Hydro
Educated
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CoH/DoW comparison is pretty thin. I think of it as a classic character with different skills with the skills being his squad members e.g. adding antitank or sniper.CoH/DoW
CoH/DoW comparison is pretty thin. I think of it as a classic character with different skills with the skills being his squad members e.g. adding antitank or sniper.CoH/DoW
You could attach leaders to units in DoW and they gave units personality in scripted scenes.It looks like Dawn of War/Company of Heroes (Warcraft 3?), but maybe it will be more fleshed out.Squad leader is supposed to be the personality.So, infantry in Menace is more akin to RTS model; Company of Heroes and Dawn of War come to mind.Players can field two fundamentally different units, namely infantry squads and vehicles. Each infantry squad is led by a squad leader who also represents the unit in combat and is a distinct character who acts in events and more outside of combat.
The size of infantry squads can vary between 1 and 9 elements but will mostly be around 5. The unit shares one health pool, and one element will perish with a certain amount of hit points lost. This will reduce the unit's firepower as more and more fighters drop.
Vehicles have more personality than infantrymen, maybe because they are more valuable in gameplay.Vehicles also have a health pool, but instead of losing elements, a vehicle will collect “defects,” aka injuries. Defects range from an overloaded targeting computer to a disabled engine or might even lead to a catastrophic explosion, instantly wiping the vehicle out.
they mentioned that the squad leader has personality, and actual characters that interacts outside of tactical phase
so it's like CoH/DoW but the Leader unit is unique (much like Characters being attached in Warhammer 40,000 board game from my understanding)
These leaders were pretty static RPG wise with a limited amount of improvements available.You could attach leaders to units in DoW and they gave units personality in scripted scenes.It looks like Dawn of War/Company of Heroes (Warcraft 3?), but maybe it will be more fleshed out.Squad leader is supposed to be the personality.So, infantry in Menace is more akin to RTS model; Company of Heroes and Dawn of War come to mind.Players can field two fundamentally different units, namely infantry squads and vehicles. Each infantry squad is led by a squad leader who also represents the unit in combat and is a distinct character who acts in events and more outside of combat.
The size of infantry squads can vary between 1 and 9 elements but will mostly be around 5. The unit shares one health pool, and one element will perish with a certain amount of hit points lost. This will reduce the unit's firepower as more and more fighters drop.
Vehicles have more personality than infantrymen, maybe because they are more valuable in gameplay.Vehicles also have a health pool, but instead of losing elements, a vehicle will collect “defects,” aka injuries. Defects range from an overloaded targeting computer to a disabled engine or might even lead to a catastrophic explosion, instantly wiping the vehicle out.
they mentioned that the squad leader has personality, and actual characters that interacts outside of tactical phase
so it's like CoH/DoW but the Leader unit is unique (much like Characters being attached in Warhammer 40,000 board game from my understanding)
That is what get me worried. Not women in combat roles in board game. Its not real guys. Chill out.Units can see and shoot through all buildings and assets smaller than 3x3 tiles. Only larger structures or objects will block all lines of sight and fire. There has been a lot of development, testing, and trial and error behind this decision.
CoH and DoW (one of the sequels) could level up leaders and attach specialist weapons.These leaders were pretty static RPG wise with a limited amount of improvements available.
Same goes for squads.
Yeah, I know. Leveling up though was pretty nominal being rather a “choose an upgrade/item”. Specialist weapons like flamethrowers or plasmas indeed changed the capabilities of a squad, but again was pretty limited in options.CoH and DoW (one of the sequels) could level up leaders and attach specialist weapons.
Static compared to JA2 and X-COM - sure.
Sounds a lot like the painful decision to cut interiors from Battle Brothers becauseThat is what get me worried.Units can see and shoot through all buildings and assets smaller than 3x3 tiles. Only larger structures or objects will block all lines of sight and fire. There has been a lot of development, testing, and trial and error behind this decision.
they mentioned that the squad leader has personality, and actual characters that interacts outside of tactical phase
so it's like CoH/DoW but the Leader unit is unique (much like Characters being attached in Warhammer 40,000 board game from my understanding)
From game's Steam-page:they mentioned that the squad leader has personality, and actual characters that interacts outside of tactical phase
so it's like CoH/DoW but the Leader unit is unique (much like Characters being attached in Warhammer 40,000 board game from my understanding)
FFFFUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!! Why the fuck can't they have randomly generated characters. I don't want yet another tactical squad based game that I am probably not gonna play because they have "Unique" pre-set characters characters.
