Middle-Earth: Shadow of War

[Commissar Draco]

Eh. I thought that I was enough of a grown-adult to not be surprised or upset when franchises I enjoy are turned into shambling frankencorpses that are only capable of making an absolute mockery of the author's original work. Didn't care when it happened with Star Wars or Indiana Jones, much less far more literary stuff like Dante's Inferno.

Why is it different for me with Tolkien?

Cause LOTR was not conceived as commercial Hollywood crap Comrade? I am not upset btw as those games are not cannon and its not like Christopher Tolkien is selling rights to Disney... Yet.

 

[Beastro]

Eh. I thought that I was enough of a grown-adult to not be surprised or upset when franchises I enjoy are turned into shambling frankencorpses that are only capable of making an absolute mockery of the author's original work. Didn't care when it happened with Star Wars or Indiana Jones, much less far more literary stuff like Dante's Inferno.

Why is it different for me with Tolkien?

Cause LOTR was not conceived as commercial Hollywood crap Comrade? I am not upset btw as those games are not cannon and its not like Christopher Tolkien is selling rights to Disney... Yet.

Just so long as the torch isn't passed to his son and to someone that will maintain JRR's work with even a fraction of the loyalty Christopher has:

Simon Tolkien notably disagreed with the policy of his grandfather's estate in regard to the The Lord of the Rings films. When Christopher Tolkien issued a statement that the "Tolkien estate would be best advised to avoid any specific association with the films",[10] Simon Tolkien broke ranks, offering to cooperate with the filmmakers, stating "It was my view that we take a much more positive line on the film and that was overruled by my father."[11] Following up a 2001 interview with the Independent, Simon in 2003 gave interviews to the Daily Telegraph and other media in which he discussed his strained relationship with his father, describing it as a permanent breach.[12] However, they have since reconciled.[1]

Simon Tolkien currently lives in southern California with his wife Tracy.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Tolkien

 

[Deleted member 7219]

The Jackson films were fine. They were the closest we are ever going to get to a true adaptation of Tolkien's work. The truth is that Tolkien just isn't as adaptable as something like George RR Martin's Westeros. But some of the liberties taken here strike me as completely lazy and without respect for the licence.

 

[Beastro]

The Jackson films were fine. They were the closest we are ever going to get to a true adaptation of Tolkien's work. The truth is that Tolkien just isn't as adaptable as something like George RR Martin's Westeros. But some of the liberties taken here strike me as completely lazy and without respect for the licence.

The best that can be said is it was made with more loyalty to the books that you're going to get out of Hollywood. Westeros and its adaptability most likely comes from Martin's past as a writer for TV and some possible intetion of eventually having it be turned into a movie or TV series. IIRC, sounds very much the same as Sink the Bismarck, of which the novel it was based on was written by CS Forester with a movie adaptation in mind so much to the point that the novel was practically a screenplay in itself.

But some of the liberties taken here strike me as completely lazy and without respect for the licence.

The problem with the worst of them, like the Elves at Helm's Deep and the mangling of Faramir after capturing Frodo and Sam were unneeded and done specifically because Jackson wanted them done that way.

I've never heard a good reason for them. I could see the Elves being something cool to see them in combat when the only one the novel had was Legolas, but the crap with Faramir I can see no justification for. Especially since it completely ruins a character who is meant to be the polar opposite of his brother and ignored and neglected by their father and much of their people precisely because he wasn't anything like Boromir.

I don't like to often nit pick movies, but it's bad when moments like those stand out so blatantly because they go completely against character and many very core themes of a work

 

[Deleted member 7219]

The Jackson films were fine. They were the closest we are ever going to get to a true adaptation of Tolkien's work. The truth is that Tolkien just isn't as adaptable as something like George RR Martin's Westeros. But some of the liberties taken here strike me as completely lazy and without respect for the licence.

The best that can be said is it was made with more loyalty to the books that you're going to get out of Hollywood. Westeros and its adaptability most likely comes from Martin's past as a writer for TV and some possible intetion of eventually having it be turned into a movie or TV series. IIRC, sounds very much the same as Sink the Bismarck, of which the novel it was based on was written by CS Forester with a movie adaptation in mind so much to the point that the novel was practically a screenplay in itself.

But some of the liberties taken here strike me as completely lazy and without respect for the licence.

The problem with the worst of them, like the Elves at Helm's Deep and the mangling of Faramir after capturing Frodo and Sam were unneeded and done specifically because Jackson wanted them done that way.

