Now that the dust has settled, how do we make RPGs fun again?

[Berengar]

Make a blobber where the character is actually a blob of 6-8 characters and people react to them as such.

 

[santino27]

Turn-based combat, party-based adventuring.
Good combat, exploration, and character build options.
Accept that the playerbase is still largely straight and male and actually try to entertain/fulfill that audience.
Move away from narrative-heavy games because the industry doesn't have the writing talent to pull them off anymore.
Otherwise, actually demonstrate some level of ambition and vision, and accept that flawed masterpieces are intrinsically more interesting than lowest-common-denominator banal mediocrity.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Explore genres outside of medieval fantasy. It’s oversaturated. There’s countless genres that you could set a crpg in. Just look at the plethora of ttrpg settings outside of medieval fantasy.

In defense of medieval fantasy, I think it would be interesting if Medieval Fantasy was, well, Medieval.

Now, the Medieval Age was a long period of time, spanning a lot of lands. Depending on who you ask, it goes from the Fall of Rome to the Fall of Constantinople (so, Fall of Rome to Fall of Rome). Some people separate the Medieval Age proper from the immediate post-Roman era, which some call Dark Ages. Other people eschew the moniker Dark Ages altogether and prefer to use the term Late Antiquity.

In practice, most "medieval fantasy" is actually an anachronism stew. Suddenly you start seeing Dark Ages/Late Antiquity elements alongside Late Medieval stuff. Which, for people who aren't medieval nerds, would be like seeing Repeater-toting Imperial Russians fighting in the Cold War. Now, "What if Vikings fought Genghis Khan" is a cool idea, but people using 8th century swords in a Renaissance setting is fucking stupid.

Another issue: Medievalesque society... and like, where are all the dynamics of the Middle Ages? In much of Europe, the Medieval Age was defined by personnal bonds, the bonds of Vassal and Lord, and other similar bonds. It was also often defined by the division of the society between Peasantry, Clergy and Nobility, and all the struggles from that. And you pretty much never are part of it.

And since we are here... why 90% of medieval fantasy rips off the ENGLISH or French medieval ages? Because of Tolkien? Medieval Poland, Iberia, Italy, Russia, Hungary, etc, are what, chopped liver?
And then there's the Eastern Roman Empire. Until recently, the english-speaking world has had this insane anti-ERE bias because Gibbons said the ERE wasn't really rome, even through it's the sucessor of the Roman Empire in all aspects.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

In defense of medieval fantasy, I think it would be interesting if Medieval Fantasy was, well, Medieval.

Right. Maybe it’s more accurate to call it D&D clones. I sympathize, but I’ve seen so much anti-historical slop that I don’t trust devs to ever do it right. Even the Witcher games just use a handful of Slavic folklore-inspired creatures injected into what is otherwise a generic D&D campaign.

Branching out into other genres forces devs to be more creative than usual because those genres don’t have a Tolkien or D&D equivalent they can copy to avoid original thought. (This is probably why those genres are so underrepresented, but I digress.)

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I think people are focusing too much on failed AAA releases and too little on little on actually fun titles that are being released every now and then.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Branching out into other genres forces devs to be more creative than usual because those genres don’t have a Tolkien or D&D equivalent they can copy to avoid original thought. (This is probably why those genres are so underrepresented, but I digress.)

Do they?
- Post-Apoc has Mad Max and later Fallout.
- Sci-Fi has Star Trek
- The Victorian Age has general Steampunk stuff

I sympathize, but I’ve seen so much anti-historical slop that I don’t trust devs to ever do it right

I think one of the biggest sins is that people have this amorphous view of the Middle Ages. 6th century is different from 9th century is different from 12th century is different from 15th century.
Hell, the very name "Middle Ages" is a sign of it - it was coined by Illuminist thinkers, who saw that period as "that boring and unenlightened epoch between Us and Le Based Ancient World of Greece and Rome", its why it was "Middle".

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Do they?

You tell me. You haven’t given any practical examples of non-fantasy crpgs suffering from this supposed plague of unoriginality.

