My BIG LIST of things that SUCK about Guild Wars

[Human Shield]

Swapping skills being dumb has very little to do with realism. It has to do with fun, and buidling a character. I think it's dumb, for exmaple, to be able to chioose to have say riding as a skill yet not be able to use it because it's swapped out. Do the characters have temproary amnesia? I mean, R00fles! That's a major weakness of the game no matter how many fanboys come to defend it!

They use the word "skills" but they aren't like skills in other games.

You get 8 slots to put in spells, and fighters and rangers have their own special attacks that go in the spell slots. It is like use per day and choosing what to memorize in D&D.

You can always attack with any weapon you want but you can only hold 8 spells and special attacks.

And you try to pick skills that work together. The necro spell parasite bond is cheap 5 energy and recharges quickly but only a bit of damage and heals you, but if you cast the spell soul barbs first every hex spell after that does 20 damage so now you can do a more damage. Some necro spells put bad conditions on you like weakness and poison, there is also a spell that sends all conditions you have to an enemy, and then there is another spell that copies all conditions of an enemy to all nearby enemies, combine all 3 and you can infect a whole team.

 

[Volourn]

You mean the stupid card game? ABSOLUTELY. My friends would play that all the time when we took breaks from D&D and tried to get me into it. I tried it a few times then I said the following: "FUCK YOU, YOU BASTARDS!"

Geeks may play D&D; but only moronic geeks play M:TG.

 

[PennyAnte]

Swapping skills being dumb has very little to do with realism. It has to do with fun, and buidling a character. I think it's dumb, for exmaple, to be able to chioose to have say riding as a skill yet not be able to use it because it's swapped out. Do the characters have temproary amnesia?

The problem here is that you're thinking of it as a cRPG, when it's an aRPG with "build" development, not "character" development. The skills you get through play are optional ways to customize your strategy in particular areas and give you, the player, tactical flexibility, not give your character "deeper knowledge." It's like Diablo, not Baldur's Gate. You don't "identify" with the character as an actor in a "living, breathing world." You're criticizing the game for not having qualities it was never intended to, like knocking an RTS for not being an FPS.

As an aRPG it's a great game. The skill swapping and the ability to remove and then respend your skills and attribute points gives you unprecedented flexiblity. Unlike Diablo, you don't have to make a whole new character to pick a path down a different "skill tree." In that sense, the game respects the hours you play, because you "keep" the experience you gain when try a new build, if you see what I mean.

It's character vault also lets you share items between characters, which D2 didn't do. And once you get a skill, it's available to any PVP only character you create. So the game never makes you restart from scratch to try new ideas, and that's a fantastic approach.

As far as the game only having 8 special skills to use at any one time, that's no different from Diablo 2. How many builds require focused investments in more than 4-5 skills in that game? And at least this game doesn't require you to waste points "spending your way up" some lame skill tree. Every point you spend in Guild Wars helps your character. You don't lose 20-40 points per build getting to the skills that are effective in the late game.

Besides, I wouldn't want to have to manage 150 skills at a time with my mouse and keyboard, would you? Eight is plenty, maybe a dozen with expansions.

Guild Wars is just a fantastic aRPG. There's no way around it.

EDITED to fix a couple of typos.

 

[Volourn]

Huh? I'm not complaining about its (lack) of role-playing. I don't think I even mentioned any of that. I'm talking that I find it silly that you can learn upwards of 100+ skills; but you cna only use 8 ata time? That, to me, just sounds silly espicially in a game focused on combat like GW is .

btw, It's not like I think the game sound slike it sucks. It does have good qualities that people have mentioned. Hell, SP comapred it to NWN combat. That's a POSITIVE to me. :D

I just think if I take the time to learn x skill; I should *always* have access to said skill.

 

[PennyAnte]

Yeah, but you are still thinking of it like a D&D or Morrowind character, who permanently learns something.

It's at least true in a sense in Guild Wars that you do always have access to every skill you've learned, just not all of them at the same time. That would be unweildy anyway. Skills take time to activate in combat. By the time you activated 20 buffs, the first 10 would have expired and the battle would be over.

And it's worth mentioning again that you also always will have access to the skills for pvp, even if you delete the character that learned the skill. There's nothing not to like. It's great the way it is.

 

[Sol Invictus]

You can grow attached to your "Story-based" character because, as you may or may not know, he goes through several phases of the "Ascension" which make him rather more powerful than regular PVP characters. It's also a difficult (or rather challenging) process, so it's not something you can do in a day.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I haven't really noticed this. And I have walked through players in town areas, and even overlapped them for long periods of time (while getting coffee!), so I figure you're full of shit on this one.