You are just assuming or making this up, right? The devs haven't actually said this? Please tell me that's the case.
Pike is the model marine – loyal to the Republic, and a professional soldier, unwavering in the face of adversity. Rewa suffers from the trauma of past scars, a violent rage constantly boiling beneath the surface. Lim owes Pike for saving his home colony, and distrusts non-Marines – but he'll have to learn to meet them in the middle as the going gets rough. Every squad leader in MENACE has a history and personality, and as their commander,
Each playthrough features a selection of characters from a massive pool – learn how individual backstories are tied together and prepare to navigate the unique combinations of each run. Stories unfold in unexpected ways as your squad leaders push from engagement to engagement. Watch them crumble under pressure from a cataclysmic threat, and do your best to train them for the fight against the MENACE.
I'd argue that's what made Battle Brothers so strong. It is also what made Jagged Alliance so interesting: it wasn't an RPG, but in some ways it was more of an RPG than most self-proclaimed RPGs we see nowadays. Having less of that may turn out to be not so good for MENACE in the end. Then again - as some people already mentioned - it did work for Dawn of War and similar games, so maybe they can land on that crowd instead.Even Battle Brothers was only "half-CRPG" or "almost-CRPG" and this one is supposedly even less so.
Love this. Nameless soldiers are essentially hit points for the real characters. So I don't have to worry as much about losing a beloved merc, yet I still get to see high-stakes battles with heavy losses on both sides. Cool design.Each infantry squad is led by a squad leader who also represents the unit in combat and is a distinct character who acts in events and more outside of combat. The size of infantry squads can vary between 1 and 9 elements but will mostly be around 5. The unit shares one health pool, and one element will perish with a certain amount of hit points lost. This will reduce the unit's firepower as more and more fighters drop.
I can't understand why they abandoned BB, because they have a STEADY twitch fanbase and steady playerbase. And for it to grow allyou have to do is to make some DLCs and content. Yet they choose to abandon their most profitable game and develop a new one in a most generic setting with the most generic mechanics. I see a clear repetition of Darkest Dungeon 2 debacle.
They said they wanted to do something new, and I can respect that. I've had periods in my job where I did the same thing for 2-3 years and it can get old. Not like I wouldn't have continued to do it to put food on the table, but it's always been nice when something new came up and I got to learn things.I can't understand why they abandoned BB, because they have a STEADY twitch fanbase and steady playerbase. And for it to grow allyou have to do is to make some DLCs and content. Yet they choose to abandon their most profitable game and develop a new one in a most generic setting with the most generic mechanics. I see a clear repetition of Darkest Dungeon 2 debacle.
Games aren't meant to be developed forever. They are meant to be finished. Games as a service is a modern day abomination.
...which they did?I can't understand why they abandoned BB, because they have a STEADY twitch fanbase and steady playerbase. And for it to grow allyou have to do is to make some DLCs and content. Yet they choose to abandon their most profitable game and develop a new one in a most generic setting with the most generic mechanics. I see a clear repetition of Darkest Dungeon 2 debacle.
*Laughs in Path of Exile, Starcraft, Hearts of Iron IV, EUIV, Stellaris, Farming Simulator, Stardew Valley etc.*
Becasue capitalizing on initial success is for loosers. Successful guys start new franchizes, new games, new titles.
you misspelled "dark omen"So, infantry in Menace is more akin to RTS model; Company of Heroes and Dawn of War come to mind.
You mean "dark women"? Come on, not this again.you misspelled "dark omen"So, infantry in Menace is more akin to RTS model; Company of Heroes and Dawn of War come to mind.