 

[RoksCQ]

and stop being lazy niggers and handcraft your equipment, or at least more of your special equipment. Enough with the diabloesque / WoW / whatever itemization Ilevel style equipment lazy uninspired shit.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Easy:

1 - Text-parser dialogue systems.
2 - Attributes, skills and spells affecting the world outside combat.
3 - Quests with multiple solutions each.
4 - Better save systems than the crap we usually get, to discourage savescumming.
5 - Genociding combatfags, storyfags, weebs, Biowhores and women.

 

[Silverfish]

What do you want, specifically?

Alpha Protocol's reactivity, Dishonored's world design, Shadow Hearts: Covenant's combat, Mass Effect's music, Bound by Flame's runtime and Fallout's character building. Doesn't seem like too much to ask for.

 

[Bastardchops]

1. tough fights
2. cool rewards
3. big boobs

Forget the first two.

 

[Bastardchops]

Start with putting every single female/faggot/troon/jeet gamedev here.

A workcamp? They'll get even more work done, and overseen with German efficiency, they'll be relentless once they're inevitably released.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

CRPGs should reset, forgot what happened in the last 20 years or more, and restart from scratch. Instead of looking at and copying the trends in the videogame industry, they should start to use again TTRPGs as a main source of inspiration, like we were again in the '80s, when the first cRPGs were made. Obviously I am not speaking about using current year WotC D&D TTRPGs, but, for example, alterative indie OSR TTRPGs, or others.

Ok.... letsa gooooooo!!


The Dungeon

Maybe old games should be remodded/reconstructed with these features the OP wants. Tinker the fuck out of the old games. Why the fuck not unless you're bored of em?

 

[Jaesun]

Instead of looking at and copying the trends in the videogame industry, they should start to use again TTRPGs as a main source of inspiration, like we were again in the '80s, when the first cRPGs were made.

This. It's what has been missing.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I must've missed the part when they stopped being fun. Look past the AAA garbage.

That would be the period from around 2004-2011, when only a handful of worthwhile CRPGs released, regardless of whether AAA, indie, or anything in between. Fortunately, the industry improved in the era of hemi-semi-demi-Renaissance from 2012-2018. Although things deteriorated again in the current era beginning in 2019, it still isn't as bad as during that earlier 'CRPG wasteland' period.

 

[Ol' Willy]

RPGs are alright. That action goyslop you cite are not RPGs.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

CRPGs should reset, forgot what happened in the last 20 years or more, and restart from scratch. Instead of looking at and copying the trends in the videogame industry, they should start to use again TTRPGs as a main source of inspiration, like we were again in the '80s, when the first cRPGs were made. Obviously I am not speaking about using current year WotC D&D TTRPGs, but, for example, alterative indie OSR TTRPGs, or others.

Ok.... letsa gooooooo!!


The Dungeon

Maybe old games should be remodded/reconstructed with these features the OP wants. Tinker the fuck out of the old games. Why the fuck not unless you're bored of em?

You can be inspired by TTRPGs to make new cRPGs using also present day tecnology. When I said "like we were in the '80s", I was speaking about the creative mindset of those years.
Although, I admit, some of the modern tech is detrimental to real creative endeavors.

 

[Melanci]

I feel like it's hard to generalize what ruins a rpg in general, but there's a few common things that could be avoided/changed
-Get rid of quest markers everywhere and just focus on better map/level design, markers are just a band aid solution to mediocre maps and bad quest design most of the time
-Most millennial writing is bad, sticking to simple plots isn't a bad thing. Most adventures don't need to be extremely complex or subversive, it's fine to just go an a grand adventure for gold/fame
-Exploration should be satisfying to a level that it feels like its own reward to go out of your way to check every nook and cranny, not just with items or gold but with finding interesting or unique encounters
-Good and useful magic systems that feel powerful and helpful to use, even if it starts basic but as you get stronger you get more options and tools to move around and deal with problems
-Forcing players to actually stick to their decisions and not just "grandmaster of every guild" design. I know this kills the average normie player but stick to your choices or it just feels shallow
-Calling yourself an "in depth RPG" when you just end up being an action adventure game with some minor rpg elements

there's probably a lot more I could go on but personally I think these are the most common annoyances. I think it's fine to be a niche game and that seems to be more widely accepted nowadays in the indie scene but your game doesn't have to be neutered to appeal to everyone. Alternatively, just stop treating players like retards.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Since today I have some free time, I wasted it by analyzing my "collection" of games, by cross-matching the games with the Moby database to automaticaly count the ones that identify as "Role-playing (RPG)" and sort them by year. The collection is quite complete for games before 2000 (by using tosec, eXoDOS or similar curated collections). I started to be picky from the end of the '10s and forth, so the counts of recent RPGs are completely underestimated with respect the available RPGs. Also I filtered out all console games, so no JRPGs. I also removed duplicated (games released on more than one platform) by considering only the oldest release. This is what I obtained:

