Myth: The Fallen Lords on a modern PC

[Lyre Mors]

Don't know if anyone saw this in the other thread about the Myth series, but this is the only game I've seen that specifically mentions Myth as an inspiration.

Might be the closest we ever get to a "modern" Myth in a very long time.

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

Don't know if anyone saw this in the other thread about the Myth series, but this is the only game I've seen that specifically mentions Myth as an inspiration.

Might be the closest we ever get to a "modern" Myth in a very long time.

Yeah, gameplaywise it seems to be quite similar indeed. But the graphics are horrible and beyond ugly. Clunky models, unnatural movements, ridiculous looking gore effects and explosions - simply nothing of the gritty, dirty, realistic feeling of M1 and 2. Looks more like the abominable Myth 3 to me, soulless and empty of character.

EDIT: maybe I'm a bit too harsh. I just got it as it's on sale. I really don't like the graphical design but will give it a chance.

 

[Lagi]

I played Nordic Warriors before, but i am giving it another go this weekend. It was quite fun, actually. I liked more healing.

 

[BlackGoat]

Yeah, that game is an example of a bad Myth successor. Obviously I don't want Bungie to make a modern Myth that tries to appeal to the masses. But let's enter the world of imagination or something. What is your HEART DREAM version of a new MYTH game. BIGGER EXPLOSIONS and GORE PHYSICS is where my head is at. Bleak autumnal/wintery atmosphere. Flooded fields, crows and shit. Pretend that it IS possible that someone can make something that isn't a giant piece of shit.

Like if a new Myth wasn't something that was watered-down accessible mainstream Myth but something that actually doubled down on the things you dig

 

[Ismaul]

Myth is nothing but a

 

[Curratum]

Yeah, that game is an example of a bad Myth successor. Obviously I don't want Bungie to make a modern Myth that tries to appeal to the masses. But let's enter the world of imagination or something. What is your HEART DREAM version of a new MYTH game. BIGGER EXPLOSIONS and GORE PHYSICS is where my head is at. Bleak autumnal/wintery atmosphere. Flooded fields, crows and shit. Pretend that it IS possible that someone can make something that isn't a giant piece of shit.

Like if a new Myth wasn't something that was watered-down accessible mainstream Myth but something that actually doubled down on the things you dig

So, what then is a good Myth successor?

 

[Lagi]

Yes, what exactly do you want? Bigger explosions would be detrimental to the experience. Gore physics's? So like you could remove one limb from a warrior or more death animations?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Bigger explosions would be detrimental

 

[Lagi]

Bigger explosions would be detrimental

this is the biggest explosion, and it still looks small. How would you imagine utilizing melee warriors in a second world war size of explosions?

Spoiler

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Bigger explosions would be detrimental

this is the biggest explosion, and it still looks small. How would you imagine utilizing melee warriors in a second world war size of explosions?

Spoiler

I just like explosions.

 

[BlackGoat]

Yeah, that game is an example of a bad Myth successor. Obviously I don't want Bungie to make a modern Myth that tries to appeal to the masses. But let's enter the world of imagination or something. What is your HEART DREAM version of a new MYTH game. BIGGER EXPLOSIONS and GORE PHYSICS is where my head is at. Bleak autumnal/wintery atmosphere. Flooded fields, crows and shit. Pretend that it IS possible that someone can make something that isn't a giant piece of shit.

Like if a new Myth wasn't something that was watered-down accessible mainstream Myth but something that actually doubled down on the things you dig

So, what then is a good Myth successor?

There definitely isn't anything that comes close and I don't know what a proper one would necessarily look like. I'm just curious what people think of as the essential qualities of the game and what could be expanded or changed if Myth was furthered as an idea. Or if there's some weird design tangent that isn't necessarily part of the original games that could be pursued. Like would it even have the same sort of mission structure or could it be something more open.

