Most useless cRPG companions.

[Average Manatee]

You can multiclass to 500 different classes in wrath so it's kind of a moot point anyway. No character in the pathfinder games can really be considered useless, at most below average.

Eldritch Scoundrel is fine btw. If you can't figure out how adding level 6 spellcasting to a class doesn't make it better then you shouldn't be playing D&D-based games.

 

[plem]

1. Which is exactly my point, Eldritch Scoundrel is a terrible hybrid class with no useful synergies between rogue and wizard.

I believe I just pointed out the useful synergies vis-à-vis survivability, and the rogue isn't lacking in any other department. besides those I've mentioned, Greater False Life, Blink, Displacement and Stoneskin also help shore up defenses. if you want more, high INT has obvious synergy with skill monkeys and Animal Aspect is an even bigger buff to skills. so spellcasting compensates for the Rogue's weaknesses and piles on even more advantages where he's already strong.

2. Who gives a hoot about Archmage Armor, a regular high DEX rogue with the proper feats can have good AC as well

good AC =/= best AC. in a game where enemies have multiple attacks with gigantic bonus, some 10 points of AC make a good difference. besides, wasn't your argument that ES was *worse* than regular rogue? the fact that regular rogues can have good AC but not quite as good as ES with Archmage Armor is not an argument that regular rogue is *better* than ES.

besides when your rogue is being targeted you're doing it wrong

in Wrathfinder, survivability comes in the form of AC and Woljif has higher AC than most other companions. sure, it's nothing compared to a cheesy Sacred Fist / Oracle with Crane Style build, but we're talking about his merits as a companion so he should be compared to other companions and not the PC. compared to traditional "tanky" classed companions like Seelah, Woljif has way higher AC potential.

3. Let's pretend that's true

it is.

then there's still no reason for Eldritch Scoundrel to exist because any other old magic user can just cast blur etc

other magic users have better uses for spell slots. and ES also gets Shield, False Life, Vampiric Shield, etc among many other personal-range spells.

you're only losing out on mirror image, which isn't that good anyway

Mirror Image is better than Blur, and maybe the best defensive spell in the game for its level. it's a minute-per-level duration spell that can soak in multiple attacks regardless of attack modifiers. what's not to love?

4. Wasting a level just to give him proficiency with better weapons (like kukris, of which there are much better ones than daggers) just so you have access to redundant self buffs is a bad deal.

regular rogues don't have martial proficiency either. again, how is it *worse* than regular rogue? you can believe the buffs aren't that great (and you'd be wrong, but whatever) but how is a "bad deal" to have them instead of nothing?

 

[laclongquan]

Dynaheir? Don't remember anyone talking about her, people ususally arranged "accidents" that separated her from Minsc so you can have free slot for Edwin...

Sparkle & Myles - good for not-minmaxers looking for a variety and challenge (by additional burdens)

Dynaheir's not useless, exactly, since sorcerer can be a powerful role.

But she tighten the tactical possibility. What if we dont want to use sorcerer?

Plus, she's an ugly one~ This one actually a valid reason why people like me dropped her into a deadly situation, 9/10 runs. If her character is, I dunno, pretty/sexy, and better avatar graphic... that ratio would be only 5/10 (because forced to use sorcerer still rankle).

Miria in Fallout 2, now, is useless. Most people would keep her only for the divorce event. Later on there's a mod that make Miria level up and not so useless anymore, but that's twenty years after F2 release~

Myron is not useless because he's the one where we can do the chems crafting: stim, super stim. It's a bloody challenge keeping him alive, but I dont consider that genius boy to be useless, considering super stim has widespread application for Chosen One. Without him that application fall right down to one or twice per game, with him it's as much as you can gather raw ingredient to make supers.

 

[notpl]

Woljif from Wrathfinder. Eldritch scoundrel is a terrible hybrid and he's both a shitty rogue and a shitty wizard because of it.