(the strange peak at 1980 is due to the insane number of Eamon modules released for the apple II in this year)

(edit: added RPGs developed for Windows-16 bit)

 

[Nano]

And since we are here... why 90% of medieval fantasy rips off the ENGLISH or French medieval ages? Because of Tolkien?

For the same reason you're typing this in English.

 

[gurugeorge]

There's been a an infinite number of pixels spent here discussing what has made RPGs decline over the past couple of decades
Avowed and Veilguard have clearly vindicated that labor... you were right

So fellas it looks like it's up to us

How can they be fixed?
What do you want, specifically?
Which things did you like about old games that never had a chance to evolve, progress, or come back?
What makes a compelling RPG story
What conditions need to happen to make good RPGs?

One easy thing that could be done is to ensure that everything is kept "in character," time and place appropriate, logical, etc. (I say that as someone who enjoyed Dungeons of Nahaelbuek, but that's specifically earmarked as a spoof.)

What I don't want to see, what I never, ever want to see, is references to contemporary stuff (not just politics and political theory, but slang, etc.) in what is supposed to be a serious take on an alternate universe or a fantasy universe.

Just that discipline alone would probably untangle a lot of the nonsense.

For example, taking the recent Failguard thing as an example, it was bad enough having the degeneracy per se advertized. That's one thing. But even for someone who likes the degeneracy, its imposition, with contemporary language, on a fantasy setting, out to enrage them. (And if I'm not mistaken there have been some comments to that effect - i.e. "I'm pro alphabet shit, but this is jarring and out of place.")

IOW this annoys everybody, so nixing it would have good bang for buck impact.

Take your fantasy seriously, it's an alternative world, an alternative universe, it's not this boring old universe, it's somewhere else, somewhen else, that's why it interests us; lose that, and it will cease to interest us.

 

[rumSaint]

IMO there is no way to fix current RPG unless it crashes and burns to the ground. The shift in RPG narration changed so much, from we play to become better, to become demigods, to overcome obstacles, to the situation where players and creators just put retards in the game design because of their political views.

I find it really funny that fantasy settings have a fucking cripple with battle wheelchair. You have magic to bring people from the dead, why can't you fix broken spine. You can make prosthetics, you could fucking animate skeleton to carry person or golem. In SF it's even easier, like Cyberpunk or Deus Ex. Holy shit.

Ok enough ranting. My point is. People who are in charge of writing stories are people who spend their time on twatter, or leddit, often mentally ill, often have no fucking clue how normal human interaction works. How would they know how to write believable dialogue. They are also devoid of any knowledge of any classical art in terms of books/paintings/scripts etc. But hey they watched all of (insert some cartoon series) and they identify as one of the characters, or are some inspired by them. This causes stories to be written as poor mans fanfics with cringe dialogue and identity politics, because they do not know any other life, or how people interact. To add insult to the injury they often lack knack or are not autist enough to make interesting systems.

One last thing is target audience. Let's be real. All of you boomers are not the target, nor are functioning adults. The target are Gen Z and younger teenagers who have attention span of goldfish. Reading sheet of written text scare them. They would rather play some gacha to click for dopamine hit and then goon to characters.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Instead of looking at and copying the trends in the videogame industry, they should start to use again TTRPGs as a main source of inspiration, like we were again in the '80s, when the first cRPGs were made.

This. It's what has been missing.

The problem is that modern ttrpgs suck. It’s shallow, uninspired and derivative. Most of the ttrpgs I can name that I think are worth adapting are 20+ years old and out of print.

 

[Haba]

Make smaller, simpler games that are actually fun to play. Cut out everything that distracts from that.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Make smaller, simpler games that are actually fun to play. Cut out everything that distracts from that.

That would be a lot easier if there was some widely available toolset specifically calibrated for rpgs, like the Neverwinter Nights toolset. Unfortunately, nobody makes toolsets like that anymore.