KickStarter Mechajammer (formerly Copper Dreams) - cyberpunk RPG from Whalenought Studios

[Athelas]

I like what I see, but I think a video showing off more combatants would've done a better job of showing off the strengths of the system, and gotten more people interested and backing. Having one character distract the enemy while another flanks from the side, for example.

 

[Bubbles]

The combat bar shows you the players in combat and their place on the timeline.

Is it co-op or full multiplayer?

 

[ArchAngel]

Not sure if Joe is still awake (he might be) but as far as I know the falling over animation is placeholder and will be replaced by a variety(?) of different types of hit animations that will delay the character in the combat bar.

I also think that a lot of the combat modifiers and stats aren't implemented properly yet which is why a simple encounter like that takes a while. I agree that a 1v1 encounter with a standard like that should be a lot shorter.

Good post. It covers both problems I had with that combat video, falling animations being same for every hit and 1v1 combat lasting too long. If characters can only survive 2-3 direct hits, it would be much better. The player character got hit like 4-5 times and still seemed to perform well.
And if you have the developers ear it would be good move if hit chance was presented next to mouse when mousing over enemy with action you picked to use on him. It will be a bit less realistic but more like Xcom and will attract more players.
Small teams, deadly turn based combat where every action matters, being able to replace dead team members with others, usable (and fairly familiar) UI and you got Xcom fans buying and playing it.

 

[Sensuki]

I don't think they'll end up doing hit chance on mouseover. I'm not 100% against the idea but my understanding is that Whalenought doesn't mind some obfuscation in their games and they like to present things in a P&P way - hit chance is a very computerized thing. There's currently a toggle to show your die roll on execution however, and Whalenought presents that with actual dice (which is their style) / integers.

 

[Bubbles]

Good post. It covers both problems I had with that combat video, falling animations being same for every hit and 1v1 combat lasting too long. If characters can only survive 2-3 direct hits, it would be much better. The player character got hit like 4-5 times and still seemed to perform well.

Well, that's ultimately a problem with the wound system; the way they explain it, you die when you hit your "max number" of a certain type of wound. If getting hit by a gun can fill all tiers of wounds, then it stands to reason that you can get hit and injured half a dozen times or more without dying. If, on the other hand, most gunshots are near-lethal, then you have a balance problem with the wound tiers and reduce the need for the doctor's visit after the mission. This kind of system will require careful balance tweaking, which seemed to be generally absent from SitS. We'll see.

And if you have the developers ear it would be good move if hit chance was presented next to mouse when mousing over enemy with action you picked to use on him. It will be a bit less realistic but more like Xcom and will attract more players.

That would be a lot less useful with this system, since the enemy can often move and you can get hit before executing your order. It would still offer some predictive utility, but it could also confuse the XCOM crowd, who expect "90% hit chance" to mean "this shot will have a 90% chance to hit when I execute it".

 

[ArchAngel]

Good post. It covers both problems I had with that combat video, falling animations being same for every hit and 1v1 combat lasting too long. If characters can only survive 2-3 direct hits, it would be much better. The player character got hit like 4-5 times and still seemed to perform well.

Well, that's ultimately a problem with the wound system; the way they explain it, you die when you hit your "max number" of a certain type of wound. If getting hit by a gun can fill all tiers of wounds, then it stands to reason that you can get hit and injured half a dozen times or more without dying. If, on the other hand, most gunshots are near-lethal, then you have a balance problem with the wound tiers and reduce the need for the doctor's visit after the mission. This kind of system will require careful balance tweaking, which seemed to be generally absent from SitS. We'll see.

And if you have the developers ear it would be good move if hit chance was presented next to mouse when mousing over enemy with action you picked to use on him. It will be a bit less realistic but more like Xcom and will attract more players.

That would be a lot less very useful with this system, since the enemy can often move and you can get hit before executing your order. It would still offer some predictive utility, but it could also confuse the XCOM crowd, who expect "90% hit chance" to mean "this shot will have a 90% chance to hit when I execute it".

Better a bit of confusion than no information. Underrail also had hit chances presented and it was better for it.

Also this a computer game. And in PnP players calculate hit chances by themselves all the time after 1-2 rounds. And then fighting same enemy you know what numbers you face from first action.

 

[ArchAngel]

Realism can be achieved by not having gamey stuff like in new Xcom (stuff like only being able to carry few grenades or not being able to take a medkit from a body of a fallen ally), but giving players some basic information needed for them to make informed choices only makes your computer game better and brings in more players to it.

 

[Infinitron]

If environmental factors really are that dominant for determining accuracy in this game, then instead of hit-chance when mousing over an enemy, you could have some representation of your chance to hit any given location on the map. That would give you the ability to make assessments based on where an enemy might move.

 

[Bubbles]

If environmental factors really are that dominant for determining accuracy in this game, then instead of hit-chance when mousing over an enemy, you could have a representation of your chance to hit any given location on the map. That would give you the ability to make assessments based on where an enemy might move.

I think Sensuki probably has a good assessment of the developers' mindset in this regard. If they want to avoid making an "abstract" game, then filling the screen with numbers every time the player wants to make a choice seems counter productive. Besides, SitS had one of the most obscure and "intuition based" combat systems in recent memory -- no AoE indicators, no to-hit indicators, almost all stats were hidden -- and the fans seemed to like that just fine.

 

[Sensuki]

Copper Dreams should be more user friendly and include more UI feedback, but not to the level of Josh Sawyer's idealized combat transparency, for instance.