This is why you will lose in Ukraine and everywhere else. Cringe weak loser who plays with digital barbies shooting guns, get cucked to death by better men. It's an HONOR of our generations to CRUSH boomer shabbo scum like you and your jewish lords like Zed Duke of Banville during our lifetimeAlways the case. "Don't you think both sides are just as bad" types somehow always lean very far towards the woke. Concern trolling or whatever they call it.You support one side in the culture war, while pretending to be above it. You try to shame people by acting as if they're ridiculous when they acknowledge that there is a culture war, but we both know that you aren't saying a peep when game devs, politicians, actors etc. etc. sit on twitter and explicitly state that they hate white men. You downplay anything that one side does in this stupid fucking culture war when it's the current year and we know for a fact that it's ideologically motivated.You don't have to participate in a culture "war," friend. You can acknowledge that both sides of the political divide are trying to get you worked up over woke shit and you can wish a pox on both their houses.Now that we're in the middle of a culture war, such things acquire much larger importance.Since their inception computer games had women combatants, and it never was a problem. On the contrary it added to a setting.
You're disingenuous, manipulative and hypocritical. You argue in bad faith. A genuinely awful human being. At least stand for the things you believe in, instead of this manipulative pretending-to-be-neutral bullshit. All of the above applies to anyone else doing this slimy "it's so silly that you get triggered by hearing a woman" act, too. No, it's not hearing a woman that's making people lose interest in the game; it's seeing that the devs are pushing the same tired "strong women in roles that men are logically suited to" propaganda that they've seen a thousand times. They've seen it and they know that it means that the devs are fully infected by the culture war. If you were as neutral as you pretend to be, you'd be just as tired of seeing it.
Anyway, it isn't just that there's muh wahmen.. as always with retarded woke crap, it looks like a circus checklist. Gotta have a nig, gotta have a tranny(esque) and so on. So obvious they're ticking off boxes and it always looks fucking ridiculous.
Your very post proves you are just as bad. You are terribly racist and misogynist.
Fortunately you and your ilk don't represent the right in general, but you make a very good example of how when the SJWs say that the people who oppose them are all racist misogynistic white nationalists, they aren't entirely off the mark.
The more you rant and rave any time some work of fiction is not dominated by white characters conforming to traditional gender roles the more you provide them an easy example to point to to claim they are correct about how terrible the people who disagree with them are.
If you stuck to legitimate criticisms of SJW; adding in racial and gender diversity where it doesn't make much sense (historical settings or changing the race/gender of pre-existing characters), adding pronouns, hamfisted political viewpoints included in settings/narratives to push the SJW agenda, or even unrealistic over representation of homosexuality in more realistic settings; you would be able to make the sort of claims you would like to against the 'both sides are just as bad' argument.
Instead, you push a narrative of white superiority, male superiority, and are against the very idea of diversity or tolerance.
So yes, you are just as bad, dummy.
Although, the cultural left has a much higher percentage of radicals and their radicalism is much more readily accepted, while the radicals of the cultural right, such as yourself, are much less representative of the overall cultural right. Most of those on the cultural right reject your ilk.
Although, these days most of the remaining active culture warriors on the right side of the culture wars do tend towards such radical views. The more moderate ones having been exposed enough to the radicals to have caused a majority of them to have disassociated with it.
Dev Diary #4 - Weapon Types and Stats
Weapons in MENACE: Stats, Strategy, and Firepower.
Happy New Year everyone! In the first Dev Diary of 2025, we will give an overview of weapon types and weapon stats in MENACE, as these are key elements of how the game plays and what the player has to consider when making his decisions before and during the battle.
Squad Weapons and Special Weapons
In MENACE, there are two fundamentally different types of weapons: "squad weapons" and “special weapons.”
Equipping a squad weapon will outfit each individual element of a squad with a copy of this weapon. Supply costs are multiplied accordingly, making a bigger squad more expensive to equip. Squad weapons are regular infantry small arms ranging from shotguns and submachine guns over assault rifles to battle rifles and the like.
As the name suggests, special weapons fulfill more specialized roles upon equipping a special weapon; a single element of the squad exchanges its squad weapon for that special weapon.
Special weapons are generally speaking more cumbersome, specialized, and powerful than squad weapons. Examples would range from rocket launchers over mortars and machine guns to sniper rifles. Oftentimes, a squad will have to deploy and be stationary in order to use heavy weapons.
Ammunition
Of course, ammunition plays an integral role in any simulation of modern combat. Considering the level of abstraction and the scope of action in MENACE, it’s not feasible to count bullets on all individual soldiers in the game.
That's why we decided to go for a hybrid approach. Squad weapons will have unlimited ammo, while special weapons have limited ammo. The same goes for vehicles where a vehicle might have an MG with unlimited ammo and a rocket launcher with just two shots.