When I think of a Myth game, I think of soldiers slowing trudging across a miserable landscape, up against impossible odds, slowly getting picked off and hacked apart by monsters. Larger maps. Actually getting to an objective or a battle site while avoiding too many losses would be a huge part, choosing a riskier direct route through treacherous terrain or a longer roundabout path. More sim-y elements, expanded wildlife, wolves that track you and move in fast to pounce when you're distracted. Better physics and weather effects could be really cool. Rain that actually floods a previously unflooded field. Heavy snow that builds up and slows your troops down. Knowing where monsters have been by seeing tracks in mud or snow or through the long grass. I don't know if any of you guys have played something like Mudrunner, but that idea of really earning every little bit of progress across a detailed landscape is interesting to me, tho whether or not that's what MYTH should be, I dunno

 

[Humbaba]

Yes, what exactly do you want? Bigger explosions would be detrimental to the experience. Gore physics's? So like you could remove one limb from a warrior or more death animations?

That would be a start. A modern myth should have highly granular gore physics. In Myth, if a guy gets blown up he just turns into gibs which are then blown around the place. A modern Myth should make it so that if for example a bomb goes off near someone's feet, it should blow his entire lower half off but leave the rest intact. It should also have more detailed gibs, meaning different kinds for tissue, bone, brain etc. If someone gets annihilated by a fireball, his gibs should catch on fire. Also bigger explosions are great, especially with sound design of Myth's calibre. Also make shrapnel and debris a thing and more relevant respectively. When a Ghol throws a spare knife at a dwarf, that should hurt, instead of induce immense pity for the Ghol.

Animations could always be improved, though I would be careful with that. Modern devs have a bad habit of going hollywood on combat animations. I don't wanna see melee units doing spins and shit. As far as units go, I feel like Myth 2 already covered the spread of most if not all sensible unit archetypes so as to counter and be countered by certain other units. Maybe tweak them a bit as to make melee units a bit more useful. As it stands, melee is a last resort and dwarf chads can reliably deal with anything that's not a Fetch. Not saying that Myth 2's units are unbalanced, which they're not, I think they're close to perfect actually. I'd just find it interesting to experiment with new counters and dynamics and such.

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

After playing the first bunch of missions I’m not excited about Nordic Warriors. Yes, the game gets Myth’s gameplay right and it’s indeed the only game I know in the vein of Myth. But on the other hand it seems like a copy of Myth in many ways – and unfortunately not a very good one. The design of the units is the most disappointing part for me: There are different units, but all of them feel so bland and uninspired, many simply copy Myth units (“Alchemists” instead of “Dwarves” etc.) but they just feel very uninteresting. I still remember the day when I played Myth 1 back in 1997 or 1998 and got my first group of berzerkers. They really felt different and unique. In Nordic Warriors I have warriors and guards which are both basically melee fighters and I don’t see any difference between them. The enemy design is even worse in my opinion: Zombies look exactly like the boring cannon fodder they are, skeletons are just a bit stronger but otherwise equally uninspired, the pseudo-fetchs look and feel totally deplaced… and Nordic Warrior’s replacement for Myth’s wights are just boring fat guys that don’t look menacing at all (I still remember the moment I saw the first wight in The Siege of Madrigal: These miserable monstrosities evoked both dread and pity). Overall these enemies are not impressive at all, there is just not the slightest bit of that very specific gritty, dark atmosphere of fear and menace that was typical for Myth. I get the impression they just throw these units at me. I also can't click on them to read bits of lore (like in Myth), they are simply there and have to be destroyed.
Storytelling is the other sorely disappointing aspect: The story of Myth wasn’t exactly original, but the way it was told was fantastic. The viewpoint of a simple soldier in the Legion, experiencing the horrors of war was a brilliant design decision. This way I as the player felt the menacing enemy the Legion was fighting against - names like The Watcher, Soulblighter, Balor got meaning. Nordic Warrior’s narrator voice isn’t bad, but he feels unconnected to the things that happen in the game. That way there is no feeling of obligation or commitment. The whole humans-against-undead story just isn’t interesting the way it’s told and there is, again, not the slightest feeling of desperation or dread.
I’m not saying it’s a bad game – judged by itself it has its merits. But if you compare it to Myth 1 and 2 (and they way the developers almost copy Myth here you just have to compare it directly) it’s not impressive at all.

 

[Lagi]

Mudrunner with all that logs cargo looks great - not sure how to translate this vibe into myth game.

Spoiler

yes please. mud, rain, snow affecting movement.
maybe carrying torches to scare some monster at night. Or avoiding camp fire during stealth missions.