You can walk through players in town, it's in the hostile areas where you can't walk through players. Hell, I had Gwen trap me on the corner of a hill again last night after walking to the edge of a hill to look around for Foible's Fair. Gwen never moves randomly like pets do, so once she traps you, you're fucked.

I've also had monsters pin me on a hill the same way, which is great because if there's too many thumpers - you're dead. Rangers aren't the most super meaty class and having a couple of charr pin you on a hill is pretty much doom.

Yes, this is designed to force you into thinking of a strategy. It reduces the more brainless sort of munchkinism and so on. It forces you to think about what you are going to equip, and how to complement the other players. This can be a good thing.

You're making it out to be way more complex than it is. For example, rangers have pets. You have two slots taken up just to support pets. You have the healing/rez skill for pets and you're required to have Charm Animal to have a pet as well. So, a Ranger with pets really only has six slots left. You want to carry around a Ressurrection signet or spell, so now you're down to five left. From there, your choices are basically damage/speed buffs and whatever your second class might have. Picking those isn't that hard, you just pick the ones your skills have augmented the most.

You also get skill-points for some quests. These can be 'spent' at skill-trainers to buy new skills.

You really should read that shiny manual thing that came with your game.
Page 9 - Attribute Points Allocation
Pages 10-20 - the attributes of each profession

What the game calls ATTRIBUTES are really skills, and what the game calls SKILLS are spells. Attributes are things like Strength, Charisma, Intelligences, etc. Marksmanship is NOT an attribute. It's a skill.

The world is abundant with items to raise your base Energy. Some items improve energy regen, and some skills do too. Some skills and attributes reduce Energy cost. For example, the Ranger's Expertise attribute. Some spells vampiracly drain energy.
Not being able to have uber amounts of Energy is due, once again, to balance.

How does this change the fact that you can't customize your character to have inate differences between the classes? We're not talking about items here, we're talking about how the character system itself needs core attributes that allow you to customize and hone your character better so that all rangers aren't alike.

[Edit: no I won't. Its about 50% length on my screen. And the icons are plenty big enuff. Are you playing on an itty-bitty screen?]

19" monitor, 1600x1200 desktop with Guild Wars in a window. Then again, I played Diablo 2 in a window when it was 640x480 and never had that problem.

Once again, your inability to "try shit out" is being displayed. Double-click on your kit, hovering (or right clicking) on the tab for the other container will open that container. Then click on the item you want to identify or salvage.
Geeeezzzzuusss.

Oh yeah, that's not clumsy!

Also, if the importance is in building a good group, how is soloing viable?

It's really not unless you're a total masochist. You don't lose anything by being in a party, other than some loot which is pretty weak anyway. You get the same experience for being in a party as you would if you weren't as far as I can tell.

I expect to buy this game at some point and I'm hopeful I'll enjoy it but so far I still think a lot of you are deluding yourselves into thinking that the biggest feature is something other than the lack of a monthly fee. I played one of the beta weekends and found it to be meh.

You're pretty much right. At the same time, it's biggest weakness is that it lacks the depth of MMORPGs in terms of noncombat things, character system, etc. Hell, in terms of character system, it lacks the depth of most other action CRPGs.

 

[Sol Invictus]

19" monitor, 1600x1200 desktop with Guild Wars in a window. Then again, I played Diablo 2 in a window when it was 640x480 and never had that problem.

Go to the options and change the size of the GUI. I have mine set to Large.

Oh yeah, that's not clumsy!

Press f9. Opens all bags.

It's really not unless you're a total masochist. You don't lose anything by being in a party, other than some loot which is pretty weak anyway. You get the same experience for being in a party as you would if you weren't as far as I can tell.

Soloing is for masochists, yeah. As for loot, it isn't always weak. I've managed to find a pretty rare staff (fire staff, 11-21 damage, +10 energy, some monk-related buffs), yellow name on it, sold it for 2.2k to some guy because I don't need it. That was a good drop.

You get more experience for soloing, but if you add henchmen to your party you divide your experience with them.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Btw, signet of resurrection is gay. Save the slot for a better skill.

 

[Shagnak]

You can walk through players in town, it's in the hostile areas where you can't walk through players.

Yep, I have noticed this "blocking" effect now. On the "Academy" mission (the one that gives you the Yak's Bend map point) I got blocked in by an archer dude. I managed to get out of it though by clicking on various areas until it all untangled "as if by magic". It was annoying, but not as often/pervasive as you seemed to be making out. It also was not a "HUGE ASS" clip box. He had to be virtually humping me to block me in.