That way, we ensure that no unit ever becomes useless (when completely out of ammo) while still making the management of ammo an important part of your strategy.
Of course, ammo can be replenished by various means mid-combat, or the ammo capacity can be increased by certain accessories.
Weapon Skills
All weapons are used through “skills” which they grant to the unit that is wielding it. Most weapon skills are straight-up “attacks”, but there might be some utility to them as well.
As a rule of thumb, squad weapons tend only to have one skill, while special weapons may have multiple. An example would be a mortar that can shoot explosives or smoke grenades.
When using an “attack” skill, each individual element in a unit equipped with the corresponding weapon will fire an amount of shots at the target according to the weapon's fire rate.
Hence, a bigger squad will deliver a lot more shots with their squad weapons than a small squad or a squad that has already taken casualties.
On the other hand, the effectiveness of the squad's special weapon remains pretty much unaffected, even when the squad is smaller.
Weapon Stats
- Trade Value: Like all items, weapons can be traded on the black market. The value of a weapon is mostly based on its rarity.
- Range: This is the maximum range in tiles this weapon can fire, but bear in mind that some attacks might land on or suppress adjacent tiles, effectively increasing their range.
- Hit Point Damage: The base amount of damage one shot of this weapon deals when not stopped by armor or modified in other ways.
- Armor Damage: The amount of damage an armor takes when stopping one shot of this weapon.
- Armor Penetration: This value will be compared with the armor value of the target to calculate the chance to penetrate. A penetration value that is equal to or higher than the armor value will always penetrate.
- Suppression: When a shot hits a target unit, this is the amount of suppression that will be applied per shot. A reduced amount will be applied for shots that miss the unit but hit its tile, and a further reduced amount will be applied when hitting an adjacent tile.
- Elements Hit: The maximum amount of elements in a targeted unit that can be killed by one shot of this weapon. This stat is important to prevent single-shot high-damage attacks from killing multiple elements in one shot.
- Fire Rate: The number of shots the weapon fires with one attack (skill use). Each shot will be calculated individually. If this is a squad weapon, each element of the squad equipped with this weapon will fire the stated amount of shots.
Dropoffs
Dropoffs are an integral part of how weapons work in MENACE.
Just like in reality, shots at long distances will be harder to land and will lose kinetic energy on the way to their target. That’s why we have a bunch of variables affected by drop-offs. First of all, accuracy tends to be reduced over distance.
As all weapons are manufactured to fulfill different roles, this may vary a lot depending on the individual weapon. For example, a submachine gun will be a lot less accurate over long distances than a sniper rifle. At the same time, the sniper rifle will have reduced accuracy in close combat situations.
There is what we call an “ideal range” for each weapon, reflecting its purpose on the battlefield.
Secondly, kinetic weapons will lose force over a distance. This affects damage, armor damage, and armor penetration. This is why distance from the enemy alone protects your squads and increases the effectiveness of your armor.
Of course, there are exceptions to this rule, as weapons work in a lot of different ways. A rocket launcher, for example, will not deal less damage over distance because its primary source of damage is its explosive warhead, not its kinetic energy.
Engage, Explore, and Stay Informed
You can find us on Discord, BlueSky, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, and Reddit for discussions, updates, and feedback. You can also subscribe to our monthly MENACE newsletter on our website — just scroll to the bottom of the page to sign up.
If you missed the previous Dev Diaries, they’re still available.
Dev Diary #2 provided an overview of the strategic part of the game, including the Starmap, operational upgrades (OCIs), and the armory, where you manage and promote your squads.
Dev Diary #3 shifted focus to tactical combat, covering topics like alternating turn orders, unit composition, and how biomes and chunks shape the battlefield. Together, they offer a detailed look at the mechanics that define MENACE and the decisions that await you as a commander.
MENACE AnnouncementFri, December 20, 2024
Dev Diary #2 - Strategic Part Overview
Welcome to our first real dev diary for MENACE. This week we want to give you a first impression of the strategic part of the game.
MENACE AnnouncementFri, December 27, 2024
Dev Diary #3 - Tactical Combat Overview
An In-Depth Look at Missions, Units, and Combat Systems in MENACE.
Dev Diary #5: Next Friday
In next week’s Dev Diary, we’ll delve into the details of squad leaders, their stats, and how equipment slots influence their roles. This will begin a closer look at how squads are structured and adapted for different challenges.