----------

more detailed gore in form of lesser wounds, yes please. Like arrows are spear stick to your warriors, or warrior without legs agonizing on the ground (for gameplay reason he is considered dead).

Heron Guards with akimbo katanas never feels right to me.

Could add spearmen, that would be useful against big monsters - keeping them at distance, but worst against sword/axe shorter range melee opponents that would bypass their polearms, and would not be affected.

I think Melee units would be used more often, if there were "soft kills" that you could recover with Heal. So you would be like "ok 5 dudes collapse from that brawl, but thats ok because i still have 7 healing roots, so no need for load game yet"

 

[Lagi]

After playing the first bunch of missions I’m not excited about Nordic Warriors. Yes, the game gets Myth’s gameplay right and it’s indeed the only game I know in the vein of Myth. But on the other hand it seems like a copy of Myth in many ways – and unfortunately not a very good one. The design of the units is the most disappointing part for me: There are different units, but all of them feel so bland and uninspired, many simply copy Myth units (“Alchemists” instead of “Dwarves” etc.) but they just feel very uninteresting. I still remember the day when I played Myth 1 back in 1997 or 1998 and got my first group of berzerkers. They really felt different and unique. In Nordic Warriors I have warriors and guards which are both basically melee fighters and I don’t see any difference between them. The enemy design is even worse in my opinion: Zombies look exactly like the boring cannon fodder they are, skeletons are just a bit stronger but otherwise equally uninspired, the pseudo-fetchs look and feel totally deplaced… and Nordic Warrior’s replacement for Myth’s wights are just boring fat guys that don’t look menacing at all (I still remember the moment I saw the first wight in The Siege of Madrigal: These miserable monstrosities evoked both dread and pity). Overall these enemies are not impressive at all, there is just not the slightest bit of that very specific gritty, dark atmosphere of fear and menace that was typical for Myth. I get the impression they just throw these units at me. I also can't click on them to read bits of lore (like in Myth), they are simply there and have to be destroyed.
Storytelling is the other sorely disappointing aspect: The story of Myth wasn’t exactly original, but the way it was told was fantastic. The viewpoint of a simple soldier in the Legion, experiencing the horrors of war was a brilliant design decision. This way I as the player felt the menacing enemy the Legion was fighting against - names like The Watcher, Soulblighter, Balor got meaning. Nordic Warrior’s narrator voice isn’t bad, but he feels unconnected to the things that happen in the game. That way there is no feeling of obligation or commitment. The whole humans-against-undead story just isn’t interesting the way it’s told and there is, again, not the slightest feeling of desperation or dread.
I’m not saying it’s a bad game – judged by itself it has its merits. But if you compare it to Myth 1 and 2 (and they way the developers almost copy Myth here you just have to compare it directly) it’s not impressive at all.

very well written, the narratives are just not there. I think I will listen again to all Myth briefings - maybe i will improve my English :D. Units are copy-paste. And i don't feel any threat.
Just look at half naked Freja and you get the picture of the plot quality.

Spoiler

How this teenage girl learn fireball magic? know how to heal and get along with werewolfs? power of virginity or smth? Yeah i skip all the briefings . Plus "we have a shortage of men, all women need to become archers"

Nordic Warriors have much better controls of units, units AI is good, changing game speed feels natural (with music change. Maybe a little too convenient) and camera controls are intuitive (zoom range is adjusted very good). Default key binds are handy as well (close to left side). Units are not so bad balanced - all have its use. Gameplay is quite good.

friendly fire is too cheap. Your archer hitting own warriors, only if they're shooting into engaged troops

Spoiler

 

[Humbaba]

Could add spearmen, that would be useful against big monsters - keeping them at distance, but worst against sword/axe shorter range melee opponents that would bypass their polearms, and would not be affected.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? A big Trow sort of monster would negate the supposed reach advantage of a pole arm simply by virtue of his long legs, unless it's like REALLY long. It's against regular human sized opponents with shorter weapons where spears or pikes should win out, realistically speaking.

