,000 and 120,000 years old appeared even more reinforced than those of cross-country athletes who’ve run 80 to 100 miles per week since adolescence. The implication: These early humans traveled far and wide in pursuit of daily needs.​

​

More recently, the approach revealed the hard work of Central Europe’s early farming women. It seems their daily grind, 2,000 to 7,000 years ago, was as strenuous as the training of elite female athletes today."​

Caveman vs. Modern Human: Who Would Win Olympic Gold?​

https://www.livescience.com/2747-caveman-modern-human-win-olympic-gold.html

"The chimp-like ancestor was like a power athlete," said Dan Lieberman, a biological anthropologist at Harvard University. "Much stronger and faster than humans, but they had no endurance."​

​

"A big male chimp weighs about 50 kilos [110 pounds], yet could easily rip the arm off someone," Lieberman noted. "You would never want to arm wrestle a chimpanzee."​

​

"Going to the gym, going on a bike ride, even most Olympic training doesn't do the same thing as having the same serious level of lifting, walking that people have done in the past," Trinkaus explained.​

 

[ropetight]

If you don't care as much about realism and want the game to have similar opportunities for men and women then agility or intelligence and most things can be equal. Strength however even in non-realistic games shouldn't be equal, it is absurd.

But why is that any more absurd than the super-human abilities of many male characters? Sometimes game mechanics allow player characters to survive being shot multiple times with little consequence, or perform parkour feats not even a circus artist would pull off. I think what annoys many (like myself) is the woke fantasy that average women are as physically strong as average men, since that's clearly not the case and just gives the setting an air of ridicule and feminist penis envy (not to mention reminding us how physically unfit female game writers often are).

In a realistic game all you need to do is pit the uniquely strong female against more average male enemies. But it must always be clear that the woman in question is not average in any way, wether from training, genetics, cybernetic implants or magic. Or you might compensate an average female player character with a female bonus companion (optionally lesbian, to make everybody happy) that male player characters would not get. Problem solved!

Why can't be choice between man and woman an actual choice mechanics-wise? Just like a race is? It would be both more sensible and gives even more varied choices when it comes to creating characters.

Maybe male incel writers don't understand enough about women's tricks to implement them, while female incel writers are mostly SJWs?

Also, a major reason real women are weaker (on average) is due to the cost of childbearing, but how do you implement that mechanic in a game? Someone ITT mentioned a strategy game where more females give birth to more tribe members, but that's only useful in time frames spanning multiple generations.

The gap in physical fitness between sexes is more pronounced than average egalitarian tends to believe.
Every year cca 500 american high school athletes run faster than fastest woman that year.

Across the board in sports that can be directly compared, you can expect top women result to be 90% of top men result.
Thousands of men can beat the top female athlete, and male top result will be usually more closely contested.

Top female athletes usually can beat average male in the sport they train; top sprinters or high jumpers rarely can bench press as an average male.

So, if you want your system to be grounded in reality, max women attributes should be 90% of men attributes.
And since warriors are not statistical median or average in fitness, some permanent penalty should be applied.
No matter if women are lesbian or not - Megan Rapinoe would suck in men football even though she licks.

 

[M. AQVILA]

But why is that any more absurd than the super-human abilities of many male characters?

This is actually the only reason I can stomach female warriors and the like in fantasy settings. Historical settings though? F that. That's why I can't bring myself to play the Expeditions series; too silly.

 

[Iucounu]

Top female athletes usually can beat average male in the sport they train;

Agreed.

top sprinters or high jumpers rarely can bench press as an average male.

Doesn't that apply to male sprinters vs bench pressers as well? At least bodybuilders and weight lifters seem pretty average at pullups due to their weight. But I digress...

 

[ropetight]

Top female athletes usually can beat average male in the sport they train;

Agreed.

top sprinters or high jumpers rarely can bench press as an average male.