Woljif is a phenomenal wizard. Spell sneak attacks are outrageously powerful in pathfinder, and items which grant damage boosts to specific spells/schools stack with the precision damage of sneak attack, so for example Woljiff as a rogue/arcane trickster casting maximized force sphere while holding the edge of force and some caster level-boosting items can one-shot any boss in the game, barring the (surprisingly few!) who are immune to precision damage.

The mistake everyone makes with woljif is trying to use him like a rogue. He isn't - I never made a single melee attack with him. He's a spell cannon who does the highest possible single-action damage in the game. And he does so with ranged touch attacks and high dexterity, and arcane tricksters can make enemies flat-footed at will, meaning he can easily hit even the most inflated ACs.

Honestly, I'm blown away by your "no synergy" comment. Did you just not realize that spell sneak attacks exist in this system? I find it incredibly hard to theorycraft a mage who isn't at least part rogue; arcane trickster gets full sneak attack and spellcasting progression, there's simply no reason not to take it.

 

[KateMicucci]

Hmm. Too many to list. My vote goes to Imoen (Baldur's Gate 2), Jaheira (Baldur's Gate 2), Hexxat (Baldur's gate 2), Mischa (Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession), Vladislav (Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession), and Elf (Dungeon of Naheulbeuk).

who tf is Hexxat?

 

[NecroLord]

Dynaheir? Don't remember anyone talking about her, people ususally arranged "accidents" that separated her from Minsc so you can have free slot for Edwin...

Sparkle & Myles - good for not-minmaxers looking for a variety and challenge (by additional burdens)

Dynaheir's not useless, exactly, since sorcerer can be a powerful role.

But she tighten the tactical possibility. What if we dont want to use sorcerer?

Plus, she's an ugly one~ This one actually a valid reason why people like me dropped her into a deadly situation, 9/10 runs. If her character is, I dunno, pretty/sexy, and better avatar graphic... that ratio would be only 5/10 (because forced to use sorcerer still rankle).

Miria in Fallout 2, now, is useless. Most people would keep her only for the divorce event. Later on there's a mod that make Miria level up and not so useless anymore, but that's twenty years after F2 release~

Myron is not useless because he's the one where we can do the chems crafting: stim, super stim. It's a bloody challenge keeping him alive, but I dont consider that genius boy to be useless, considering super stim has widespread application for Chosen One. Without him that application fall right down to one or twice per game, with him it's as much as you can gather raw ingredient to make supers.

Dynaheir is an Invoker,not a Sorceress.

 

[Pink Eye]

Hmm. Too many to list. My vote goes to Imoen (Baldur's Gate 2), Jaheira (Baldur's Gate 2), Hexxat (Baldur's gate 2), Mischa (Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession), Vladislav (Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession), and Elf (Dungeon of Naheulbeuk).

who tf is Hexxat?

Some Vampire companion which Beamdog introduced in their Enhanced Edition of Baldur's Gate 2.

 

[NecroLord]

 

[Desiderius]

She comes skill focused in rogue skills despite not having them as a class skill. She's an even shittier version of a druid, with a truncated version of the worst spell list in the game.

It's 3/4 BAB spellcaster with access to level 9 spell and she gain martial skill along the way + the various hex. That's a very solid class, the focus on DEX is unfortuatly true for 75% of the npc. As per the writing, it's bad, but leave to pathfinder to have the only heterosexual character to be irremediable evil.

3/4 BAB spellcaster with access to bad level 9 spells, and 16 in her casting stat. The Shaman does not get the full druid spell list, and the druid spell list is already the worst of the Big 4. The only way to make her worthwhile is by abusing mythic abilities that would make ANY character ludicrously powerful, and she'll be worse than any of the other companions using those same broken strategies.

Lol she has three full action economies that are all dominant.

Can even Second Spirit into a fourth if you want.

You sucking DNE companion sucking. Only problem with Cam is the quest, which is kind of the joke I guess.