Still, like the behavior of AI in "escort" missions, it really is something they should look at. And probably will - there have been at least a couple of small patches already fixing other stuff. Given the complaints about the actions of companion AI (despite in some respects apparently improving it from what it was in the betas) they are sure to take notice and work on improving it.

You're making it out to be way more complex than it is.

No I'm not . The system itself is very simple, but having the right combination, especially in trying to be in synergy with your team-mates, is complex.

For example, rangers have pets. You have two slots taken up just to support pets. You have the healing/rez skill for pets and you're required to have Charm Animal to have a pet as well. So, a Ranger with pets really only has six slots left.

Yep, agreed; as I mentioned above, it is the one thing ive also moaned about with this "8-only" system. A ranger without his pet is a little bit "de-manned". Maybe they should have allowed the pet 'always', and have you equip the charm animal skill just for when you want to on the hunt for a new pet.

However, I acknowledged the (perceived) flaw in this particular profession in my post, so Im not certain why you're introducing it again.

You want to carry around a Ressurrection signet or spell, so now you're down to five left. From there, your choices are basically damage/speed buffs and whatever your second class might have. Picking those isn't that hard, you just pick the ones your skills have augmented the most.

"Just pick the ones your skills [attributes] have augmented the most". Really? No wonder you were suck-ville! Hehe.
Of course, if something proves itself to be useful, then yes, are going to spend the points to improve the attribute that enhances it. But sometimes you come across situations where your strategy doesn't work so well anymore, so you have to use something from an area you have developed less. Or you will suck. And then I guess you will start developing that area...

ATTRIBUTES are really skills

and what the game calls SKILLS are spells

Hell, this is just a labelling issue. Yes it would be better to rename as you suggested. Perhaps not skills to "spells"...maybe MAGIK POWAHZ or something else more emcompassing.

Sheesh, for a minute there it looked like you just hadnt read your manual. And you mixing your terminology, even within the same tract, didn't help!
So what, you would rather rename "attributes" to "skills"; either way you put points into them to build them up, how does this mean you are not building a character, or that the characters are "the same"?

The world is abundant with items to raise your base Energy. Some items improve energy regen, and some skills do too. Some skills and attributes reduce Energy cost. For example, the Ranger's Expertise attribute. Some spells vampiracly drain energy.
Not being able to have uber amounts of Energy is due, once again, to balance.

How does this change the fact that you can't customize your character to have inate differences between the classes?

I'm assuming you actually mean within the classes here?

We're not talking about items here, we're talking about how the character system itself needs core attributes that allow you to customize and hone your character better so that all rangers aren't alike.

I'll take that as a "yes." Or a "both".
The Ranger's Expertise attribute being different between rangers means that those rangers have different Energy costs. Having different attribute values means that those Rangers will be....err....different at everything. Self explanatory really.

Im not certain if other classes can affect their Energy levels with attributes like the Ranger can. I don't know why this is inherently bad - as I pointed out there are abundant strategems, skills and items that you are meant to utilise to get past this. It's one of the key strategy elements of the game.
Its sounding to me like you dont like the fact that the game doesnt have traditional attributes like D&D or SPECIAL has. You don't like the fact that the system is designed around characters being defined by their skills [attributes] and powahz [skills].

You also apparently don't like having to think about how to optimally use your limited resources/reserves in a sticky situation.
Oh well.

Once again, your inability to "try shit out" is being displayed. Double-click on your kit, hovering (or right clicking) on the tab for the other container will open that container. Then click on the item you want to identify or salvage.
Geeeezzzzuusss.

Oh yeah, that's not clumsy!

No, its not. It requires a double click to "activate" the salvage item (oh noes!) and one other click on the item you're salvaging (oh noes!).
Once again...Geeeezzzzuusss
(You're just pissy cos you couldn't work such a simple mechanism out ;-) )

 

[Shagnak]

You get more experience for soloing, but if you add henchmen to your party you divide your experience with them.

Are you certain about that?
Deathboy and I disagreed about this...I didn't notice any experience differences you see (but I almost always bulk out my party), but I'm willing to be proven wrong cos I mainly disagreed with Deathboy cos its just fun :wink:

 

[Sarvis]

You can capture his elite skills that you can't get anywhere else. I'd call that 'remotely' interesting.

What? How? I want elite skills!

 

[Sol Invictus]

Well, sometime later in the game, you'll encounter boss monsters with elite skills that you can't find elsewhere. Some of the early monsters have them too - at least a couple I've met did, but I didn't have a "Signet of Capture" at the time, so I couldn't take them. The early boss monster in the cave just after you end the pre-searing had the elite skill "Barrage", for Rangers. I noticed that, anyhow. It's a pretty hard to find skill, but if you're a Ranger focusing on Marksmanship, it's a must-have.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Oh yeah, another fun thing about PVE is the amazing number of situations you'll come across, with all the different variations of enemies there are in the game, so even if you have a powerful build, you may very well come across some situation where it doesn't work so well and you may have to rethink your skill choices.

