Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[ZagorTeNej]

And yet you dismissed felipepepe's critisisms that were p. much this, that the game lacks a unified vision,direction, and it doesn't feel like it was anyone's dream game but a checklist of "old school aarrpeegees had this and this and this"

He's mocking him (Felipepe).

 

[Rake]

And yet you dismissed felipepepe's critisisms that were p. much this, that the game lacks a unified vision,direction, and it doesn't feel like it was anyone's dream game but a checklist of "old school aarrpeegees had this and this and this"

He's mocking him (Felipepe).

 

[Sensuki]

I think the attribute design goals are pretty reasonable to be honest, although difficulty in achieving it has been created by removing certain elements from the system. The Interrupt and Concentration system (while technically not new ideas in themselves) had to be invented simply to create more combat stats for attributes after the removal of defenses from the mix.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

"Learn vicariously", right. We'll see.

Already technically done that with not going straight for early access and having the beta as a seperate SKU on steam and the date at which they published their gameplay video (closer to release).

Apparently localization is already in (for the beta), it's just not 100% finished.

I don;t know that EA is a mistake unless your game fails the value proposition test. At $60 for EA 'beta' of alpha quality, that was WL2 big mistake there. The D:OS EA was just fine IMO.

 

[Bubbles]

If Underrail and AoD weren't on Early Access I think both dev teams would be in a rather troubled spot right now.

 

[tuluse]

I don;t know that EA is a mistake unless your game fails the value proposition test. At $60 for EA 'beta' of alpha quality, that was WL2 big mistake there. The D:OS EA was just fine IMO.

This doesn't make sense. At some point the alpha quality product becomes beta quality. If InXile had waited 3 months to do early access, it would have been a better value?

 

[AN4RCHID]

Resolve determining status effect duration is a good idea. Perception should determine both concentration and interrupt. "Interrupts" should happen even when the attacked character isn't performing an action.

INT should also lose the Will bonus, and DEX should lose the Reflex bonus to make PER and RES more valuable. While I'm at it, DEX should determine damage for light weapons and firearms, INT should get magical damage as god intended.

 

[Athelas]

I don't think Obsidian was ever interested in having a protracted Early Access cycle. They knew precisely what they wanted to make (an Infinity Engine clone) and are only looking for some final feedback to tweak combat. Further tarnishing their reputation with a buggy, crashy Early Access version probably was a concern, as well.

 

[Abu Antar]

I think Tim Cain should go in to Josh, smack him on the back of his head and tell him to get his shit together. Unfortunately, Tim Cain seems to be a nice fellow that wouldn't hurt a fly.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I don;t know that EA is a mistake unless your game fails the value proposition test. At $60 for EA 'beta' of alpha quality, that was WL2 big mistake there. The D:OS EA was just fine IMO.

This doesn't make sense. At some point the alpha quality product becomes beta quality. If InXile had waited 3 months to do early access, it would have been a better value?

Unquestionably better to have beta quality beta than an alpha quality beta - you could argue that so much was in flux during the WL2 EA beta that it was of pre-alpha quality while touted as beta. I don't think anyone would characterize the beta launch as anything other than alpha at best, including inExile. Was it worth $60? That is subjective I guess but I know my answer.

 

[tuluse]

Unquestionably better to have beta quality beta than an alpha quality beta - you could argue that so much was in flux during the WL2 EA beta that it was of pre-alpha quality while touted as beta. I don't think anyone would characterize the beta launch as anything other than alpha at best, including inExile. Was it worth $60? That is subjective.

You're missing the point. If a beta is worth $60, and an alpha becomes a beta, then buying the alpha becomes worth it when it becomes a beta, no?

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Unquestionably better to have beta quality beta than an alpha quality beta - you could argue that so much was in flux during the WL2 EA beta that it was of pre-alpha quality while touted as beta. I don't think anyone would characterize the beta launch as anything other than alpha at best, including inExile. Was it worth $60? That is subjective.