Doesn't that apply to male sprinters vs bench pressers as well? At least bodybuilders and weight lifters seem pretty average at pullups due to their weight. But I digress...

To lesser degree than with women - males are more universal athletes too.
It is more common to find a strong man that has good cardio endurance than with woman.
That is why difference is biggest in sports that require combination of couple physical traits - like basketball of football.

Most universal, complex and toughest olympic track and field competition for men is decathlon.
Female equivalent is heptathlon, which consists of three hardest disciplines less, and difference in results per sex in disciplines is even bigger than in individual disciplines (100m, high jump, javelin, ...).

Usual army test for overall fitness is carrying 20-30% of your body weight on different long distances - usually 20-50km.
If you can't do it in required time, you are basically no material for frontline fighter.
Female fitness results in US were so abysmal that they lowered threshold for passing into active service.
https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...omens-high-fail-rates-on-gender-neutral-test/

So, yeah - humans are dimorphic like all other mammals, with females being smaller and weaker than males.
But for some reason we are having this conversation again and again, with rare exceptions that somehow should suddenly change the fact.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I can’t even look at the USA military anymore. The clown world rainbow fag and gender equality shit and worse is just…

 

[MerchantKing]

If a male charater can have STR in the range of 8-18, then a female character should have STR within the range of 4-14.
Female characters should be oriented more towards magical classes and should not be as proficient in the martial classes.
Because women have smaller brains than men, they should also have 2 points less possible for max INT.

Anything less is woke trash.

 

[Iucounu]

Usual army test for overall fitness is carrying 20-30% of your body weight on different long distances - usually 20-50km.

I don't doubt fit males are stronger than equally fit women, but I wonder if those female recruits are quite as fit as they could be? For comparison, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-carrying claims that some African women can carry up to 70% of their body weight on their head (but it doesn't say how far), and "Up to 20% of the person's body weight can be carried with no extra exertion of energy."

So, yeah - humans are dimorphic like all other mammals, with females being smaller and weaker than males.
But for some reason we are having this conversation again and again, with rare exceptions that somehow should suddenly change the fact.

Surely nobody has disputed that in this thread? My impression is that the discussion is more about how to handle (or wether to ignore) the gender differences in game design.

 

[ropetight]

Usual army test for overall fitness is carrying 20-30% of your body weight on different long distances - usually 20-50km.

I don't doubt fit males are stronger than equally fit women, but I wonder if those female recruits are quite as fit as they could be? For comparison, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-carrying claims that some African women can carry up to 70% of their body weight on their head (but it doesn't say how far), and "Up to 20% of the person's body weight can be carried with no extra exertion of energy."

So, yeah - humans are dimorphic like all other mammals, with females being smaller and weaker than males.
But for some reason we are having this conversation again and again, with rare exceptions that somehow should suddenly change the fact.

Surely nobody has disputed that in this thread? My impression is that the discussion is more about how to handle (or wether to ignore) the gender differences in game design.

You'd be surprised what mental gymnastics have been tried.

Talking about how to handle "gender" (separate from sex) differences in game design in regards of stats and attributes is unnecessary.
Choping dick off doesn't make one a woman, and wearing baggy pants with toolbelts doesn't make one a man.
If you are taking that stuff into account when designing game system, you just might go with traditional WoTC "females of *** are equal in everything to their male counterparts" bullshit.
Or you might even give different characteristics to every alphabet flag.

 

[Iucounu]

Talking about how to handle "gender" (separate from sex) differences in game design in regards of stats and attributes is unnecessary.
Choping dick off doesn't make one a woman, and wearing baggy pants with toolbelts doesn't make one a man.

Sorry, I meant sex of course.

 

[NecroLord]

But why is that any more absurd than the super-human abilities of many male characters?

This is actually the only reason I can stomach female warriors and the like in fantasy settings. Historical settings though? F that. That's why I can't bring myself to play the Expeditions series; too silly.

Royo/Boris Vallejo female warriors.