Might and Magic Might & Magic X Pre-Release Thread

[Charles-cgr]

Grunker Nope. I can't say for Skyrim which I've never played but for many games walking around is a tedium for me and making it work well is probably very costly (something they might have done for Skyrim, which had a huge budget, but probably couldn't pull off with the low budget MMX).

Also saying that moving around on a grid is annoying is a matter of preference. Many, including myself, don't find it annoying at all, namely because the hassles I mentioned can't happen. Also probably because I grew up with it. Acquired tastes...

 

[Varnaan]

The problem with this system is that it would probably alienate both sides, people expecting to be able to cheese the game by kiting everything and using bows and people expecting the game to be completely grid based.

They already went the 6-8 way for the number of party members and skill system and that's something I'm concerned about, and I believe I'm not the only one, so maybe, just maybe, letting us keep the grid is a fair compromise.

 

[Grunker]

Out of curiosity, why are you concerned with the skill system?

 

[Charles-cgr]

To summarize I prefer grid-based because it allows to not struggle with movement at all and be able to focus on other parts of the game that are way more important. I don't think nostalgia has anything to do with it but I do concede that having been "educated" to it helps and those that haven't might be turned off by it's less natural aspect.

 

[Grunker]

To summarize I prefer grid-based because it allows to not struggle with movement at all

Disagree.

I do concede that having been "educated" to it helps and those that haven't might be turned off by it's less natural aspect.

I started with this systems as well, don't forget that.

 

[Lady_Error]

Grid-based movement strikes me the same way. It chips away at immersion a bit

I think grid-based movement actually helps immersion. The free-movement games usually do not come close to the immersion of grid-based classics such as Wizardry, Lands of Lore, etc.

There are two different ways of creating immersion:

One way is to go the hyper-realistic route such as all the AAA RPG's of the previous decade have done. The other way is to let the player use his or her imagination. That is actually the old school way and in my opinion is even more fun.

Although I believe the free movement -> combat grid transition would be a pretty terrible idea, do you have any example of a game doing it ?

Games like Realms of Arkania 2 also had a switch where you could explore the grid-based environments either in step-movement or free movement.

 

[Grunker]

I don't think immersion can be discussed like you do, which is why I never mentioned it as an argument. Though I certainly agree that 360 degree simulationism is a bad way of creating immersion since small errors become more glaring that way.

 

[Lady_Error]

I don't think immersion can be discussed like you do, which is why I never mentioned it as an argument.

Why not? I think that the old school style immersion is actually a big argument in favor of grid-based movement.

 

[Charles-cgr]

Grunker Maybe you're just more nimble than I am with said movements. Or less easily distracted by its drawbacks.

There's no right or wrong answer anyway. It's a matter of taste and/or habit, first and foremost. As to whether MMX should adopt free-roaming I think the most important facts to consider are numbers. How many grid based games still getting made? How many people still want them? If the budget is low enough to risk a 20 hour game, those that don't adhere have plenty of alternatives to choose from.

 

[Infinitron]

I like to think of grid-based movement as a way in which a game can be focused on a certain type of exploration. It tells the player something about how the game is to be approached and what he needs to do in the game world.

 

[Varnaan]

Out of curiosity, why are you concerned with the skill system?

I find that having to run around to find the proper trainer for X skill, the superior trainers not being able to teach you the lower ranks and the overall rank system to be a bother and some sort of bloat.
Swimming and mountaineer were a pretty cool concept honestly and I regret that the free movement system kind of forced them to be turned into waterwalking/beacon/flying, it's probably gasping at straws but it's a bit of flavor that could have fixed the slope problems I mentioned earlier to a degree.

Games like Realms of Arkania 2 also had a switch where you could explore the grid-based environments either in step-movement or free movement.

Yeah but the combat system isn't first person turn based and the game isn't really similar to M&M with the "overmap" system, as was mentioned in another thread tailoring the world for both free movement and grid can be detrimental to the overall experience.

 

[Sceptic]

Warning, huge wall of text incoming, but you asked for it Sceptic

Your wall of text deserves a more detailed response than I can write at 1am. I would however like to address one issue.

Woah, bruv, don't get drama queen on me here. I don't hate you. I question your wisdom in this case. Unlike most others here I don't suddenly lose all respect for an individual simply because we disagree about something.

I find it ridicoulous that I must attone deeply for my transgressions regarding that comment - nevermind the fact that I actually apologized for it and have gotten no apologies in return for the bullshit launched in my direction.

FFS. Then they say it's the Germans that have no sense of humour. Clearly they meant the Danes

 

[sser]

Grids can be good for gameplay. It's just another system to be used with its own pros and cons like any other. IMO, it's usually more focused and harder to fuck up.

The later M&M games could be extremely popamole thanks to their free-range movement. They sprinkled whole armies in every nook of the world, leading to some Galaga type shit with every party member shooting arrows.