You're missing the point. If a beta is worth $60, and an alpha becomes a beta, then buying the alpha becomes worth it when it becomes a beta, no?

My thoughts were in response to the assertion that Obsidian had learned from the mistakes of others re: EA beta fuckups. Value proposition speaks more to damage from mishandling setting and delivery against expectations.

My assertion was that D:OS EA beta was fine.

 

[Sensuki]

There is a huge gulf between "perfectly balanced" (never, ever stated as a design goal) and "no bad builds". Yes, you always have to play to the strengths of your build. It's your job to play the game. It's our job to put good and worthwhile options in front of you so more than half the characters you make are viable.

We currently have four stats that all feel important and strong for all classes according to our testers. Yes, it's hard to make all six valuable for all classes. There is no logical reason why we can't figure out solutions for the two outliers. We're not folding space.

Well, people will be playing it at Gamescom in a few days, so it will be interesting to see. I'm a *~ li'l ~* worried that the BB areas we're showing may be too hard for random convention-goers, but we'll see!

 

[Roguey]

.. and agreeable combat. That demo was like watching bucky balls slam into eachother.

I also predict it'll have better combat than both.

Yep, there's a reason Roguey hasn't addressed the issue. Suddenly PoE isn't looking so different from the other Kickstarter RPGs with their end-of-development system changes.

Balancing is literally never finished.

It's not a sky-is-falling issue if a couple of stats end up being okay-but-not-as-useful-as-the-others.

 

[Sensuki]

My assertion was that D:OS EA beta was fine.

It was, but they didn't do a seperate SKU so you were locked into steam if you used it.

 

[Roguey]

They gave you the option of canceling your key, though that wasn't ideal.

Plus they have all those EA reviews mixed in with the final product and that is bad.

 

[Sensuki]

Yeah but you couldn't cancel your key until well after release, due to the gog release coming out really late. I didn't even bother in the end.

 

[deuxhero]

Is there an option for any ethnically asian humans? I know one of the shark people subtypes have clothes styled after some asian cultures.

 

[Sensuki]

nah unfortunately, only the 3 majority US subraces : caucasian, negro and hispanic

 

[Onholyservicebound]

I always assumed it would be Asian, Caucasian, and negro, because hispanic isn't a fucking race. Hm, well, which is which anyway?

 

[Sensuki]

Sorry I meant Mestizo.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

.. and agreeable combat. That demo was like watching bucky balls slam into eachother.

I also predict it'll have better combat than both.

I would welcome that actually but we'll see.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

So PoE is gonna have dump stats, eh? Who would have known.

Balancing is literally never finished.

Sure it is, we're not talking about competitive multiplayer oriented games here (Starcraft, Diablo 2, WOW, MOBAs etc.) that get "balance" patches even years after their release.

Regardless, overhauling systems so close to release is a definite sign of incompetence

 

[Athelas]

Are Interrupts not that useful, or is that just how it's perceived? From Sawyer's account, it sounds like the testers are approaching it from a perspective of 'gotta interrupt that mage who just started casting' like in the IE games, which is odd with a system where everything can be interrupted. Seems to me the key benefit would be that over time, with high Perception you'd prevent the enemy from making a few attacks and with high Resolve you'd get in a few more attacks. Of course, it heavily depends on encounter design and how significant the boosts are that the other stats provide by comparison.

 

[Roguey]

So PoE is gonna have dump stats, eh? Who would have known.

They're not outright-dumps though.

Sure it is, we're not talking about competitive multiplayer oriented games here (Starcraft, Diablo 2, WOW, MOBAs etc.) that get "balance" patches even years after their release.

I can guarantee you every single-player RPG ever has been balanced up till the gold master and sometimes beyond.

Regardless, overhauling systems so close to release is a definite sign of incompetence

This isn't that significant an overhaul. As Josh said on SA, he's not folding space here.