I've never heard a good reason for them. I could see the Elves being something cool to see them in combat when the only one the novel had was Legolas, but the crap with Faramir I can see no justification for. Especially since it completely ruins a character who is meant to be the polar opposite of his brother and ignored and neglected by their father and much of their people precisely because he wasn't anything like Boromir.

Your objections are valid but I can accept them and still like the films, because they are still things that can occur in Tolkien's world by the rules he set. I'm not so sure about Elven spirits and Shelob's human form.

 

[Beastro]

because they are still things that can occur in Tolkien's world by the rules he set. I'm not so sure about Elven spirits and Shelob's human form.

The Elven part is, from a world building and thematic point, the worst, since it was clear the Elves had withdrawn from the world and were only waiting to see if there was something worth fighting for before the end came (which is why those of Lothlorien still fought in the north "off screen", but were passive all the way up till then), and sending Legolas was the only direct bone they were going to throw beyond supporting the Fellowship as they traveled through their domains.

Those other things are crap and seem doable if very clear parts of the cosmology are ignored.

Tolkien himself set up a precedence for the former with Glorifndal so he does share a bit of the blame. His rule was that all Elven names are unique to one Elf, then noticed that he had two Glorfindals, but didn't want to part with one and rename him (as well as his desire to change as little as he could get away with). So that, in combination with the realization that he never touched upon reincarnation, but upon thinking it over didn't see a reason to not rule it out entirely in Middle Earth cosmology, simply decided it would be something very very very (very very very very) rare, explained that the Valar reincarnated him and the two were one Elf.

The developers (I don't follow these games so all of this is news to me) seem to have taken that further and shat upon it by putting an Elven spirit into a Man which is taking things beyond the cosmology he set up where Elves are very different from Men while the other races aren't all that much different from them to the point that they too share in the Gift of Man, to pass beyond even the spiritual domain of Middle Earth.

With Shelob..... the Maiar can take whatever shape they so decide, but within a limit, especially given that their forms seem to reflect their character the more they inhabit Middle Earth. Shelob being the daughter of one of the nastiest and most vile Maiar whose bloated spider form reflected who she really was like became no different than her mother.

All of this is why Sauron was originally a notable shape shiftier famous for taking pleasing forms, something which reflected his knack for manipulation, but a power he eventually lost after destroying Numenor as his behaviour seemingly locked him into his armour clad form (The Lidless Eye was never a direct physical representation of Sauron, was always a metaphor that Jackson then took literally and this is touched on when Pippin interacts with Sauron through the Palantir in the novel), all of which touches on the problems the evil Maiar face as the more they desire to control and dominate Middle Earth, the more of themselves is invested into the world that then limits their non-physical supernatural powers and makes them less and less the purely spiritual beings they once were.

That is why in the Silmarillion Melkor's burns from holding the Silmarils never healed and the foot Fingolfin hacked off never regrew (and also why one could assume Sauron progressively became "weaker", and became so far quicker than Melkor being a mere Maiar compared to the greatest of the Valar, albeit one of the powerful of them. Once he took over from Melkor his place as the one who desired to be the one and only lord and master of Creation and so explains the remote way he behaves in LOTR as well as the prolonged time it took for him to reconstitute himself after the War of the Last Alliance).

I would assume Shelob, being born from a Maiar and being born into her form, would be totally unable to change hers, but again, they're stretching what Tolkien laid out that goes against the realty of latter day Middle Earth while working within what he left unsaid, which is the nature of Maiar offspring.

I could see the Shelob thing being acceptable if it was done well, but I have no faith in a video game these days doing that.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

because they are still things that can occur in Tolkien's world by the rules he set. I'm not so sure about Elven spirits and Shelob's human form.

With Shelob..... the Maiar can take whatever shape they so decide, but within a limit, especially given that their forms seem to reflect their character the more they inhabit Middle Earth. Shelob being the daughter of one of the nastiest and most vile Maiar whose bloated spider form reflected who she really was like became no different than her mother.

All of this is why Sauron was originally a notable shape shiftier famous for taking pleasing forms, something which reflected his knack for manipulation, but a power he eventually lost after destroying Numenor as his behaviour seemingly locked him into his armour clad form (The Lidless Eye was never a direct physical representation of Sauron, was always a metaphor that Jackson then took literally and this is touched on when Pippin interacts with Sauron through the Palantir in the novel), all of which touches on the problems the evil Maiar face as the more they desire to control and dominate Middle Earth, the more of themselves is invested into the world that then limits their non-physical supernatural powers and makes them less and less the purely spiritual beings they once were.