As hit dice (ha) are in d8s, it may be nice to know how many d8 you get for a roll/when you qualify for specific d8s. In the version I played those dice were not working correctly. So if there is going to be some kind of to hit feedback I imagine you might see how many d8's you get for a roll, but not a percentage.

 

[ArchAngel]

If environmental factors really are that dominant for determining accuracy in this game, then instead of hit-chance when mousing over an enemy, you could have a representation of your chance to hit any given location on the map. That would give you the ability to make assessments based on where an enemy might move.

Besides, SitS had one of the most obscure and "intuition based" combat systems in recent memory -- no AoE indicators, no to-hit indicators, almost all stats were hidden -- and the fans seemed to like that just fine.

All 5000 of them: http://steamspy.com/app/335120

This game has a potential to do much much better. It just needs to give players a bit more information so they can do informed decisions.

 

[Jrpgfan]

Couldn't they make it optional? Or would it be too hard to implement(as in time/resource consuming)?

 

[Bubbles]

This game has a potential to do much much better. It just needs achievements and trading cards.

Fixed for Steam users.

 

[ArchAngel]

Haha :D

 

[Fenix]

Copper Dreams should be more user friendly and include more UI feedback, but not to the level of Josh Sawyer's idealized combat transparency, for instance.

Whalenought doesn't mind some obfuscation in their games

I didn't understand it before you siad it, but now I suddenly realized - I sick of that "combat transparensy" (just as I realized I sick of traditional expierience system after played Underrail), and I think that immersion in game world is also suffer from this.
Also, clever obfuscation of some game aspects, like in Elona is something I was dreamed about not long ago.

 

[Excidium II]

I don't think they'll end up doing hit chance on mouseover. I'm not 100% against the idea but my understanding is that Whalenought doesn't mind some obfuscation in their games and they like to present things in a P&P way - hit chance is a very computerized thing.

???

What the fuck am I reading

 

[Sensuki]

I stated in a later post that as the hit chance is calculated by rolling d8s, you may be shown how many d8s you get on a roll but not a percentile hit chance. Everything will be either dice or integers.

 

[Excidium II]

I just found the statement that "hit chance is a very computerized thing" p. absurd.

First because it's a computer game to begin wtih, second because of how common percentile dice are in P&P. And systems that switched from it didn't do so because of obfuscation, but for trying to get roll distributions that better simulate things.

 

[Sensuki]

60% / 24K

 

[Sensuki]

Joe responding to a question from @dungeoncrawl on Kickstarter which I think a few people will be interested in

So is this game going to be heavy on story or more of a tactical romp?

I would describe it as heavy on exploration. You could think of it as a combination of replicating p&p-like combat and the different tools and ways you can interact with the world and environment in a point and click adventure game (which is also meant to give you that p&p freedom). There’s a story weaving through the game, and how you’ll be able to influence it is pretty open ended.

Our goal is to give you a hands-off experience to discover conspiracies and hidden agendas to influence your syndicate completely on your own, and give you a character that has the means of doing that. Event-based jobs give structure to the gameplay, but there is a larger game being played by the syndicates and how you discover and influence that is the real story. Dialogue is also more exploration oriented, with a keyword system that acts as a puzzle of sorts.

We'll have more examples of that in an Update!

And to an inSomnia backer, @Zachariah

Weird question, just a little pet peeve i have, when you get new armor for your character do you plan on making it change the character aesthetically? Same with wounds, and other such thingd.

Armor types change a character's appearance. Each potential party member you can get has a unique character model that changes with different armors. That said ,we have a very open ended inventory system that doesn't have slots and allows you to equip most items without limitations. Various smaller equipment won’t necessarily have appearance changes, or would be too small to have a visual.

As for wounds, your party members don't actually lose limbs, (unless they have a robotic arm that currently is unequipped), but enemy deaths will visualize that. If you've rolled a high ailment amount of damage, or crit, whatever body part is hit will be blown off visually, and we have character models with separated limbs just for that reason. That's two things to hide though!

If your characters are heavily wounded we will have various slower walk/limping animations, as well ones for being overloaded with gear. This has character movement speed hindrances as well, of course.

 

[Severian Silk]

Isn't all this jumping going to be bad for the characters' backs/knees? I don't think they'll like that...

 

[CryptRat]

I would describe it as heavy on exploration. You could think of it as a combination of replicating p&p-like combat and the different tools and ways you can interact with the world and environment in a point and click adventure game (which is also meant to give you that p&p freedom). There’s a story weaving through the game, and how you’ll be able to influence it is pretty open ended.

Dialogue is also more exploration oriented, with a keyword system that acts as a puzzle of sorts.

This game will be great.

 

[Lacrymas]

Larian just endorsed Whalenought Studios on *dry heave* Facebook. We should be seeing some kind of increased interest, at least for a little while.

 

[Sensuki]

I was wondering what caused the extra ~1k that I woke up to this morning. Great

I posted it on their facebook as a comment a few days earlier, may not have been the reason they posted it tho

In 2014 it was easier because you could ride on the back of the big Kickstarters from the past couple of years. More difficult to get exposure now, especially if the mainstream press aint interested.

 

[grimace]

Wonder if Whalenought_Joe has seen Shooter Jennings new music video? Perhaps Shooter could tweet the Copper Dreams kickstarter.
http://nerdist.com/shooter-jennings-made-an-insane-80s-cyberpunk-music-video-premiere/