 

[Lagi]

I was playing little more of Frozen Nords this weekend. And i come to following core unit class scheme (they are also mass of Thrall good for dying only, and some Trows that are like tier above Armored class)

Archers are always defeated by Fast Warriors with shield
Grenade throwers are always defeated by Archers
Grenades always defeath Slow Armored Knights with 2h weapons
Armored always kill Fast Shield warriors

what i mean "always": if you select one unit type, click attack opponent and forget about them, 90% outcome is as per above graph.

yes if Fast Shielded warriors cannot reach elevated Archers they will be shot after some time.
yes if you throw mixture at archers, jumping from behind a tree when they are near. You will negate their range advantage and blow them all up.
yes if you micro your armored guys just perfect, you might catch the grenade throwers.
yes if the armored slasher are at the last bit of HP bar, then Shield Warrior can prevail during hit exchange.

orange arrows are "not sure":
archers vs armored - if you have space for benny hill then archers will win, if not then cornered archer die after one hack
shield vs grenades - grendes bounce of shields. but one good cocktail can blow them all just as easily. On the other hands Shield are faster than Armored guys.

but it already works that way

Yes, but i would make shield warriors fast, and give berserkers armors, which slow them down

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

Saw another frigging Halo discussion, which prompted me to think another time about Myth, back when Bungie were known for more than Halo. I've never actually played any of the sequels (the third one apparently made by somebody else anyway).

But man, "The Fallen Lords". It was one of the first, if not the first game I had bought for my then brand-new 3dfx card. And the gameplay was fun and unique too. But what elevated it another tier above was how hopeless the entire campaign was being represented. Every new mission was another Very Last Stand before the Great Fall. The narrator in between "triumphs" that ultimately weren't conveyed that nicely, reading aloud his diary, which was more a diary of endless lament and gloom. It's remarkable to think about the dread the game envoked, considering that thew few animated cutscenes are actually cartoons. And then that soundtrack...

Myth: The Fallen Lords (The Siege of Madrigal) - YouTube

I had the game installed again a couple years ago, it still played quite nicely (think I had to go with software rendering mode though). But it's a shame that nobody has ever really picked up from where Myth left of. But then, that makes it as much a one-of-its-kind experiences as say, Thief was.

Myth III: Dwarf Madness [HD] - YouTube


Will take a look at Frozen Nords now though, thanks for the heads up.

 

[A horse of course]

Saw another frigging Halo discussion, which prompted me to think another time about Myth, back when Bungie were known for more than Halo. I've never actually played any of the sequels (the third one apparently made by somebody else anyway).

But man, "The Fallen Lords". It was one of the first, if not the first game I had bought for my then brand-new 3dfx card. And the gameplay was fun and unique too. But what elevated it another tier above was how hopeless the entire campaign was being represented. Every new mission was another Very Last Stand before the Great Fall. The narrator in between "triumphs" that ultimately weren't conveyed that nicely, reading aloud his diary, which was more a diary of endless lament and gloom. It's remarkable to think about the dread the game envoked, considering that thew few animated cutscenes are actually cartoons. And then that soundtrack...

Myth: The Fallen Lords (The Siege of Madrigal) - YouTube

I had the game installed again a couple years ago, it still played quite nicely (think I had to go with software rendering mode though). But it's a shame that nobody has ever really picked up from where Myth left of. But then, that makes it as much a one-of-its-kind experiences as say, Thief was.

Myth III: Dwarf Madness [HD] - YouTube


Will take a look at Frozen Nords now though, thanks for the heads up.

meh

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

I'm fairly certain Myth is owned by Take2, not Microsoft. Microsoft only cared about Halo (i'm not sure who owns the Minotaur/PiD/Marathon rights). Take2 treated Myth like shit even before it was a dead franchise.

Not sure if already discussed, but it seems the trademark IP registration has expired last year.

What now?

MYTH, THE FALLEN LORDS Trademark - Registration Number 2189992 - Serial Number 75289341 :: Justia Trademarks

 

[A horse of course]

Sooooooo I'm starting my Myth II: Soulblighter playthrough in preparation for the video, and have been nosing through old articles and trailers and such. One thing I was curious about is what appears to be an early dark unit on the "Into the Breach" map in old teaser trailers, e.g.


I've actually seen this before in custom maps and tagsets, and had no idea it was originally made by Bungie. Anyone remember the story behind this? An old human melee enemy? A early Thrall variant? I could ask on the tain or something but I thought I'd see if anyone here remembers. Ludwig von Eisenthal ?