For example, when I was planning out my Mesmer I focused on energy depletion and damage-over-time hexes, but that build really didn't work very well against non-mages because I didn't anticipate that they could have a similar anti-caster build or have some way to get rid of my hexes, so I've since ditched my Inspiration/Illusion build in favor of an Inspiration/Domination build with hexes that allow me to cause them damage whenever they try to attack or cast a spell, and to deal with their hexes, I've since ditched my "Inspired Hex" skill which doesn't work well at all when faced against an enemy Hexer, in favor of a spell that anticipates Hexes, called Hex Breaker.

Inspired Hex:

Description: Remove a Hex from target ally and gain 3/13 energy. For the next 20 seconds, Inspired Hex is replaced with the Hex that was removed.
Energy Cost: 5.
Casting Time: 1 second.
Recharge Time: None.
Linked Attribute: Inspiration Magic. Increases energy gained.
Skill Type: Spell.

Unfortunately the problem with Inspired Hex is that when faced against multiple Hexers or a caster with several Hexes, I'm screwed for 20 seconds. It might work well with a build specific to counter enemy hexers, but it didn't work well enough for me. So I picked this:

Hex Breaker

Description: For 60/180 seconds, the next time you are the target of a Hex, that Hex fails, the caster suffers 10/39 damage and Hex Breaker ends.
Energy Cost: 10.
Casting Time: Instant.
Recharge Time: 20 seconds.
Linked Attribute: Domination Magic. Increases damage.
Skill Type: Stance.

I can anticipate Hexes and cast it (instantly) each time for a very minimum cost of 5 points. It's been suggested to me to use "Shatter Hex" but that costs 15 mana in exchange to causing the enemy some damage, but the cast time (1 second) and the recharge time (10 seconds) is too long for self-protection.

I learned how to use and appreciate Hex Breaker after I earned it as a reward in the storyline and would have never thought to use it otherwise had I just bought it from a trainer or something. I think that it's good that they implemented skills via quests, because it gives players the chance to try their skills out one at a time.

That said, I'm still improving my build, and can't wait to capture "Energy Drain" for myself. I still need a better way to produce damage, though. Perhaps Mind Wrack + Energy Drain and Arcane Echo for repeated casting, hmm.

I don't even carry a res signet, because what's the point? If I'm the only one left, there's very little chance for me to revive the group given my status as an indirect/support fire character. I'll let the monks and the 'hardy' characters deal with that, because I wouldn't be able to fire off a resurrection signet mid-combat and survive for very long.

 

[space captain]

thats totally fuckin 1337, dood

 

[Sarvis]

Well, sometime later in the game, you'll encounter boss monsters with elite skills that you can't find elsewhere. Some of the early monsters have them too - at least a couple I've met did, but I didn't have a "Signet of Capture" at the time, so I couldn't take them. The early boss monster in the cave just after you end the pre-searing had the elite skill "Barrage", for Rangers. I noticed that, anyhow. It's a pretty hard to find skill, but if you're a Ranger focusing on Marksmanship, it's a must-have.

So then... where would you get the signet of capture? Especially pre-searing? I thought I did pretty much everything I could pre-searing...

 

[Shagnak]

I'm fucking spurting in my pants RIGHT NOW.
Fucking bastard, how am I gonna get allthis shit out? :-(

The early boss monster in the cave just after you end the pre-searing had the elite skill "Barrage", for Rangers

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww....FUCK
Actually. kiddding aside, I'm doin pretty good with my ranger/mes combo anyways.
Punish the HTH fucks with Empathy, punish the uber spell casters with the spell equiv, intersperse with cumulative damege shite, punish them with bonused/area-affected arrows during Energy regen.
Achoooolly..there is more to it than that (take some Energy Burn sssuucckkkeeeers), but Im fucked and kinnae remember the details.
Uber 1337 srategem post d00d.

I feel 20 years younger ;-)

@Sarvis: hmmmm.... me tooooo.
mind you, MerryAndrew showed me some stuff I wasn't aware of (good explorer that bugger), and same with Penny, so theres a good chance we both missed some stuff.
And i showed a heap of people some other shit . Don't feel bad

 

[Sol Invictus]

Well, sometime later in the game, you'll encounter boss monsters with elite skills that you can't find elsewhere. Some of the early monsters have them too - at least a couple I've met did, but I didn't have a "Signet of Capture" at the time, so I couldn't take them. The early boss monster in the cave just after you end the pre-searing had the elite skill "Barrage", for Rangers. I noticed that, anyhow. It's a pretty hard to find skill, but if you're a Ranger focusing on Marksmanship, it's a must-have.