 

[KateMicucci]

Sten in Dragon Age Origins. Ugly, boring, weakest class (2-handed), disapproves of you doing sidequests

(((Juhani))) from KOTOR. Game had too many companions already. It didn't need an ugly catwoman with a mohawk. First gay Bioware character too. David Gaider said Juhani's appearance in Knights of the Old Republic was a watershed moment which inspired him to write more LGBT-related content and advocate for greater inclusivity in BioWare's later video game projects during his employment with the company.

 

[Desiderius]

Woljif from Wrathfinder. Eldritch scoundrel is a terrible hybrid and he's both a shitty rogue and a shitty wizard because of it.

Woljif is a phenomenal wizard. Spell sneak attacks are outrageously powerful in pathfinder, and items which grant damage boosts to specific spells/schools stack with the precision damage of sneak attack, so for example Woljiff as a rogue/arcane trickster casting maximized force sphere while holding the edge of force and some caster level-boosting items can one-shot any boss in the game, barring the (surprisingly few!) who are immune to precision damage.

The mistake everyone makes with woljif is trying to use him like a rogue. He isn't - I never made a single melee attack with him. He's a spell cannon who does the highest possible single-action damage in the game. And he does so with ranged touch attacks and high dexterity, and arcane tricksters can make enemies flat-footed at will, meaning he can easily hit even the most inflated ACs.

Honestly, I'm blown away by your "no synergy" comment. Did you just not realize that spell sneak attacks exist in this system? I find it incredibly hard to theorycraft a mage who isn't at least part rogue; arcane trickster gets full sneak attack and spellcasting progression, there's simply no reason not to take it.

They're relatively weak compared to what you can do by just developing the way he's set up. Many such cases. He has every defensive ability/spell in the game and Debilitating even helps rest of team.

 

[notpl]

She comes skill focused in rogue skills despite not having them as a class skill. She's an even shittier version of a druid, with a truncated version of the worst spell list in the game.

It's 3/4 BAB spellcaster with access to level 9 spell and she gain martial skill along the way + the various hex. That's a very solid class, the focus on DEX is unfortuatly true for 75% of the npc. As per the writing, it's bad, but leave to pathfinder to have the only heterosexual character to be irremediable evil.

3/4 BAB spellcaster with access to bad level 9 spells, and 16 in her casting stat. The Shaman does not get the full druid spell list, and the druid spell list is already the worst of the Big 4. The only way to make her worthwhile is by abusing mythic abilities that would make ANY character ludicrously powerful, and she'll be worse than any of the other companions using those same broken strategies.

Lol she has three full action economies that are all dominant.

Can even Second Spirit into a fourth if you want.

View attachment 28123

You sucking DNE companion sucking. Only problem with Cam is the quest, which is kind of the joke I guess.

Wow, yeah, camellia is great because... she can critically hit with metamagicked spells? Like any spellcaster? She still has 16 in her primary casting stat, 15 in a dump stat, and gets a heavily nerfed druid spell list. Lann could be multiclassed into a druid at level 2 and produce this same screenshot. Woljif can quadruple that damage with sense vitals impromptu sneak attack force orb.

You get her at level 1, you can develop camellia into a decent character just because pathfinder gives you full spec control over your companions, I realize this. The fact remains that virtually every decision made for her by the developers at level 1 is wrong.

 

[Desiderius]

Oh what a good fucking character who has to use up all of his spell slots so he can do what a regular ass rogue can do a lot sooner, not to mention that mirror image and blur are utterly useless against all bosses AND he still can only use daggers.

1. why else would you use your spell slots? if you want your rogue to play like a wizard, roll a wizard.

2. he doesn't do what a regular rogue does, he does it better. Archmage Armor gets you way more AC than a regular rogue could get, and regular rogues don't get access to defensive spells at all except through UMD.

3. since True Seeing doesn't work RAW in this game, Blur and Mirror Image *does* work against bosses and against regular mobs. unless you mean bosses that target saves and not AC in which case I don't see how ES is any worse than a regular rogue.

4. all characters can only use one weapon type if you're building them properly. there's great daggers in this game with on-hit debuffs and/or buffs on equip. damage dice is irrelevant since they're completely overshadowed by sneak attack and DEX mod bonuses. and anyways you get more finesse training soon enough that you can switch him to another weapon if you really want to.