Free range usually means better exploration, but I think grids make for better combat more often than not.

 

[CappenVarra]

Dunno, I usually think of grid-based vs. free movement as analogous to fixed "isometric" vs. rotatable top-down camera - both options make sense in a certain context, but they drastically alter the focus of the game - and consequentially, one of the options is clearly superior for a given game premise.

Camera: Party-based quasi-tactical RPG? Fixed perspective all the way. City builder? Rotatable camera please.
Movement: Single-player game of hiking and faffing about? Free movement would be spiffy, thanks. Party-based continuation of a blobber series? Grid-based movement is the only option, and that's that. :D

 

[Infinitron]

The MMX team is looking for your feedback on "what's fun": https://mightandmagicx-legacy.ubi.com/opendev/blog/post/view/51bb15a8e754b66d09000002

Forum thread: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/773966-fun-what-is-it-and-how-chould-it-be-added-to-mmx

 

[Gozma]

A disturbingly retarded question at this stage of production

I assume this is some kind of thing trying to stoke internet forum people into being viral marketers

 

[Infinitron]

Duh.

They might get some interesting ideas while they're at it, though.

Also I like how there are Biodrones in the comments

 

[Alchemist]

I always face-palm when I hear a developer suddenly coming to the revelation that games should be "fun". Of course to be fair, the term is so subjective at this point as to be fairly useless. One man's fun is another man's tedium.

Anyway, I had hoped they had a clearer vision of what they want Might & Magic X to be. Design by crowdsourcing may not end so well. It's a shame they don't have Van Caneghem at the helm to give them a solid vision.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

The later M&M games could be extremely popamole thanks to their free-range movement. They sprinkled whole armies in every nook of the world, leading to some Galaga type shit

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Forum thread: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/773966-fun-what-is-it-and-how-chould-it-be-added-to-mmx

From the thread :

Previous Might & Magic games may have included sci-fi elements as a by-product of what was popular at the time. There were a lot of sci-fi literature, movies & television shows in the 90s. Not as many sci-fi material currently today.

Suuure.


As for the "Wat ? No sci-fi elements in MMX ?" discussion, I personally don't give a damn. "Turn-based + Grid-based" = "No Galaga shit", that's what I really care for.

 

[Varnaan]

There is no point in looking/asking for Sci-Fi elements anyway since they're using the new HoMM... I mean Might and Magic Heroes setting which is pretty much standard if not generic high fantasy.

 

[Gozma]

The sci-fi in M&M was not even really about it being "sci-fi", but just about the whole thing being made from the same unserious grab-bag of random disconnected nerd shit that makes you put a mummy and a robot and a crusader and a witch and a lamia in a dungeon (the Gygax-roguelike style you could call it). M&M does not have any feeling of reality or long-term narrative and never did. "There's a carnival at the entrance to the final dungeon huh? The dungeon in a floating castle that you walk over clouds to reach. Neat."

I'm worried they'll try to keep shit rationally grounded and force you face first into retarded '90s "worldbuilding" shitty drudge fantasy like it sounds the recent HoMMs have.

 

[Stabwound]

Of course it will be generic fantasy. That's what the canon M&M world is like, and they've established it as the long-term setting for all of the M&M games. I'm not completely familiar with the M&M setting but I don't think it has anything to do with the worlds from the previous games whatsoever, and that's a shame. The goofy shit is part of the charm of the older games.

 

[Dorateen]

It's about playing the game, not being immersed in another world.

Exactly, grid-based isn't a problem for a Might and Magic game. Immersion is the least important thing here. Might and Magic games are fun because of the gameplay, not because they're immersive hiking simulators.

Your point is well-taken, but I would be careful about throwing about the subjective immersion and diminishing its importance. When I first played Might & Magic II a quarter century ago, I was up until 6:00 am in front of the computer. I'd say I was pretty deeply immersed in the experience. And this was a grid-based crawler without any character portraits. The town of Middlegate, it has been written, was the hub of commerce in Cron, yet there was not a single townsperson to be found on the streets. It was all about abstraction and imagination, filling in the blanks, and being completely enchanted with New World Computing's creation.

I've said before that in an RPG, story is a priority, but should never be more important than gameplay. That's another way of saying gameplay deserves at least equal consideration among features. Classic Might & Magic mechanics are a welcome surprise and part of the intrigue of the upcoming Legacy. So I'm one of those players who appreciates the immersive gameplay and setting of the universe.

 

[Gozma]

Well I feel kind of apart from that, because I am not "filling in the blanks" of shit while playing M&M. The game world does not have "virtual people" in it that I am imagining having lives in the way like, Morrowind does. In a M&M a town is not a representation of a town, it's a gameplay space and an icon or token of a town. Like a dungeon level in a roguelike has no culture or history or imagined quotidian reality, it's an almost totally abstract gameplay space.