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

Sooooooo I'm starting my Myth II: Soulblighter playthrough in preparation for the video, and have been nosing through old articles and trailers and such. One thing I was curious about is what appears to be an early dark unit on the "Into the Breach" map in old teaser trailers, e.g.


I've actually seen this before in custom maps and tagsets, and had no idea it was originally made by Bungie. Anyone remember the story behind this? An old human melee enemy? A early Thrall variant? I could ask on the tain or something but I thought I'd see if anyone here remembers. Ludwig von Eisenthal ?

These filthy looking, black cloaked guys who shuffle along like hobos? Never seen them in my life. And I played tons of mods for Myth 1 and 2.

 

[A horse of course]

Sooooooo I'm starting my Myth II: Soulblighter playthrough in preparation for the video, and have been nosing through old articles and trailers and such. One thing I was curious about is what appears to be an early dark unit on the "Into the Breach" map in old teaser trailers, e.g.


I've actually seen this before in custom maps and tagsets, and had no idea it was originally made by Bungie. Anyone remember the story behind this? An old human melee enemy? A early Thrall variant? I could ask on the tain or something but I thought I'd see if anyone here remembers. Ludwig von Eisenthal ?

These filthy looking, black cloaked guys who shuffle along like hobos? Never seen them in my life. And I played tons of mods for Myth 1 and 2.

I noticed it in one of those Mazzarin-style horde mode maps, and the mapmaker credits Creation Games for the "Hooded Thrall". A quick google revealed http://myth.bungie.org/legends/relics/unimplemented/m2teaser/myth2teaser.html which also expresses confusion, noting that it may have been an early replacement for the thrall but was never seen in pre-release screenshots. They only say it was released as a third party model later and is usually listed as "lich".

edit: OK I looked up the specific Creation plugin it was taken from (Acts of Piety), and THAT plugin cites Vista Cartel for the sprite, saying "Called Thrall Elite on the multiplayer meshes and called Minions of the Taken on the solo mesh, these creatures are a new unit using Bungie's Hooded Thrall sprites. These sprites were used by Vista for their Litch unit, but the Thrall Elite are different creatures all-together."

edit 2: I found the original Vista addon using it, "Heart of Darkness", which states "There are some neat things in this release. A new unit, the Lichen, which you might remember from the screenshots of Myth II. It was supposed to be a thrall replacement, but was removed. Thanks to Highlander, who passed along the collection sprite sheet, which allowed us to recreate the unit."

No idea who Highlander is...

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Sooooooo I'm starting my Myth II: Soulblighter playthrough in preparation for the video, and have been nosing through old articles and trailers and such. One thing I was curious about is what appears to be an early dark unit on the "Into the Breach" map in old teaser trailers, e.g.


I've actually seen this before in custom maps and tagsets, and had no idea it was originally made by Bungie. Anyone remember the story behind this? An old human melee enemy? A early Thrall variant? I could ask on the tain or something but I thought I'd see if anyone here remembers. Ludwig von Eisenthal ?

These filthy looking, black cloaked guys who shuffle along like hobos? Never seen them in my life. And I played tons of mods for Myth 1 and 2.

Maybe earlier version of animated armors? Can't remember what those were called.

 

[A horse of course]

Sooooooo I'm starting my Myth II: Soulblighter playthrough in preparation for the video, and have been nosing through old articles and trailers and such. One thing I was curious about is what appears to be an early dark unit on the "Into the Breach" map in old teaser trailers, e.g.


I've actually seen this before in custom maps and tagsets, and had no idea it was originally made by Bungie. Anyone remember the story behind this? An old human melee enemy? A early Thrall variant? I could ask on the tain or something but I thought I'd see if anyone here remembers. Ludwig von Eisenthal ?

These filthy looking, black cloaked guys who shuffle along like hobos? Never seen them in my life. And I played tons of mods for Myth 1 and 2.

Maybe earlier version of animated armors? Can't remember what those were called.

Not related to Stygian Knights afaik. I fired off an email to the admin of The Tain to see if he knew anything about "Highlander" and a couple of other cool titbits I discovered...