1. Which is exactly my point, Eldritch Scoundrel is a terrible hybrid class with no useful synergies between rogue and wizard.

2. Who gives a hoot about Archmage Armor, a regular high DEX rogue with the proper feats can have good AC as well, besides when your rogue is being targeted you're doing it wrong.

3. Let's pretend that's true, then there's still no reason for Eldritch Scoundrel to exist because any other old magic user can just cast blur etc. on any given rogue, you're only losing out on mirror image, which isn't that good anyway.

4. Wasting a level just to give him proficiency with better weapons (like kukris, of which there are much better ones than daggers) just so you have access to redundant self buffs is a bad deal.

1. Other than Shield spell, Stunning Barrier, Expeditious Retreat, Mirror Image, Shield spell, Sense Vitals, Mirror Image and Shield spell. Did I Mention Shield spell? Personal spells are a thing. Wolj can even get there as a Transmuter with the Hat that gives you Swift Hastes and Slows. Then there's endgame Hellfires.

2. ES can handle itself fine when targeted, but doesn't really need Archmage until late since it scales by Mythic Level. Losing Light Prof is significant given the good late Lights, you do have a point here.

3. see 1. The point that you can cover Wiz buffs for team with Scoundrel which frees up Wiz to cast offensive spells or leave Wiz home altogether, which is good early-midgame.

4. His weapons are fine already. Perfect place for Blitz Cut or Rapiers if you let Cam die, the Daggers are good anyway since Reducing/Sneaks/DEX-to-dam makes damage dice not matter. Retriever's Claw gives x3 crit multiplier and you get Blind on Crit early.

You're going to need a plan to Dispel things anyway so by the time True Seeing shows up you can use that (or Mind Blank now I guess). I just cast first round on hard fights then move in so don't get attacked much anyway.

 

[Desiderius]

Wow, yeah, camellia is great because... she can critically hit with metamagicked spells? Like any spellcaster?

What other Spellcaster can do that at that level? I'll let you try. Crit was gravy.

Maybe read the

abilities of the class

Secret Hex

before beclowning yourself.

CHR isn't a dump stat for Shaman. What saves do you need to beat with that 16 WIS? Missing one or two DC isn't going to kill you on a Stinking Cloud or whatever in any case. Conventional use if just buffing with her until late when you can get the WIS up easily. Divine Power OP.

Hampering Hex works for a round (all you should need) even on made save, bypasses SR and mind-immunity and kicks up to -4 at level 8 if you haven't butchered her progression with a Splash (what most Cam haters did). All three of her Action Economies scale like crazy with class level. Bane Weapon also shows up at lvl 8 and she comes with Ghost Touch.

 

[Sykar]

Hmm. Too many to list. My vote goes to Imoen (Baldur's Gate 2), Jaheira (Baldur's Gate 2), Hexxat (Baldur's gate 2), Mischa (Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession), Vladislav (Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession), and Elf (Dungeon of Naheulbeuk).

who tf is Hexxat?

Enjoy:
https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Hexxat

 

[notpl]

Wow, yeah, camellia is great because... she can critically hit with metamagicked spells? Like any spellcaster?

What other Spellcaster can do that at that level? I'll let you try. Crit was gravy.

Maybe read the

abilities of the class

Secret Hex

before beclowning yourself.

CHR isn't a dump stat for Shaman. What saves do you need to beat with that 16 WIS? Missing one or two DC isn't going to kill you on a Sinking Cloud or whatever in any case. Hampering Hex works for a round (all you should need) even on made save, bypasses SR and mind-immunity and kicks up to -4 at level 8 if you haven't butchered her progression with a Splash (what most Cam haters did). All three of her Action Economies scale like crazy with class level. Bane Weapon also shows up at lvl 8 and she comes with Ghost Touch.

Does your argument for camellia seriously boil down to the fact that she can select a bonus metamagic feat

Also, serious question, why isn't CHA a dump stat for them? Their hexes are supposed to use WIS for the dc unless Owlcat bugged it.