Dev Diary #5: Squad Leaders and Stats
Meet the Squad Leaders of MENACE — they shape battles with unique perks, detailed stats, and distinct roles.
After getting into the details of how squad weapons and special weapons work, we are looking at the second important part: the soldiers wielding those weapons! We will also see what other types of equipment can be brought to the battlefield.
Squad Leaders
There are two fundamentally different character types in MENACE: Squad Leaders and Pilots. In today's diary, we look at the former and keep the latter for a future diary.
What are squad leaders in MENACE?
Any unit you deploy in MENACE features a squad leader acting as its identification figure and its commander on the battlefield. Squad Leaders (short SLs) are handwritten characters with their own backstory and unique perk tree.
Furthermore, they have a set of specific stats reflecting their squad's capabilities. However, being unique doesn't automatically protect the SLs from harm. They can still be killed on the battlefield, so you have to take that into consideration when going for bold moves and suicide missions.
Squad Badges
When a squad loses all elements, the squad leader is “bleeding out.” Other SLs have a short time to head over there and stabilize them. This will make sure they are not dead, but they will still be out of action for a while and recover from their injuries.
Why Written Characters?
From the very start of the project, we had a lot of discussions about whether characters or, in this case, squad leaders should be handwritten or procedurally generated (like in Battle Brothers).
Through procedural generation you can create an infinite amount of different characters, but the possibilities of meaningful dialogue or even character development are very limited or almost nonexistent. There is no persistence in relations or behaviour between the procedural individuals.
On top of that, after a while, the different components of the generation become apparent and recognizable to the player.
For MENACE, the interaction between characters and their reactions to the world is a very important tool for world-building and immersion, as are their opinions on certain topics.
In this regard MENACE takes a lot of influence from games like Jagged Alliance or the old Wing Commander. Characters are written personalities that can still permanently die.
Being able to give the squad leaders actual voices adds a lot of personality and attitude, which is especially important in the setting of MENACE, where a bunch of very different personalities with wildly different backgrounds have to get along.
Of course, the amount of written characters is limited, so if too many die, that means game over.
Squad Leader Stats
Each squad leader has a variety of different skills and characteristics.
- Action Points: Each character has a finite amount of Action Points, or AP, per turn. Any action, like moving a tile or using a skill, costs a certain amount of AP.
- Hitpoints per Element: The amount of damage a unit can take until one of its elements is removed as a casualty. A squad with 10HP and five elements can take a total of 50 damage until it is completely out of action.
- Armor Value: Depends on the armor the squad has equipped. The higher the value, the more penetration an attack needs to deal damage. Armors also have durability that is reduced every time the armor successfully stops a bullet.
- Discipline: Reduces incoming suppression and increases suppression recovery. Moral tests are also done against the discipline of a unit. These have to be succeeded when losing elements, friendly units getting killed, or allies fleeing from the battle. The higher the discipline, the less likely a squad is to become wavering or retreat from the battlefield.
- Accuracy: This determines the chances to hit for all attacks. Accuracy can be reduced by being suppressed by enemy fire and other effects. It can also be improved by deploying.
- Detection: How well the squad can detect hidden/concealed enemy units. This value is subtracted from the enemy’s concealment value.
- View Range: The distance in tiles the squad can see and reveal enemy units that have no concealment. Certain large objects can completely block lines of sight and allow for unrevealed approaches.
- Concealment: How well the squad can stay hidden while in the field of view of enemy units. This is also increased by the environment like forests, buildings, or tall grass. A unit with some concealment that is deployed behind cover can ambush enemies very effectively.
- Unique Starting Perk: Every squad leader starts with one unique perk already unlocked. These are very different between SLs and are designed in a way to make them feel unique and emphasize each individual's character.
- Perk Tree: Each squad leader has their own perk tree that can be unlocked through “promotions.” Not all perks are unique to this character, but the selection and order of unlocks will be different for each.
Engage, Explore, and Stay Informed
That's it for now. Let us know what you think about the Squad Leaders.
You can find us on Discord, BlueSky, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, and Reddit for discussions, updates, and feedback. You can also subscribe to our monthly MENACE newsletter on our website — just scroll to the bottom of the page to sign up.
In next week's Dev Diary we'll talk about "Supplies and Equipment