So then... where would you get the signet of capture? Especially pre-searing? I thought I did pretty much everything I could pre-searing...

You can't get the signet of capture in pre-searing. You have to do a quest in Lion's Arch to get it. But you'll run into a boss with that Barrage skill later, so don't worry.

And yes, you did everything.

edit: well it's possible you missed some stuff but I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[PennyAnte]

I find that doing large numbers of side quests often brings you by collectors, rare materials merchants and other sometimes-hard-to-find game elements.

Sort of like the eldritch sextant quest getting you to Serenity Temple, which you might not find otherwise. Little locations like that can have other quests with skills as rewards too.

I often find that after doing an extensive side quest, I've cleared a huge part of an area, so I just clear the rest and find out if there's anything in the nooks and crannies.

It's a lot of detouring, but hey, detouring is fun.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I hear the Ascension quests are insanely difficult without a party (e.g. henchmen are too stupid to counter enemy attacks). I look forward to them.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I'll take that as a "yes." Or a "both".
The Ranger's Expertise attribute being different between rangers means that those rangers have different Energy costs. Having different attribute values means that those Rangers will be....err....different at everything. Self explanatory really.

Im not certain if other classes can affect their Energy levels with attributes like the Ranger can. I don't know why this is inherently bad - as I pointed out there are abundant strategems, skills and items that you are meant to utilise to get past this. It's one of the key strategy elements of the game.
Its sounding to me like you dont like the fact that the game doesnt have traditional attributes like D&D or SPECIAL has. You don't like the fact that the system is designed around characters being defined by their skills [attributes] and powahz [skills].

You also apparently don't like having to think about how to optimally use your limited resources/reserves in a sticky situation.
Oh well.

It was a random example about energy, but the point still stands. Without being able to fine tune things like strength, agility, etc. to boost hit points, mana, run speed, or whatever, you're losing a gigantic part of character customization that nearly all CRPGs have - including the action variety.

No, its not. It requires a double click to "activate" the salvage item (oh noes!) and one other click on the item you're salvaging (oh noes!).
Once again...Geeeezzzzuusss
(You're just pissy cos you couldn't work such a simple mechanism out ;-) )

It's clumsy because the inventory should all be on one screen, including the paperdoll. Not in like sections here and there with tabs and a gigantic paperdoll so you have to go hunting through your individual bags to find something.

Press f9. Opens all bags.

Which doesn't have the paperdoll for equiping items. Sure, you can still double click on them, but you can't check out your armor and weapon to see if what you're equiping is better.

Btw, signet of resurrection is gay. Save the slot for a better skill.

It's gay until all your party except you dies, which happens quite a bit.

 

[Shagnak]

No, its not. It requires a double click to "activate" the salvage item (oh noes!) and one other click on the item you're salvaging (oh noes!).
Once again...Geeeezzzzuusss
(You're just pissy cos you couldn't work such a simple mechanism out ;-) )

It's clumsy because the inventory should all be on one screen, including the paperdoll. Not in like sections here and there with tabs and a gigantic paperdoll so you have to go hunting through your individual bags to find something.

I have yet to have a problem navigating it. It's easy, self-explanatory, and not clumsy.
I still think you're being a dick about this particular issue :wink:

 

[PennyAnte]

Saint, you are our very own Owen Meany.

(Not that I'm saying you're right about Guild Wars.)

EDIT: Links here and here for those of you who are less literary.

 

[Sarvis]

I'm beginning to get annoyed by the quest rewards in this game.

It seems like every single quest I do gives out at least one protective icon, and one sword/axe/hammer or whatever else. I'm a RANGER dammit! I can't think of more than maybe 2 quests which gave a bow for the reward...

But even if I were a class that had use for protective icons, why give out so many? I got two from one single quest last night... they had the same stats and everything. Do mages need to double up the things or something?

I think this is currently my biggest complaint with the game...

 

[PennyAnte]

Forget the item rewards. They're usually even lousy for classes who use that type of gear. The only benefit to them is that the objects usually sell for a little more than you would expect in the early game for such an item, 10-20 gp or so, which is healthy.

They're just a little "extra" thrown in for finishing.

Just focus on the the main rewards you get from finishing quests: xp, finding new locations and often skills. The skill quests = the best ones.

For decent items, you have to look to drops, crafters and collectors. The quests aren't meant to supply good items, I think. That might change later in the game. Sol or Surlent would know better.