 

[gurugeorge]

Gotta be that fucking halfling bard in NWN2, Grobnnir or whatever he was called. Useless cunt (especially since I always play bards myself in D&D ).

 

[Desiderius]

Wow, yeah, camellia is great because... she can critically hit with metamagicked spells? Like any spellcaster?

What other Spellcaster can do that at that level? I'll let you try. Crit was gravy.

Maybe read the

abilities of the class

Secret Hex

before beclowning yourself.

CHR isn't a dump stat for Shaman. What saves do you need to beat with that 16 WIS? Missing one or two DC isn't going to kill you on a Sinking Cloud or whatever in any case. Hampering Hex works for a round (all you should need) even on made save, bypasses SR and mind-immunity and kicks up to -4 at level 8 if you haven't butchered her progression with a Splash (what most Cam haters did). All three of her Action Economies scale like crazy with class level. Bane Weapon also shows up at lvl 8 and she comes with Ghost Touch.

Does your argument for camellia seriously boil down to the fact that she can select a bonus metamagic feat

I only do that because I have to let her go shortly thereafter and it's a good way to handle Devarra. She's also dominant if played conventionally with or without Barrage. And you can even keep her as Winter Witch the whole game and own with that if you want. She doesn't just get *a* bonus Metamagic Feat, she can get more than any other Caster with all the Hexes (note: Witch can't, this a Shaman only). Combine that with Favorite meta and you can stack them higher earlier than a Wiz. And she's not spontaneous so casts them as Standard Action unlike Sorc.

Why are idiots who can't even read abilities so arrogant?

IIRC CHR determines activations although I think Hagbound Vile Curse ability was using CHR DC for some reason. Second Spirit Life is pretty handy on Cam to pick up a Rez and Restoration for Drezen and it also gives her Channeling which uses CHR. The AoE Morale Aura uses CHR bonus for duration(it's pretty bad) but the later ones are better I think.

 

[KateMicucci]

Gotta be that fucking halfling bard in NWN2, Grobnnir or whatever he was called. Useless cunt (especially since I always play bards myself in D&D ).

why?

never made sense to me why murderhobos would need their own portable soundtrack

 

[notpl]

So yes, your argument boils down to bonus metamagic. Is she able to select that hex more than once or something? She isn't supposed to be able to, so forgive me for assuming the system was implemented correctly.

 

[Nazrim Eldrak]

Rasaad yn Bashir in BG1 because he is a monk.
Of course, there are many more useless characters I could mention, but he's the one who gives a face to an entire class in D&D, which is very weak.

 

[Desiderius]

So yes, your argument boils down to bonus metamagic. Is she able to select that hex more than once or something? She isn't supposed to be able to, so forgive me for assuming the system was implemented correctly.

No, my argument is to give her Weapon Focus Rapier at 3 and Fencing Grace at 5, Iceplant with the Ring and Hampering Hex, and don't butcher her with a splash then you can slay like everyone else is (while Barkskinning your team) and stop beclowning yourself. The metamagic build is a gimmick to (over-)emphasize the point.

 

[notpl]

Thank you for reminding me that Camellia sucks so bad the developers had to include a cheat item specifically to make her useful as a tank in the early-game. The coomers over at owlcat clearly simped just as hard for her as you do.

 

[Desiderius]

Let me guess - you haven't figured out how to use Reduce Person yet. That's the common thread among the anti-Wolj/Cam/Reg retards. Probably the main benefit of going DEX-based. Crane Style in a can.

In fact I don't use Iceplant or the Ring, but that's what everyone else does so I thought since you're slow you might need it. Hampering Hex + the free Dazzling to set up Shatter and you’re good. With Reduce and your own Barkskins and Prot Evil your AC is fine without Iceplant.

 

[Sarathiour]

The "weakest" party member in wrath is probably greybor, because he bring nothing to the team and start with already 10 level, so not much build opportunity.
I guess a case could also be made for trever, but most people probably don't even know that he exist.