That is why in the Silmarillion Melkor's burns from holding the Silmarils never healed and the foot Fingolfin hacked off never regrew (and also why one could assume Sauron progressively became "weaker", and became so far quicker than Melkor being a mere Maiar compared to the greatest of the Valar, albeit one of the powerful of them. Once he took over from Melkor his place as the one who desired to be the one and only lord and master of Creation and so explains the remote way he behaves in LOTR as well as the prolonged time it took for him to reconstitute himself after the War of the Last Alliance).

I would assume Shelob, being born from a Maiar and being born into her form, would be totally unable to change hers, but again, they're stretching what Tolkien laid out that goes against the realty of latter day Middle Earth while working within what he left unsaid, which is the nature of Maiar offspring.

I could see the Shelob thing being acceptable if it was done well, but I have no faith in a video game these days doing that.

I took the Lidless Eye to be the final form Sauron was able to manifest following his defeat by Isildur. If he regained the One Ring he might be able to assume his armoured form again and walk the earth but without it, he was a spirit. I took the Eye to be a very real representation of him that existed in the world until the ring was destroyed.

 

[orcinator]

If the gameplay is good

the dumbest part of your post

 

[Rahdulan]

Those hacks don't know when to stop, Jesus.

Just think of it as expensive fan fiction. That's really the only way to make either story fit anywhere.

 

[majestik12]

The "Middle-Earth" is the suckiest part of this franchise. They picked an ill-fitting setting and went on to butcher it. There are no selling points in that for people who don't care about Tolkien, and the ones who do only get pissed. The only reason why it's there is the (((management's))) idiocy and its idol of TEH PREEXISTING INTELEKSHUL PROPERTEE. Generic-Fantasy: Shadow of Fantasy would have worked better. Or at least a setting with less elaborate canon which allows enough space to fuck around.

 

[Silva]

Generic-Fantasy: Shadow of Fantasy

 

[Great Deceiver]

This shit will have loot boxes

 

[StrongBelwas]

Might as well post the proper announcement for lulz: https://community.wbgames.com/t5/Official-Announcements/Introducing-the-Market/m-p/1611183

The innovative Nemesis System created unique personal stories through procedurally-generated enemies who remember every encounter and are differentiated by their personality, strengths and weaknesses. Middle-earth: Shadow of War expands this innovation with the introduction of followers who bring about entirely new stories of loyalty, betrayal and revenge. The Nemesis System is also expanded to create a unique personal world through Nemesis fortresses, which allows players to utilize different strategies to conquer dynamic strongholds and create personalized worlds with their unique Orc army.

An important aspect of the Nemesis System now comes in forging, customizing and leading your own army of unique Orc followers against the fortresses of Mordor. There are different ways to do this, including dominating Orcs by exploring the vast open-world and encountering them as part of Orc society, or players can acquire Orcs and other items through the Market (in-game store).

Through the Market, players can purchase Loot Chests, War Chests, XP Boosts and Bundles (accessed only with an internet connection).

Spoiler

• Loot Chests contain Gear (weapons and armor) of varying rarity. Equipping and upgrading these weapons and armor enhance Talion’s character abilities. Loot Chests can also contain XP Boosts that help level up Talion faster.

• War Chests provide Orc followers of varying rarity to help forge a strong army. They can also contain Training Orders to level up and customize Orc followers.
• XP Boosts are consumables that help level up Talion faster.
• Bundles package up Loot Chests, War Chests and Boosts together at a great value.

To purchase these items, players can spend Mirian or Gold throughout the game as one progresses. Mirian is a type of in-game currency that can be acquired by:
• Defeating Treasure Orcs
• Destroying Gear for Mirian
• Destroying Orc followers for Gear (which can be destroyed for Mirian)
• Finding Mirian stashes throughout the game
Gold is another form of in-game currency that can be used to get higher level Loot Chests, War Chests, Boosts and Bundles of the aforementioned content. Gold can be acquired by:

• Purchasing through the PlayStation Store, Xbox Store or by adding to your Steam Wallet using real money.
• Awarded in small amounts at specific milestones.
• Awarded for participating in community challenges.

Please note: No content in the game is gated by Gold. All content can be acquired naturally through normal gameplay.


What is Mirian and how do I earn it?

• Mirian is a form of in-game currency that players earn by playing the game. Along with Gold, Mirian can be used to purchase Loot Chests and War Chests from the Market. Mirian can be acquired by:

• Defeating Treasure Orcs
• Destroying Gear for Mirian
• Destroying Orc followers for Gear (which can be destroyed for Mirian)
• Finding Mirian stashes throughout the game

What is Gold and how do I earn it?

• Gold is a form of in-game currency awarded in small amounts at specific milestones and for participating in community challenges. It can also be purchased for real money through the PlayStation Store, Xbox Store and by adding funds to your Steam Wallet. Along with Mirian, Gold can be used to purchase Loot Chests, War Chests and Boosts from the Market.

What can I get with Gold?

• Along with Mirian, players can use Gold to purchase Loot Chests that contain Gear for Talion (weapons and armor), War Chests that provide Orcs for your army of followers and Boosts that help level up Talion faster.

Do I have to pay for Gold?

• No, Gold is awarded in small amounts at specific milestones and for participating in community challenges. It can also be purchased through the PlayStation Store, Xbox Store and by adding funds to your Steam Wallet using real money. Everything a player can buy with Gold can also be earned in the game over time for free, but Gold gives players the option to acquire these items faster. No Gold purchases are necessary to enjoy the complete game experience.

What do you mean when you say Gold can save time?

• By simply engaging with the world and playing through Middle-earth: Shadow of War, you earn items like Gear for Talion and unique Orcs for your army. These are the same items that are found in the Market within Loot Chests and War Chests. Gold merely allows you to get your hands on them immediately, cutting down some of the additional time that would have been spent winning more battles, tracking nemeses, completing quests and assaulting fortresses.

Does Gold give me an advantage in the game?

• No, Gold does not give you any advantage over other players. A player who invests enough time can progress the same amount and have access to the same content as a player who purchases Gold. Gold is not required to progress or advance in the game at all.

Are there unique items in the market purchased using Gold that you can’t get through normal play?

• No, all of the aforementioned items can be earned playing through the game. Gold merely allows you to get your hands on them immediately.

How much does Gold cost?

• Prices for Gold will be communicated at a later date.

 

[Ranarama]

Well at least it'll be free and available on android.

 

[orcinator]

Wtf, the amalgamation of cancerous AAA tropes now has lootboxes?

 

[TheChickenKing]

Honestly, I couldn't give less of a shit if loot boxes are used to doll out cosmetic items in multiplayer games. It's a shitty tactic to try and get people addicted to your game, but whatever. Hell, to expand the concept as far as possible, as long as whatever items it drops only give options and not advantages, it's fine. But... this is infecting singleplayer games now too? What the hell is the point? How could this ever positively effect a singleplayer game that's looking to draw me into its world and story? Loot boxes are, to say the absolute least, immersion breaking. I could give less of a shit about that stuff in multiplayer stuff, as those rarely focus on or do immersion right anyway. But this can't end well.

You know, I was kinda excited for this. I enjoyed dicking around with the Nemesis system in the first one, and fuck it, this one came out on my birthday. I was planning on dropping some cash on it as a gift to myself. But I cannot imagine that the pacing won't be seriously negatively effected by the loot boxes and microtransactions. Nothing good ever came out of releasing a poorly designed game and then allowing players to make it less grindy and boring by paying to progress faster.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Any game journo who puts this game on a 'Best of' list if it has loot boxes should be thrown into a gorilla pen.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

cutting down some of the additional time that would have been spent playing the game.

 

[Abu Antar]

Was going to wait for it to reach bundle status, but now I have removed this from my wishlist.

 

[Zombra]

Source? Does Monolith have a forum I've never been able to find?

 

[Abu Antar]

Source? Does Monolith have a forum I've never been able to find?

https://community.wbgames.com/t5/General/The-Market-Thread/m-p/1611280#M10912

 

[Zombra]

lol, two sections of their forums: "Console Games" and "Mobile Games" ...

 

[Abu Antar]

Why hello there.

SUMMARY OF POSITION:
Monolith Productions seeks a Senior Producer to be responsible for overseeing our Social and Connected Game Experience. This Key team member will help create and champion the vision of the Connected Experienceand ensure it aligns with the project’s leadership goals. The Senior Producer will be accountable for the quality and results that are achieved for assigned features.

JOB RESPONSIBILITIES:

• Help create and champion the vision of the Connected Experience and Online Features of the game.

JOB REQUIREMENTS:

• Minimum 3-6 years experience working as a Producer in the on an internal development team within the videogame industry.
• Shipped at least 1 title with an online focus.

 

[Metro]

Gameplay looks like the same shit all over again. Why would anyone pay $60 for this?

 

[Great Deceiver]

Any game journo who puts this game on a 'Best of' list if it has loot boxes should be thrown into a gorilla pen.